The ASAP Program

[flyf15]

Hey guys, my airline has the ASAP program, but I'm a little confused about what exactly it does.

Say something is reported to ASAP, they deem it meets all the requirements and is covered by the program. Does this mean that the aircrew involved is protected from the FAA and from the airline from any disciplinary action related to that event? It seems kind of confusing in the sense that it says "related to this report"... ie, say you have something like an ATC clearance deviation and in addition to an ASAP report, ATC files a pilot deviation report. Would the ASAP protect you from everything to do with the event, including the pilot deviation report?

And finally, if you're protected by ASAP for an event, is it true that nothing can go on your permanent record? No FAA letters of warning, ...

Thanks much guys, this seems like a valuable resource.... looking forward to understanding it in the case that I have to use it.

 

[regionaltard]

Hey guys, my airline has the ASAP program, but I'm a little confused about what exactly it does.

Say something is reported to ASAP, they deem it meets all the requirements and is covered by the program. Does this mean that the aircrew involved is protected from the FAA and from the airline from any disciplinary action related to that event? It seems kind of confusing in the sense that it says "related to this report"... ie, say you have something like an ATC clearance deviation and in addition to an ASAP report, ATC files a pilot deviation report. Would the ASAP protect you from everything to do with the event, including the pilot deviation report?

And finally, if you're protected by ASAP for an event, is it true that nothing can go on your permanent record? No FAA letters of warning, ...

Thanks much guys, this seems like a valuable resource.... looking forward to understanding it in the case that I have to use it.

ASAP Advisory Circular

 

[FmrFreightDog]

OK.... What'd you do???

 

[flyf15]

OK.... What'd you do???

Got bored and started reading my FOM. Big mistake.

 

[flyf15]

This is the part I'm confused about.... It seems to say here, if something happens and you're not the only one talking about it (such as my example of an ATC pilot deviation report), you can still get an FAA investigation, letter of warning, enforcement action, etc. Does this mean that the ASAP doesn't protect you from anything that others, such as the FAA or your company, already know (or will know) about?

Administrative Action. Notwithstanding the criteria in paragraph 205 of FAA Order 2150.3A, possible noncompliance with 14 CFR disclosed in a non-sole-source ASAP report that is covered under the program and supported by sufficient evidence will be addressed with administrative action (i.e., a FAA Warning Notice or FAA Letter of Correction, as appropriate). Sufficient evidence means evidence gathered by an investigation not caused by, or otherwise predicated on, the individual’s safety-related report. There must be sufficient evidence to prove the violation, other than the individual’s safety-related report. In order to be considered sufficient evidence under ASAP, the ERC must determine through consensus that the evidence (other than the individual’s safety-related report) would likely have resulted in the processing of a FAA enforcement action had the individual’s safety-related report not been accepted under ASAP. Accepted non sole-source reports for which there is not sufficient evidence will be closed with a FAA Letter of No Action.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

This is the part I'm confused about.... It seems to say here, if something happens and you're not the only one talking about it (such as my example of an ATC pilot deviation report), you can still get an FAA investigation, letter of warning, enforcement action, etc. Does this mean that the ASAP doesn't protect you from anything that others, such as the FAA or your company, already know (or will know) about?

Administrative Action. Notwithstanding the criteria in paragraph 205 of FAA Order 2150.3A, possible noncompliance with 14 CFR disclosed in a non-sole-source ASAP report that is covered under the program and supported by sufficient evidence will be addressed with administrative action (i.e., a FAA Warning Notice or FAA Letter of Correction, as appropriate). Sufficient evidence means evidence gathered by an investigation not caused by, or otherwise predicated on, the individual’s safety-related report. There must be sufficient evidence to prove the violation, other than the individual’s safety-related report. In order to be considered sufficient evidence under ASAP, the ERC must determine through consensus that the evidence (other than the individual’s safety-related report) would likely have resulted in the processing of a FAA enforcement action had the individual’s safety-related report not been accepted under ASAP. Accepted non sole-source reports for which there is not sufficient evidence will be closed with a FAA Letter of No Action.

Pretty much the same "get out of jail free" criteria as with the NASA report. Basically, self-disclosure will not incriminate you and will insulate you from the full wrath of the FAA. However, if you're reporting a slip up that somebody else could also be reporting (like an altitude deviation) you may not be totally protected. Kind of like a condom somebody may or may not have poked holes in. Not the best protection in the world, but if it's all you've got it's better than testing the waters totally unprotected.

By the way, NEVER read the FOM. It can only lead to confusion.

In all seriousness, there are no true "get out of jail free cards" that I know of. ASAP typically provides better protection than a NASA form assuming your company has a decent working relationship with their POI. The line of thinking is that the FAA will not persecute the line pilot who made an honest mistake and participated in the ASAP program because they realize the contributions ASAP makes to aviation safety makes us all safer as a whole. However, if you manage to do something criminal or otherwise egregious, don't expect to be able to hide behind ASAP.

 

[flyf15]

What are these administrative action items that it mentions? Do either of these go onto your permanent record? I'm not sure if an ASAP "FAA Warning Notice" is the same as a Letter of Warning that is referenced when talking about FAA enforcement action.

addressed with administrative action (i.e., a FAA Warning Notice or FAA Letter of Correction, as appropriate)

 

[8AF]

If it is non-sole source, say the ATC wrote you up, that's administrative actions - letters of warning or letter of correction etc. It stays in your file for 2 yrs then removed. However, if you did not file ASAP you will get ENFORCEMENT action - suspension, revocation.
I have filed several myself; they were sole source meaning no one wrote me up. Got a electronic response and that's the end of it; never had a problem. Of course you only use ASAP for inadverdent mistakes and you have to file within 24 hrs.

 

[flyf15]

Alright, so you can still get something on your record and have to check yes on the "Letters of warning, etc" question on employment applications if you fill out an ASAP form.

Also, another question I have, say my captain fills out one, am I correct in understanding that as long as my name is placed on his, I am awarded all of the same protection as if I filled out my own?

 

[I'veGot2Words]

Alright, so you can still get something on your record and have to check yes on the "Letters of warning, etc" question on employment applications if you fill out an ASAP form.

Also, another question I have, say my captain fills out one, am I correct in understanding that as long as my name is placed on his, I am awarded all of the same protection as if I filled out my own?

You do not have to ckeck yes on employment applications. ASAP reports are completely confidential. The ERC does not know the names or flight numbers of any event submitted into the ASAP program. This is for your protection. The only people who even know YOU submitted an ASAP is probably a couple of interns. Also as long as your captain includes your employee # on the report you are covered as well. And as far as the 24 hour rule goes, it is 24 hours after learning of the violation. Lets say you realize the next day you violated a reg, as long as it was not an intenional violation of a FAR you will still be covered. Best bet, when in doubt, submit an ASAP. There is no limit on how many you can submit and its the best form of protection there is. Who cares if a couple of interns know your name and employee # by heart.

 

[IDEtoNJA]

Please check with your own specific ASAP program about the filling time frame, as well as, if one ASAP report will cover the whole crew or just the filling pilot.

It depends on the ASAP program. Some have 24 hours and some have 48 hours and so forth. Secondly, under certain ASAP programs one report for the whole crew is sufficient for some it isn't. So please check the specific program that covers you.

Also, please remember to file a report for any safety concern; not only the ones for which you might be in violation of a reg or sop.

 

[8AF]

Each person has to file one at the airline I'm working at.

 

[millhouse21]

A letter of warning issued via ASAP will not be released by the FAA as part of a PRIA request. Of course, it's still up to you whether to answer honestly but the FAA will not tell. I learned this from a very senior FAA official who was conducting an audit of our ASAP program.

Also, if you get a letter of warning, it means that you would have had a violation/suspension of ASAP had not been around. A NASA report only protects you from the enforcement but you still have a violation on your record. A Letter of Warning is NOT a violation.

 

[sinkrate]

We have had ASAP a short time and are still learning how to use it. Either ASAP or an ASRS report will protect you from FAA penalties. As it evolves one of the key differences at this airline is that an ASAP report also gives you some protection from company santions, an ASRS report doesn't. No more removing you from duty and shipping you to the SIM for a nut busting PC because you had an altitude bust or runway incursion. If the ERC accepts the report they determine the course of action, not the CP. The ERC can reccomend a PC but it is rare.

 

[Mr Wu]

One thing to remember is that the FAA does not have to accept your ASAP report so you better be filling out a NASA form for every ASAP report you file.

 

[rjacobs]

At XJT our ASAP reports are used for everything: declare an emergency-ASAP, bird strike-ASAP, altitude deviation-ASAP, lots of other stuff-ASAP. 24 hours to report. As long as the whole crews employee numbers are on the report only one needs to be filed. If it is a sole source ASAP i.e. you are the only person putting something in nothing can happen-it cant incriminate you. If it is a dual source i.e. you and ATC(or somebody else) submit a report than things change and it depends on the seriousness of what happened. Also I believe the ASAP program supercedes the NASA ASRS program when your airline has it in place so no need to fill out an ASRS form as well, I may be/probably am wrong on that.

 

[rickair7777]

Alright, so you can still get something on your record and have to check yes on the "Letters of warning, etc" question on employment applications if you fill out an ASAP form.

Also, another question I have, say my captain fills out one, am I correct in understanding that as long as my name is placed on his, I am awarded all of the same protection as if I filled out my own?

Depends on the company...at mine BOTH have to fill one out.

Roughly, an FAA approved ASAP program is a company-run nasa form. It does the same thing that a NASA form does:

Sole Source (no one else reports the violation): Your report is used for statistics only.

Non-sole Source (FAA or company finds out from someone else): You can get investigated and violated, but certificate action will be not taken (no revocation/suspension).

What an ASAP does that a NASA does not: Protects you from the company...In the event of a non-sole source incident they can investigate, re-train, discipline, and even suspend you, but you will not be fired if a valid ASAP is submitted.

If I do an ASAP, I do a parallel NASA form just to be extra sure of my certificates.

 

[twighead]

be warned. ASAP is not the same thing as a NASA report.

furthermore, as far as i can tell, the only thing that the ASAP program has gotten us at PDT is a couple of the most rediculous additions to our checklist that you have ever seen.

 

[flyf15]

All this about not being able to be fired.... I'm currently a probationary pilot. Say the worst happens and I'm involved in a non-sole source incident but I submit a valid ASAP. Does the fact that I'm probationary change anything about their ability to fire me over the incident?

 

[Speedtape]

All this about not being able to be fired.... I'm currently a probationary pilot. Say the worst happens and I'm involved in a non-sole source incident but I submit a valid ASAP. Does the fact that I'm probationary change anything about their ability to fire me over the incident?

If you are on probation, you can be terminated for anything or nothing at all. Your employment until the end of your probation is at the discretion of the company. Once off probation, if you work in a "right to work" state, you can still be terminated for no reason unless you are protected by a collective bargaining unit--Union.

Non sole source reports can still be brought into the ASAP program with the same protections if the 3 person committee accepts the report under the program. Even if a person does not initially file an ASAP report, under certain circumstances, the affected person can be invited to participate by the 3 person committee within a stated limited time period, should someone else involved in the same incident make the report and you were implicated. The reason would be that the 3 person committee deems your input important to their study and recommendation. Should this offer not be accepted, you can be assured that you will receive a letter of investigation from the FAA since one of the persons on the 3 man board is an FAA inspector from your local office.

ASAP programs are standard throughout the industry in theory, because most use the boiler plate model and Memorandum of Understanding that the FAA provides to conduct the program. This allows for quicker implementation and some form of standardization. A Company that has an ASAP program benefits because the FAA gives the company relief on fines by either completely eliminating fines or mitigating them to a very low cost level depending on circumstances. In addition, by tracking and assessing trends, the company can recognize savings by changing processes or procedures to reduce accidents/incidents and possibly other economic wasteful activities.

This committee can also prescribe remedies at the conclusion of their review. In the case of a pilot, this could involve some form of additional training which could include training in a simulator. The remedy has to be unanimously agreed on by the 3 person board.