Comair / DL merger?

[FDJ2]

You Sir, are the one confused! My statement still stands.

My CMR MEC or pilots never denied or encouraged denial of employment opportunity for ALPA (DL or others) furloughed pilots.

Yes, your union did. Your shame has caused you to suffer from denial. That's understandable. The first step to recovery is to take responsibility for the shameful conduct you and your MEC displayed. Next time you see a Delta pilot, just apologize. It will do you good.

 

[ultrarunner]

A unions strength, in theory, is in "unified" numbers. I use the third word and 8th word loosly, as recent history has shown.

With that being said, I can't imaging DAL would actually WANT to make ANY union on property larger than it has to be, let alone the pilot union.

I would expect Comair to simply be spun off at some point.

My 2 cents.

 

[NAAPilot]

Wow, this just never ends. As a former Comair pilot I personally was ashamed of the stance our MEC took towards the furloughed Delta pilots. For that I apologize. However, before I left Comair I flew with 2 different furloughed Delta pilots. Apparently the policy changed and 99% of the Comair pilots I know were happy to have them.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Wow, this just never ends. As a former Comair pilot I personally was ashamed of the stance our MEC took towards the furloughed Delta pilots. For that I apologize. However, before I left Comair I flew with 2 different furloughed Delta pilots. Apparently the policy changed and 99% of the Comair pilots I know were happy to have them.

Would these 2 mystery Delta pilots that flew at Comair on furlough please stand up.....

Comair people get their rep from their REPS.........their little resolution about not hiring Delta pilots on furlough......unfortunately tags them all.....

I won't forget......

 

[atrdriver]

Once again the propagandists have won. If you say something enough times it eventually becomes true. Comair pilots were never against the hiring of furloughed pilots whether they were DAL furloughed or any other airline. Comair MANAGEMENT had a policy of requiring seniority resignation from furloughed pilots before they would hire them. That provision applied to any airline, not just DAL. General Lee and the boys keep pounding the drum insisting CMR pilots were to blame and now people believe it. Goebbels would be proud of you.

I find it interesting that DAL pilots want to hold a management decision against the CMR pilots when it suits their agenda, but OTOH, they want amnesty from their managements decision to not offer reciprocal jumpseat agreements. Pretty inconsistent if you ask me.

And yet, through all that time, the CMR MEC never, NOT ONCE, proposed a resolution stating that they supported the hiring of furloughed DAL pilots WITHOUT them having to give up their seniority numbers. The ASA MEC did, and management changed their policy for the furloughed DAL guys. Guess that part is a little too easy to forget, huh?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

And yet, through all that time, the CMR MEC never, NOT ONCE, proposed a resolution stating that they supported the hiring of furloughed DAL pilots WITHOUT them having to give up their seniority numbers. The ASA MEC did, and management changed their policy for the furloughed DAL guys. Guess that part is a little too easy to forget, huh?

Amen Brother.....

ASA got it right.......help when help is needed.....it will be someday be rewarded and a deep thank you from those who took advantage of your pilot group's offer......

You guys (ASA) need help walking a picket line?? You got me on the list if you are asking.....

probably won't help cause the COMAIR rouge will probably take another pay cut or freeze so they can get more jets.......

Good luck to you ASA types in negotiations and thanks!!!

Bill

Hey Comair......"Ya feel that Sting big boy??? That's pride F-ing with ya!!!"
Name that movie.....

 

[FlyComAirJets]

While there may have been a couple casual invitations in the past, I witnessed at least three separate crews casually using our lounge as if it was their own. Nobody invited them...they acted like it was an entitlement and business as usual. We have had many many regional crews flying for Delta out of LGA over the years but this is a fairly recent development. I realize Comair does not provide a lounge for you in LGA, but that is something for you to work out with your company. If we had a large facility there, I don't think anyone would mind. This lounge is hardly large enough for us already and the extra traffic and noise is not welcome. I don't think you'd want 100 DAL pilots hanging out in your lounge in CVG...thats a comparable example to the CMR presence in LGA. Mesa doesn't use our lounge...ACA never did. You should have your own area.

Many of us have voiced our objections through proper chanels...apparently your flight ops has been advised, but yet the situation continues. Delta put up a sign that says Delta Employees Only but nobody seems to notice or care.

I am sad to say that I never said anything at the time because I didn't think I'd be able to say anything that wouldn't elevate to an argument. Reality is much different than an anonymous bulletin board, perhaps I'll get the chance for a dialogue next time... or perhaps someone with more courage and tact than I will tackle the issue.

So when you have long sits in Detroit, do you hang out in the Northwest pilot lounge? How about the SWA lounge in Vegas? I thought not. Its not appopriate and you should not be there.

Real proud of your little snit, are you?

Reminds me of twenty years ago when we had a four hour sit in ORD. Delta had a crew lounge under the L concourse, I think it was called, probably a holdover from the old C&S days. Seems even then you guys had a problem with a couple Bandit pilots hanging out in the biggest crew lounge I have ever seen before or since. Some things never change.

This might be news to you but Delta bought Comair six years ago, or hadn't you heard? If you want to hang out at our quadruple wide, feel free, I'll even buy you a cookie.

Grow up.

 

[Pat Fabin]

I am not proud of my little 'snit'. You can't honestly tell me that you think you should be able to use other airlines crew rooms on a regular basis. Delta bought CMR and ASA in 2000...and you guys are the only ones that can't get it through your skulls that it means nothing...you are not Delta pilots. Period.

I used to work for a wholly-owned subsidiary (two of them) and we knew where we belonged. No superiority thing...its just inappropriate to hang out in another pilots group's lounge.

You know it...and so does everyone else.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Real proud of your little snit, are you?

Reminds me of twenty years ago when we had a four hour sit in ORD. Delta had a crew lounge under the L concourse, I think it was called, probably a holdover from the old C&S days. Seems even then you guys had a problem with a couple Bandit pilots hanging out in the biggest crew lounge I have ever seen before or since. Some things never change.

This might be news to you but Delta bought Comair six years ago, or hadn't you heard? If you want to hang out at our quadruple wide, feel free, I'll even buy you a cookie.

Grow up.

You aren't a Delta Pilot, period, no matter who bought you guys.........

Stay out of the LGA lounge........

 

[flyboyike]

Since the issue of flow-through agreements came up in this thread, I thought I would ask for some clarification. Being in the airline industry less than a year, there are some things about those agreements I don't quite understand, so I was hoping some of you more experienced folks could clear them up for me.

Suppose I am Ubergargantuan Airlines and I have a flow-through agreement with Joseph Bleaux Air, whereupon I've agreed to hire JBA pilots once they got to a certain experience level or whatnot. Both my pilots and JBA pilots are ALPA. The question that I have is how such an agreement would be enforced in real life. Let's say that I woke up one day and decided not to give any preferential treatment to any JBA guys. What happens then? Does JBA sue me? Do JBA pilots sue me? Do my pilots go on strike against me? If it's the latter, has this ever happened? I can't seem to think of a case, where a pilot group went on strike to benefit another pilot group. So, I guess I'm trying to understand how any such arrangement would play out in real life.

No, this is not flamebait, I'm new and I'm curious.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

I am not proud of my little 'snit'. You can't honestly tell me that you think you should be able to use other airlines crew rooms on a regular basis. Delta bought CMR and ASA in 2000...and you guys are the only ones that can't get it through your skulls that it means nothing...you are not Delta pilots. Period.

I used to work for a wholly-owned subsidiary (two of them) and we knew where we belonged. No superiority thing...its just inappropriate to hang out in another pilots group's lounge.

You know it...and so does everyone else.

What kind of plantation mentality is that?

No, we do not hang out in the Northwest pilot lounge in Detroit. Of course, we are not owned by them either.

It is rather frightening that people like you are operating heavy machinery.

 

[Pat Fabin]

As soon as I hit SUBMIT REPLY, I knew that would not sound right, so I apologize for that.

I have to partially blame Delta for removing most of our visible flight ops staff from the mainline side of LGA...I doubt this would be happening then.

I've said my piece. Meanwhile we'll keep working on this problem from our end...and you guys know you should not be there. Quit pretending you work someplace you don't.

 

[Caveman]

And yet, through all that time, the CMR MEC never, NOT ONCE, proposed a resolution stating that they supported the hiring of furloughed DAL pilots WITHOUT them having to give up their seniority numbers. The ASA MEC did, and management changed their policy for the furloughed DAL guys. Guess that part is a little too easy to forget, huh?

First we were allegedly against hiring DAL guys, now we didn't do enough. Did Frontier, SWA, Alaska or any number of other airlines approach their management asking for a special dispensation for DAL pilots? If they did, great. If they didn't why aren't you guys all over them about it? What's so special about Comair that we are being singled out from every other airline because we didn't ask for special treatment for DAL pilots? We asked for and got special treatment for ALL furloughed ALPA pilots. What's so special about the DAL pilots? Name me one other airline other than ASA that specifically asked for special treatment for DAL pilots. Why aren't you giving AWA (or fill in any other airline for that matter) crap about this? They didn't do anything to promote the hiring of DAL guys either. Why is Comair being singled out?

Comair never did anything to stop, prevent or oppose the hiring of DAL furloughees or any other furloughee. Furloughed ALPA pilots were, at the suggestion of Comair pilots, given preferential hiring. All pilots were asked to resign their seniority at their previous carriers. Comair is in the majority when it requires pilots to resign their seniority from their previous employers. Stop trying to spin this into something it isn't. There were no differences between Comair's hiring practices and the majority of the airlines in the US. ASA chose a different and unique path. Good for them. That does not equate to Comair actively opposing the DAL furloughees.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

First we were allegedly against hiring DAL guys, now we didn't do enough. Did Frontier, SWA, Alaska or any number of other airlines approach their management asking for a special dispensation for DAL pilots? If they did, great. If they didn't why aren't you guys all over them about it? What's so special about Comair that we are being singled out from every other airline because we didn't ask for special treatment for DAL pilots? We asked for and got special treatment for ALL furloughed ALPA pilots. What's so special about the DAL pilots? Name me one other airline other than ASA that specifically asked for special treatment for DAL pilots. Why aren't you giving AWA (or fill in any other airline for that matter) crap about this? They didn't do anything to promote the hiring of DAL guys either. Why is Comair being singled out?

Comair never did anything to stop, prevent or oppose the hiring of DAL furloughees or any other furloughee. Furloughed ALPA pilots were, at the suggestion of Comair pilots, given preferential hiring. All pilots were asked to resign their seniority at their previous carriers. Comair is in the majority when it requires pilots to resign their seniority from their previous employers. Stop trying to spin this into something it isn't. There were no differences between Comair's hiring practices and the majority of the airlines in the US. ASA chose a different and unique path. Good for them. That does not equate to Comair actively opposing the DAL furloughees.

THIS SPELLS IT OUT...FROM MASTER AND COMMANDER LAWSON.....We'll help out those in need if we can GAIN from it...........not the spirit of an association......feel shorted by DALPA??? don't ever take it out on a furloughee...............(SEE BELOW).......y'all point fingers about being wholly-owned when you want to come to our lounge in LGA but are willing to distance yourself when a out-of-work pilot needs help............you would be a lot more welcome in the lounge if you hadn't tried to use furloughees as a pawn...................

"Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.

 

[Caveman]

Answer the questions Lumberg. Why aren't you attacking all the other airlines that had the same policy as Comair? Some of them didn't even have a preferential policy for ALPA furloughees and you are conveniently silent about it. Where's your outrage at Alaska? Frontier? Republic? AirTran? If you want to have a hard-on for Comair pilots that's your choice, just don't try and justify it based on some urban internet myth. Just admit you have an emotionly based bias towards Comair. There was no effort by Comair pilots to deny DAL furloughees a job at Comair. That's the truth. You know it and I know it. You can keep trying to spin it all you want because you have an agenda trying to justify being pissed off at Comair. Your MEC lied to you about this and you bought it hook, line and sinker. Instead of calling Burgey on it you have chosen to take it out on the Comair guys and gals. Grow up and admit you were wrong about this. You didn't have the facts. Our MEC's stand on this is in writing and is posted above. We supported the preferential hiring of all furloughed ALPA pilots, including DAL. Go ahead. Read it again. It's still there.

Some of you have made up your minds and to hell with the facts.

 

[stratus72]

I only bring this up because of all the ranting on this site.

Had a Delta pilot on our flight the other day. He checked in up front and I asked how things were going at Delta. He then proceeded to rip on Comair pilots...cursing, etc...the whole 9 yards. I politely told him I just came from Comair. He shut his mouth at that point and proceeded to the back. Not even 10 minutes later this tool had the nerve to give the FA's a hard time because they wouldn't comp him free tv.

How entitled do you "mighty" Delta pilots think you are? It's not just on this board, but out in the real world, I hear more complaints about the attitude of Delta pilots. Needless to say, your buddy won't be jumpseating with us anytime soon.

I realize there are a lot of good natured pilots at Delta, but the number of pricks seems to be growing. Do the majority of Delta pilots rant and rave like the same guys who post on here daily? By the way, speaking of furlough support, what about our strike? The Delta pilots I came across treated me like crap...showed little to no support during our hard time. In addition, during the strike I know we received ALPA strike benefits. I appreciate the fact that you contributed. Aside from that minute amount of money, we had another fund set up for families having financial difficulties. Just about every airline out there contributed. Delta was a far "dead last" in the amount donated. United, American, regionals, etc... put in far more than you. Not a big deal... you can do whatever you want with you money. However, that was a sign to us. So, I won't forget that either.

Delta guys act as if they never do wrong. Open your eyes!


Stratus

 

[N2264J]

Had a Delta pilot on our flight the other day. He checked in up front and I politely asked how things were going at Delta. He then proceeded to rip on Comair pilots...cursing, etc...

Funny, I've never encountered that type of behavior when they're asking for my jumpseat.

Even Bill Lumberg, 737 Pylt and Generally makes nice while they're asking for my jumpseat.

When we filed the PID, we heard the "...commuter pilots just aren't qualified" argument. We always seem to be qualified enough when they're jumpseating home, however.

 

[stratus72]

Nor had I. Just got me thinking.

 

[ultrarunner]

Hey Stratus, what on earth was he ripping on the Comair guys for? If memory serves, they are the ONE AND ONLY unionized pilot group in the last 6 years to actually have the ba11s to stand up for what they believed in as opposed to bending over a desk and taking it doggie-style like their counter parts.

While I'm not a chest-pounding union man, you must always have respect for someone that will walk a line for ZERO pay while standing up for what they believe in (even if it's misguided). You should have asked that DAL pilot how many days he's walked the line at DAL vs. how many times he's bent over that desk taking it up the A$$.

 

[stratus72]

Ultrarunner,


Yeah, I just bit my tongue. My CA was pissed though. Again, I know there are some fine folks flying for Delta. Nonetheless, this guy was a jerk. My CA said he's heard of only 3 occassions this year where a jumpseater was out of line. Guess what? All 3 were Delta. Funny thing is my CA was a navy pilot and most of his friends are at Delta. So, there was no ill will on his part...he wouldn't be making this stuff up.

 

[737 Pylt]

Nor had I. Just got me thinking.

Or flaming!
So instead of bringing it up to your JS committee, you ran right here to flightinfo and posted it!uke:
I call complete BS to your story!
Matter of fact, when I was at a party the other week, I ran into some friends who I haven't seen in a few years. They told me there was another "Delta Pilot here." I went over and introduced myself to him and politely asked his base and eqp. When he told me he was based in CVG and flew the "Canadair," I had to laugh, & politely told him "DELTA didn't fly the Canadair!"
You guys can flame all you want. For every BS story you have, I have 10!
BTW, I NEVER have nor will I bring the jumpseat into this!

737

 

[ultrarunner]

I hear ya Status. Throwing someone off a plane for stuff like that can quickly set the tone for what will and will not be tolerated when asking for a free ride!

 

[N2264J]

BTW, I NEVER have nor will I bring the jumpseat into this!

I rest my case.

 

[737 Pylt]

I rest my case.

Exactly. See we can agree on at least 1 thing!

737

 

[stratus72]

737,


I could care less what you find as fact or BS. Geeze man, you must monitor this site 24/7.

I find nothing wrong with posting what I did. Let me ask you a question? Did I post the names of the 3 pilots? NO!!!!!! Did i go out of my way to say that there are a lot of good people flying for Delta? YES!

Again, get over yourself.


Stratus

 

[ultrarunner]

Stratus, don't get yourself all worked up over someone that doesn't know any better.

 

[737 Pylt]

737,


I could care less what you find as fact or BS. Geeze man, you must monitor this site 24/7.

I find nothing wrong with posting what I did. Let me ask you a question? Did I post the names of the 3 pilots? NO!!!!!! Did i go out of my way to say that there are a lot of good people flying for Delta? YES!

Again, get over yourself.


Stratus

Must have some sort of truth nerve!

737

 

[stratus72]

Ultrarunner,

Yeah, we let him fly with us. The CA said he was going to talk to him when we landed. This pilot is not banned from Frontier...far from it. I just think he wasmmighty uncomfortable when approached.

All Delta pilots are welcome.

 

[stratus72]

737,


Yaaaaaaaaaawn.



Stratus

 

[NAAPilot]

Lumberg, well I am going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there. Just because you havent heard of those furloughed Delta pilots that WERE flying at Comair doesnt mean they dont exist. Do some research and i'm sure you can get the names. In the mean time enjoy your anger.