AWA NC poke in the eye

[Contract]

Git Git Git Get it On....................

 

[Contract]

You guys need to get a life......I guess that would include me as well since Im reading and engaging on this forum.....Bottom line....Enjoy yourselves.....Dont worry about the things in life you have no control over. Just Enjoy Life...Who really gives a damn as to what happens to Jonnys Sisters Step Brother. You Got it....I hope so. In the End,,,,,we will all be screwed to a certain degree in order to make it fair for all. Enjoy the Screw.

 

[MCDU]

Aren't there pilots at AMR and Continental that never interviewed at those majors. Like the Reno guys. Did Eagle and Express guys go through the interview process during their flow through? I hate to say it, but those CEL pilots seem to me legit. They flew E 170 for US Air and should be considered on the seniority list. They interviewed for their Job and qualified as a pilot for the USair group. If these guys would get dropped, I think we are all doomed.

This all reminds me when we at United ruined Air Wisconsin after we purchased them. Those pilots got hosed and I am sorry on how we treated those ALPA pilots flying those 146's ATP 's and Dashes. History should not repeat itself.

Peace
Marty

 

[PHXFLYR]

Just in case you dont know, The EX CEL pilots that are on the Airways list have been there since 2004. Long before the West "saved Airways".[/quote]


Define "there" for me. Is it USAir as a new hire pilot flying a Group 2 aircraft who had to run the HR interview gauntlet like you. Or is it a wholly owned pilot (nothing wrong with that ..I was one for 10 years myself ) who got a position with yet another wholly owned subsidary that operated on the USAir Certificate that was the result of a negotiated agreement between the USAir MEC and the wholly owned MEC's? If it were indeed the latter,I would
have to say that he isn't a USAir pilot in the traditional sense. He got his job because of the negotiated agreement between the 2 MECs.

PHXFLYR

 

[TWA Dude]

The Airways negotiators are asking for DOH, that would not eliminate anyone!

Such naivete! Furloughs come from the bottom of the list. A DOH integration makes AWA pilots USA's furlough fodder. Why would we agree to that?

why can't we (aaa/awa) just come to an agreement where the former CEL guys just get tacked to the bottom?

That may very well happen. Currently it's just openers being presented to the arbitrator. There'll be considerable give-and-take down the road as Nicolau hints which way he's leaning.

 

[Little Bubba]

Why do you want to work for AWA? I rather flip burgers with a bunch of mexicans at Wendys.

 

[Gofish]

ehhhh nevermind

 

[Saabslime]

Why do you want to work for AWA? I rather flip burgers with a bunch of mexicans at Wendys.

Would you like fries with that flame? What a loser:erm:

 

[sloan]

We haven't proven that we can be a major pilot. In the last 20 years ALG/PDT/PSA has not had any accident, of many did mainline had?
Why don't you get in my shoes for one day and fly 8 legs in S**T weather flying 20 year old worn out airplane with 500 F/O, where you can't get fuel, can get bags, can't get any ramper to get your GPU, the realease is always wrong, you had 4 swap, you finish your day at 11pm in the Fog after flying a circle vor in HHH with a 3000 foot runways, with an MEL A/P and MEL Yaw Damper.
Until you can do that day in day out you haven't proven that you are worthy of being a regional pilot, so stick your arrogance where the sun doesn't shine.

You are the arrogant one. What do you think TWA dude did in his previous life? Relax Fella!!

 

[trainer8]

Keep the Jumpseat out of it... that's not a place to wage battle (unless they're a scab).

The jumpseat is a great educational seat. I have never turned a jumpseater down when I could take him and will continue to offer the jumpseat to anyone qualified to occupy it. But, once we are out of sterile cockpit, I use it as an opportunity to educate a captive audience. I have no trouble using "specific words" to do that.

What the AWA pilots are seeking is unprescedented in ALPA history. There are an abundance of hiring situations where pilots do not use the "standard" hiring interview process. Reno, Eagle, Delta-Pan-Am, American-TWA, US Shuttle-Trump, are some that come to mind.

AWA leadership is seeking to end the careers of 100 pilots. What you have is one group of pilots from another company seeking to remove pilots at another company because the event of a merger and the way they (CEL pilots) came on the property. In that process, they are using a false accusation about "qualifications" to prop up their argument.

Call it rhetoric, call it negotiating tactics...whatever. Regardless, we get to see into the heart of the pilot group. The AAA position doesn't seek to end anyone's career by removing them from the Seniority List.

Arbitrator Nicolau will ultimately decide. I'm hoping he sees through the charade and concentrates on more important issues.

T8

 

[Sig]

You are the arrogant one. What do you think TWA dude did in his previous life? Relax Fella!!

I know the guy personally- he's one of the best. He's far from arrogant, too. Our day to day is exactly as he explained it; reading somewhere that our grind isn't "experience" is tough to take, regardless of why it's said.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I copied and edited this from the Regional board. It bears repeating here:

The AWA Pilot's elected leaders believe that if you are a Regional Airline Pilot, you are not qualified to be a Major Airline pilot.
Of course, that is bull excrement as many pilots from the regional airline ranks are hired by major airlines, including AWA.
I will have "specific" words for the next AWA pilot who requests the jumpseat.

Dude....relax, the merger comittee can't possibly take the opinions of a couple of thousand pilots and make them into one for an arbitration hearing. Their attorney is trying to make the best possible case for them in front of the arbitrator....don't take it personal.

Please re-think the jumpseat thing...I'll bet that pilot asking for the J/S didn't have anything to do with the preparation of that argument. Sheesh....some guys really like to make the J/S their own personal soapbox....If you do decide to use your J/S to get even with a AWA pilot....no doubt your "professionalism" will somehow come through.

Are you the kind that beileves all political rhetoric during a campaign?

Tejas

 

[Carl S.]

Keep it simple, if you flew a plane without "EXPRESS" on the side ,you stay or else you go back to planes that say "EXPRESS" and stop padding the list.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Such naivete! Furloughs come from the bottom of the list. A DOH integration makes AWA pilots USA's furlough fodder. Why would we agree to that?

At this point all agreement is out the window. It's all about making the best argument in front of Mr Nicolau. YOu may not "agree" with his decision....but you will work under that decision for the rest of your career....unless you take a walk.

Don't get emotional about all this.....I've seen it before, and any and all web board and/or Jumpseat "discussions" on the subject will have absolutely no bearing on the outcome....believe me...it's true...really, it is...

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

The jumpseat is a great educational seat. I have never turned a jumpseater down when I could take him and will continue to offer the jumpseat to anyone qualified to occupy it. But, once we are out of sterile cockpit, I use it as an opportunity to educate a captive audience. I have no trouble using "specific words" to do that.

If its me....I get my education in ground school, thank you very much.

"Specific words" to educate me? Are you kidding??? My answer is...."Dude...errrr...Capt Dude, we aren't gonna get this settled in this cockpit so lets use the limited breath we have to talk about that good looking F/A working this flight....is she married?"

Tejas

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Couldn't one make the same argument about integrating the USAir/America West seniority lists? I knew a number of guys, (especially civilian-trained) who went to AWA only after being turned down by most of the legacy carriers...including US Air.

(Before you pick up that cue stick buddy, relax. I also knew guys who went to AWA because they liked living in the PHX area, wanted the quick upgrade, or had military retirement income and didn't need the money. You AWA guys are pros in my book, no matter where you got your experience.)

I wonder if the DAL guys will trot this horse out if/when they're negotiating a meger of seniority lists with AWA?

The left seat is a bully-pulpit of the first-order, and should be wielded with great care. I assume that anybody in my jump seat needs a ride, not an education. If they want to know how I feel about a subject, they can read it here. Otherwise, they're my guest, and I do everything I can to make them feel welcome in my cockpit and to get them where they're going.

 

[TWA Dude]

YOu may not "agree" with his decision...

I can guarantee that I won't agree or like his decision but that's irrelevant. The point is that the process of ALPA Merger Policy is as close to fair as can be gotten.

Don't get emotional about all this...

Don't know why you'd think I'm emotional. Just trying to explain to some what "DOH" actually means when relatively old and relatively young pilot groups merge.

 

[TWA Dude]

I wonder if the DAL guys will trot this horse out if/when they're negotiating a meger of seniority lists with AWA?

If history is any lesson both sides will trot out whatever they can to gain an advantage. Guys like Trainer8 are just taking things too personal.

 

[trainer8]

If history is any lesson both sides will trot out whatever they can to gain an advantage. Guys like Trainer8 are just taking things too personal.

"If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die?" --WS, MoV

Yeah, it's personal. What is more scary? It's the truth. If they didn't mean it, they would not have hired the lawyers to include extra 17 pages of brief to the arbitrator, soley on the issue of removing these pilots. It's more than rhetoric; it's more than "negotiations." Rhetoric? Maybe if it was a few pages. 17 pages? They want those guys off the list.

We see true colors.

T8

 

[PHXFLYR]

The jumpseat is a great educational seat. I have never turned a jumpseater down when I could take him and will continue to offer the jumpseat to anyone qualified to occupy it. But, once we are out of sterile cockpit, I use it as an opportunity to educate a captive audience. I have no trouble using "specific words" to do that.

What the AWA pilots are seeking is unprescedented in ALPA history. There are an abundance of hiring situations where pilots do not use the "standard" hiring interview process. Reno, Eagle, Delta-Pan-Am, American-TWA, US Shuttle-Trump, are some that come to mind.

AWA leadership is seeking to end the careers of 100 pilots. What you have is one group of pilots from another company seeking to remove pilots at another company because the event of a merger and the way they (CEL pilots) came on the property. In that process, they are using a false accusation about "qualifications" to prop up their argument.

Call it rhetoric, call it negotiating tactics...whatever. Regardless, we get to see into the heart of the pilot group. The AAA position doesn't seek to end anyone's career by removing them from the Seniority List.

Arbitrator Nicolau will ultimately decide. I'm hoping he sees through the charade and concentrates on more important issues.

T8

You're right about one thing. The AAA position doesn't seek to end my career
by removing me from the senority list.They just want to end my career by furloughing me instead. And by the way,I hope I never have to experiencee the "pleasure" of occupying your jumpseat


PHXFLYR

 

[trainer8]

You're right about one thing. The AAA position doesn't seek to end my career by removing me from the senority list.They just want to end my career by furloughing me instead.

And by the way,I hope I never have to experiencee the "pleasure" of occupying your jumpseat

PHXFLYR

Rest assured, Dougie has repeatedly indicated that you will keep your keep your seat. If you guys have your way, the bottom 100 at LCC will be terminated from the LCC list.

T8

 

[Hutcha]

I can guarantee that I won't agree or like his decision but that's irrelevant. The point is that the process of ALPA Merger Policy is as close to fair as can be gotten.

Well, one thing is for sure. Neither side will come out of this not feeling like they got screwed. It will be something that is bit*hed about for decades.

 

[FR8mastr]

Well, one thing is for sure. Neither side will come out of this not feeling like they got screwed. It will be something that is bit*hed about for decades.

There is difference between getting "screwed" and having your career ended.

 

[FR8mastr]

You're right about one thing. The AAA position doesn't seek to end my career
by removing me from the senority list.They just want to end my career by furloughing me instead. And by the way,I hope I never have to experiencee the "pleasure" of occupying your jumpseat


PHXFLYR

They would not furlough any current pilot. If anything I would thing you would want 90 pilots below you on the bottom of the list.
No matter how much you rationalize this, your negotiating committee is trying to have 90 US AIRWAYS pilots removed from the list. And that is just as bad as another way of replacing current (albeit furloughed) employees with another group of employees. Unions are not supposed to do this, that is why we have management.