You Worry Me........

[stonewall]

I'm not sure how one can equate "God wants me to run for President" with "God wants me to kill all christians and jews, wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and establish a greater Caliphate under Sharia Law throughout the globe."

But if you didn't equate those two statements, you'd have to modify your
"Bush is a christian extremist who is every bit as dangerous as muslim extremists" view.

 

[atafan]

"I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."

I know that there are some crazy people who think that a supreme being, Satan or God, is physically talking to them on a daily basis. These people sometimes do some very crazy things.

It's impossible to explain to an atheist how God can speak to you because those communication channels are willfully jammed. When you pray and attempt to become close to God some thoughts become clearer and you might believe that this is God talking to you. This isn't a hair raising "talking burning bush" moment, just clarity of thought.

I believe that if President Bush said God told him to do something what he meant was that through prayer and much thought he became clear at what direction to take, a divine thought.

Some will get this and many will not, I do.

 

[SkiFishFly]

We opened up a can of worms in Iraq and now our weaknesses are being exposed. So what do we do? Lets bash all the muslims and arabs in America cause we are getting owned in Iraq by a bunch of rag tag (pun intended) militia. What happened on 9/11 was disgusting. The solution was in the mountains and caves of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Thats where the enemy was. A 6ft4 scvmbag fvcker standing amongst a bunch of 5 ft nuthin' people. Instead we chose to go into Iraq, a country that had almost zero Al-qaeda following and now has tens of thousands and growing every day.

All because that ****************************** C student nose picker made it to the white house. The damage he has done will live on for generations. Now flame away.

You sir could use some education outside of what you hear from CNN and the likes of Michael Moore, John Kerry and Barbara Striesand.
- The kill ratio is quite high in both Iraq and Afghanistan. We are killing something on the order of 150 of them to every one of our guys.
- It is in fact a valid military strategy to take the "fight" to enemy territory rather allow them to come fight on your soil. If you understood the mentality of the average Islamic fundamentalist, then you would understand that it would drive them nuts to have American soldiers in Iraq and that they would expend all of their resources to fight us there. Thus we have forced/tricked them into fighting our soldiers in their lands rather than killing our innocent civilians here in the US.

George Bush will be remembered as a brave President who made some tough decisions. I see from the last line in your post that you have bought into the Dem party line about how "dumb" OUR President is.

 

[Lear70]

Here ya go:

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."
--Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Abu Mazen quoting Bush when they met in Aqaba; reported in The Haaretz Reporter by Arnon Regular

Ummm... that's not exactly proof, being that it's HERESAY, 3rd party no less.

1. "reported in 'The Haaretz Reporter' by Arnon Regular" the 3rd party who wasn't even present at the 'alleged" conversation'.

2. "Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Abu Mazen QUOTING Bush" the 2nd party who may or may not have gotten the quote exactly right, either accidentally or purposefully.

3. Bush having met with him in Aqaba isn't proof that the quote is accurate; when misquoting people with no recording to verify, including verifiable facts in an unverifiable quote is often a way to lend credence where it otherwise doesn't exist.

It's called "spin" here in this country.

I seriously doubt Bush said anything quite so drastic, so the only 'proof' you have is a quote during his campaign when speaking to an evangelist. Further, he is simply commenting on his reasons for running for President, NOT on any kind of religious zealotry against Arabs, Muslims, or Islam.

Lastly, the VERIFIABLE quote (about running for President) is about as far a cry as you can GET from the "All Christians must die" mentality on the other side of the fence. THAT is religious zealotry - you may want to re-examine your definition of the word.

From Snopes:

But such an approach is not only inimical to many of the principles American stands for, it is also logically flawed. What terrorists bent on the destruction of the USA would hesitate to camouflage themselves by hypocritically waving American flags or professing a false love for the USA? We cannot judge people by outward appearances alone, and that realization leaves us feeling scared and powerless.

That is certainly true as well. Demanding that all your neighbors profess their love for this country would certainly be nice, and one would think that it would be easy to discern truth from lie.

However, in reality, they could probably lie fairly convincingly, then go blow up your local 4th of July celebration next summer and you wouldn't realize it was them until weeks later when the names of the attackers were released.

To keep our way of life forces us to make choices to forego ABSOLUTE security in favor of freedom, albeit with as many safeties as possible. We will probably never feel 100% as secure as pre- 9/11 ever in our natural lives.

As for what Bush is doing with the war effort, evidently Rumsfeld didn't feel it was the way to go either. I agree with taking the fight to their soil, but we did it half-assed, just like Vietnam, and now we're stuck with an occupational police force rather than going in, removing everyone from their homes, screening them just like we would state-side for weapons or explosives, then leveling the country, then rebuilding it, knowing we killed every single bad guy or at least disarmed them thoroughly to the point of throwing rocks.

Right move, wrong follow-through. JMHO.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Here ya go:

"I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."
--George W. Bush commenting to Texas evangelist James Robinson in the run-up to his presidential campaign

This kind of talk doesn't bother me as much as those who vote for a given candidate becasue they think that "God wants him to win". As if God really cares if you are a Republican or a Democrat.

Just like the football player who gives all glory to God when he scores a toughdown or intercepts a pass....but never when he fumbles, or the opposing team wins. Maybe thats what God really wanted.

....just hope God is rooting for the Cowboys today...

Tejas

 

[stonewall]

....just hope God is rooting for the Cowboys today...

Eli and Tiki are from the South...since God is clearly southern, He rights the Giant's ship through Eli's arm and Tiki's legs...G-men in a romp.

 

[brainhurts]

Without copying the origional article, I have to say that was the most consise summation of my feelings on the Islamic crisis we face.

 

[Captain Overs]

He did say "or background..." but he's still wrong, regardless. His analogy about the white, conservative, blah, blah, blah is a false one.

I disagree. You're profiling a group of people for a specific action. Muslims have been known to be terrorists lately so the focus is on them. It also seems like White, Conservative Christians have been in the news lately for having problems molesting kids and having sex with gay prostitutes. As well as doing drugs.

I think the comparison is fair. However we aren't saying the latter scare us. Not every Muslim is a terrorist and I think it's stupid to demand them to prove their loyalty to the US.

Sounds a little like Nazis to me.

 

[Lear70]

....just hope God is rooting for the Cowboys today...

Tejas

Amen.

Pass the beer. :beer:

 

[brainhurts]

I disagree. You're profiling a group of people for a specific action. Muslims have been known to be terrorists lately so the focus is on them. It also seems like White, Conservative Christians have been in the news lately for having problems molesting kids and having sex with gay prostitutes. As well as doing drugs.

I think the comparison is fair. However we aren't saying the latter scare us. Not every Muslim is a terrorist and I think it's stupid to demand them to prove their loyalty to the US.

Sounds a little like Nazis to me.

Muslims have been terrorists lately? I'll take a society that catches child molesters and gay prostitute sexing preachers and deals with them as opposed to your saint-like muslim societies that strap suicide belts onto children any day. You are way off on your comparisons. You worry me.

 

[learflyer]

Eli and Tiki are from the South...since God is clearly southern, He rights the Giant's ship through Eli's arm and Tiki's legs...G-men in a romp.

Were going to take Romo out like we did Thiesmann. Shhhhhhhh.

 

[stonewall]

[

You are way off on your comparisons. You worry me.

[/quote]

Agreed. 30 years of terror attacks by muslims can be voided by a corrupt "preacher" and a few catholic priests molesting boys. Nothing like moral relativism to make one feel good about oneself.

 

[IFLYSIU]

A fundamental problem is in the title of this article... "You worry me". The problem is inherently who you consider to be "You". The ingorance that goes hand in hand with generalizing all people of brown-skin tone as "Arab Muslims", is the same ignorance that many Americans share with the Islamic extremists. As a brown man (Indian) non-Muslim pilot, I can say from first hand experience, that I am victim to the ignorance of American prejudice, especially post 9-11. As a proud American that loves my country, it is YOU, the ignorant American, that worries ME. I'm not an Arab or a Muslim, and you would be shocked at the looks I get from passengers, flight attendants, and even other pilots when I wallk down the jetway and through airports. Is it fair that I have to deal with that on a daily basis because YOU and your insecurities, or because you lack the ability to distinguish between two brown men? Should my rights to live in a free America be infringed upon due to the ignorance of YOU? You can all candy-coat the actions of American politics all day, but the reality is, Bush IS a religious zealot. And the American tax-payers are funding his own personal jihad.

So now should the non-muslim brown-men of America be required to wear patches that distinguish us from the muslims? So that you can sleep better at night knowing the religious affiliation of your neighbor, co-worker, friends, etc? That sort of mentality paralells the mentality of Nazi-Germany. That mentality negates the things that I love about my country. Our constitution protects us from that sort of bullsh*t. That mentality makes me, a Proud American, ashamed to be affiliated with some of YOU, ignorant Americans, that can claim this country as your own, and so easily forget that your families' past generations came here to escape persecution and live freely as well. To the ignorant Americans of this country... understand that the actions of the Islamic extremists do NOT represent the beliefs of all Muslims, and we cannot "brand" all "brown-skinned" Americans based on these actions, because this makes us as bad as them.

Cobra said it best.. "Part of the double-edged sword of living in a free society."

comments?

 

[Lear70]

To the ignorant Americans of this country... understand that the actions of the Islamic extremists do NOT represent the beliefs of all Muslims, and we cannot "brand" all "brown-skinned" Americans based on these actions, because this makes us as bad as them.

That's just about the only thing you said that makes sense.

I also understand your frustration at someone unable to discern the difference between Indian (or any other benign religious group) and Muslim.

The rest of your post is complete B.S. and it sounds as though you've let your personal experiences cloud your perceptions.

You can all candy-coat the actions of American politics all day, but the reality is, Bush IS a religious zealot. And the American tax-payers are funding his own personal jihad.

Again, please post specifics that PROVE your above assertion.

Claiming it is true is NOT proof. Defend your claim.

So now should the non-muslim brown-men of America be required to wear patches that distinguish us from the muslims? So that you can sleep better at night knowing the religious affiliation of your neighbor, co-worker, friends, etc? That sort of mentality paralells the mentality of Nazi-Germany.

Another improper comparison. The two have NOTHIN to do with each other.

Nazi Germans had the mentality that their race was superior and went about separating the inferior from their own race.

The poster of this article didn't believe that he was superior, was NOT demanding to know the difference of Arab/Muslim pacificsts and extremists bent on death and destruction based on Americans being a "master race". Rather, the author was demanding to know these things based on ensuring his own safety and the safety of this country from OUTSIDE aggression.

Again, before you make sweeping generalizations, you might try thinking about what you're writing and see if it makes any real sense.

Other than that, I agree with the double-edged sword comparison.

 

[atafan]

A message to Muslim Americans:

Rather than insulting Americans by calling us dumb and ignorant maybe you should try to get a handle on your out of control religion. If you think you are having a rough time now wait until your brothers blow up a school bus or worse, you'll see how dumb and ignorant people treat you then.

TWA_Dude and his American Criminal Liars Union won't even be able to keep you safe in your own home.

I worry for you.

 

[stonewall]

The ingorance that goes hand in hand with generalizing all people of brown-skin tone as "Arab Muslims",

Is that sort of like saying "it is YOU, the ignorant American?"

I'm not an Arab or a Muslim, and you would be shocked at the looks I get from passengers, flight attendants, and even other pilots when I wallk down the jetway

Maybe it's because you're good looking and have a great ass?

Is it fair that I have to deal with that on a daily basis because YOU and your insecurities, or because you lack the ability to distinguish between two brown men?

That wouldn't be more of the generalization that you abhor, would it?

Bush IS a religious zealot. And the American tax-payers are funding his own personal jihad.

If it was a jihad, we'd be fighting alot harder.

So now should the non-muslim brown-men of America be required to wear patches that distinguish us from the muslims?

No. Has anyone suggested that? Anywhere? EVER? Again, no...but it fits your "Nazi" segue quite nicely.

Our constitution protects us from that sort of bullsh*t.

Not really.

That mentality makes me, a Proud American, ashamed to be affiliated with some of YOU, ignorant Americans

And even more generalizations...guess you don't hate them so much after all.

To the ignorant Americans of this country... understand that the actions of the Islamic extremists do NOT represent the beliefs of all Muslims,

No ********************. Everyone knows this...I'd just like to see more muslims speak out against terror.

because this makes us as bad as them.

We won't be as bad as them until we start sawing off heads with swords.

I sense your frustration, and I can sympathize. However, you need to see the other side of the coin.

 

[Cobra]

I'm not sure how one can equate "God wants me to run for President" with "God wants me to kill all christians and jews, wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and establish a greater Caliphate under Sharia Law throughout the globe."

But if you didn't equate those two statements, you'd have to modify your
"Bush is a christian extremist who is every bit as dangerous as muslim extremists" view.

You need to re-read the entire post there bub.

 

[Cobra]

I know that there are some crazy people who think that a supreme being, Satan or God, is physically talking to them on a daily basis. These people sometimes do some very crazy things.

It's impossible to explain to an atheist how God can speak to you because those communication channels are willfully jammed. When you pray and attempt to become close to God some thoughts become clearer and you might believe that this is God talking to you. This isn't a hair raising "talking burning bush" moment, just clarity of thought.

I believe that if President Bush said God told him to do something what he meant was that through prayer and much thought he became clear at what direction to take, a divine thought.

Some will get this and many will not, I do.

It's been said in this thread that Bush compares to your typical religious zealot. And then someone doubted that notion which, I view as typical willful ignorance. So, I provided a couple of examples-and do you own research if you wish; there are many examples of his zealotry. And that's it, period.

And then you and a couple of others start up with this whole rationalization thing with what Bush says and what Bush does.

More importantly, shouldn't this thread be somewhere else other than the Majors forum? I am just as guilty for participating in the thread as whoever started its roots.?

 

[stonewall]

It's been said in this thread that Bush compares to your typical religious zealot. And then someone doubted that notion which, I view as typical willful ignorance

/quote]

Your examples were sorely lacking. I reread your post, and coupled with this one, my observation still stands. It's a stretch (willfully ignorance?) to call Bush a religious zealot and to equate him with people who suscribe to the "convert or die" method of evangelism.

 

[Cobra]

/quote]

Your examples were sorely lacking. I reread your post, and coupled with this one, my observation still stands. It's a stretch (willfully ignorance?) to call Bush a religious zealot and to equate him with people who suscribe to the "convert or die" method of evangelism.

Since I guess you may suffer from some sort of reader's bloc you should; a) read post #6, b) read post #8, c) read post #16, d) read post #18, e) read post #31, and then surely you can read the remaining posts right? Also, it may not hurt by actually looking up the definition of religious zealotry, By doing so you may actually come to terms that what bush says, past and present, can easily by defined as zealotry.

But, the truth is I hardly doubt you'll come to terms with any of it. I have stumbled across your Bush loving posts in the past. If you want to drive off the cliff with the guy be my guest.

 

[atafan]

More importantly, shouldn't this thread be somewhere else other than the Majors forum?

Agreed!

 

[Lear70]

Were going to take Romo out like we did Thiesmann. Shhhhhhhh.

Yeah,,, THAT went over real well, didn't it?

WOOHOOO!!! Go Cowboys!

What was that about this being in the 'Majors' forum?

 

[Cobra]

Yeah,,, THAT went over real well, didn't it?

WOOHOOO!!! Go Cowboys!

What was that about this being in the 'Majors' forum?

That's right, WOOHOO!!! Go Cowboys!
I am not sure what the deal is with this whole Majors forum thingy.

 

[stonewall]

then surely you can read the remaining posts right

?

Yes.

can easily by defined as zealotry.

zealotry: undue or excessive zeal; fanaticism. Don't think GW has reached that point. If you have, then I think you're the victim of severe hyperbole and/or zealotry of your own.

But, the truth is I hardly doubt you'll come to terms with any of it.

Any of what? Bush is a Christian...I'm okay with that and I've come to terms with it.

I have stumbled across your Bush loving posts in the past.

Stumbled or searched? By all means, show me exactly what posts to which you are referring. I voted for him twice, but I don't 'love' any politician.

If you want to drive off the cliff with the guy be my guest

.

I'll do my job. If you call that driving off the cliff, so be it.

Is this the best you can come up with?

 

[Captain Overs]

You guys miss the point. You can mention the long history of terrorists, however I don't remember people pointing out every Muslim prior to 9-11.

Like I said, you guys miss the point but I didn't expect a highly intellectual conversation from flightinfo. Nobody does.

 

[learflyer]

Yeah,,, THAT went over real well, didn't it?

WOOHOOO!!! Go Cowboys!

What was that about this being in the 'Majors' forum?

Dad gummit

 

[Lear70]

You guys miss the point. You can mention the long history of terrorists, however I don't remember people pointing out every Muslim prior to 9-11.

Hmmm... might that have been because several organized groups of them hadn't attempted multiple aircraft takeovers for the purpose of causing mass death, chaos, and fear in OUR citizens on AMERICAN soil?

As said before, taking the fight to the enemies' soil is MUCH more effective than just battling away in your own country. It stirred THIS country as never before.

Racial profiling WORKS. It's true, not every Arab Muslim is a terrorist, but nearly all terrorists in the last 5 years have been Arab Muslim. And yes, I'm educated enough to tell the difference.

So forgive me if I don't automatically assume Ahmed is a good guy and keep my eye on the ball. They don't get the benefit of the doubt - that's how MORE people die. If it's my coworker who is sitting beside me in the aircraft, I MIGHT relax my guard a LITTLE, but I'll always wonder.

Who was it that said "A LITTLE paranoia is a healthy thing"? Helps you live longer...

Like I said, you guys miss the point but I didn't expect a highly intellectual conversation from flightinfo. Nobody does.

No, I got the point.

I threw some back out there but no one seems to want to back up their Bush-bashing with VERIFIABLE FACTS or debate their stance on comparing this post to anti-semitic Naziism.

But then again, I didn't expect a highly intellectual conversation from flightinfo.

Unless Rez or Occam or one of those other guys comes out on the subject. We very rarely agree, but at least it's harder to punch holes in their arguments which makes the debate more entertaining.

 

[Oh-ryan]

Hmmm... might that have been because several organized groups of them hadn't attempted multiple aircraft takeovers for the purpose of causing mass death, chaos, and fear in OUR citizens on AMERICAN soil?

As said before, taking the fight to the enemies' soil is MUCH more effective than just battling away in your own country. It stirred THIS country as never before.

Racial profiling WORKS. It's true, not every Arab Muslim is a terrorist, but nearly all terrorists in the last 5 years have been Arab Muslim. And yes, I'm educated enough to tell the difference.

So forgive me if I don't automatically assume Ahmed is a good guy and keep my eye on the ball. They don't get the benefit of the doubt - that's how MORE people die. If it's my coworker who is sitting beside me in the aircraft, I MIGHT relax my guard a LITTLE, but I'll always wonder.

Who was it that said "A LITTLE paranoia is a healthy thing"? Helps you live longer...


No, I got the point.

I threw some back out there but no one seems to want to back up their Bush-bashing with VERIFIABLE FACTS or debate their stance on comparing this post to anti-semitic Naziism.

But then again, I didn't expect a highly intellectual conversation from flightinfo.

Unless Rez or Occam or one of those other guys comes out on the subject. We very rarely agree, but at least it's harder to punch holes in their arguments which makes the debate more entertaining.

Agreed! It's called good police work. If you are trying to find a need in a hay stack it helps if you are actually looking for the needle and not a baseball. The problem is when profiling gets abused, which unfortunately happens as well.

Any update on the Arab pilot and his discrimination suit against jetBlue?

 

[Captain Overs]

Back up Bush bashing? Give me a break!! There are too many to count how he has trampled the constitution. Warrentless wiretapping is just the tip of the iceberg. Turn off Fox News and read some real news.

Remember Ben Franklin saying those that would give up Liberty and freedom for security deserve neither. Point well stated.

 

[SkiFishFly]

Back up Bush bashing? Give me a break!! There are too many to count how he has trampled the constitution. Warrentless wiretapping is just the tip of the iceberg. Turn off Fox News and read some real news.

Remember Ben Franklin saying those that would give up Liberty and freedom for security deserve neither. Point well stated.

Turn off CNN and put down the New York Times and think about this for just a minute. This program is just an extension of one that has been used in the past (yes even by Clinton).

Do you honestly believe that Bush pulled this one out of his arse and implemented it all on his own?

A much more likely scenario is that he met with some of the top legal minds in the Justice Dept/Administration and they put together a plan that could be implemented to protect the American people. They were also smart enough to craft it so that it could withstand most court challenges. The President has pretty broad leeway in times of war (you didn't fall for the Dem party line and forget that we are at war did you?). This has been established in the constitution and through legal precedents set by the courts over the years.

Look at the programs that President Bush has implemented over the last 5 years and ask "Was this an effective way to root out our current enemy and protect the American citizens?" If you are honest about this, you will conclude that we have a President who is motivated by a deep desire to protect US citizens. That is what we elect a President to do.