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Mesa Pilots strike back

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TNPILOT

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Posts
342
Mesa pilots, what's the story behind this?

Mesa Pilots Ask Crt To Force Compliance With Arbitration Award


DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
November 29, 2006 4:09 p.m.

DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
Pilots at Phoenix-based Mesa Air Group Inc. (MESA) filed a federal lawsuit against the company late Tuesday over what they claim is the airline's refusal to abide by the terms of a labor arbitration award.
The pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association International, said the company has failed to comply with an arbitrator's ruling earlier this year, which found that Mesa violated the pilots' collective bargaining agreement by engaging in a widespread practice of altering awarded flight schedules and related actions.
A Mesa spokesman declined to immediately comment on the suit.
 
Does Mesa suck that much?
 
How long has that grievance been going on? I heard upwards of nearly 2 years.
 
Short version:

Mesa pilots submitted a group greviance in July 2003 regarding company policies for their "junior assignment" policies. Basically, the company was (and still is) caught grabbing any pilot they could to fly anything they want to fill, at any time, without regard to senority or lineholder status. Furthermore, they were not paying these re-assignments at "JA" pay (x1.5).

The union's position: while one reserve, you are the company's beyotch. However, if you are a line-holder, the scheduling rules are VERY clear . . . you bid a "hard" line for a reason, and your schedule WILL BE that line. With an exception for "extrodianary circumstances", line holders schedules can only be altered strictly according to reverse-senority rules and with JA pay.

Llineholders schedules were being altered beyond recognition and being told "you're the most junior pilot available" and "we don't have to pay you JA pay". Being a "lineholder" was basically meaningless - no matter how senior you were, your schedule could be altered at will, all the time.

SO: ALPA filed a greviance. Waited two years to get it heard . . . and WON(!) the system board (heard by arbitrator "Harris", so it's known as the "Harris award"). Company appealed it, and the company LOST (!). So now the company has to:

----- Stop treating lineholders like reserve be-yotches

----- Must pay any "re-assignments" at JA pay when given to lineholders

----- Must retroactively pay all the lineholders JA pay for the past 2 years. This is probably going to cost he company upwards of 2.5 million dollars.

COMPANY RESPONSE: Ignore the system board award. No back pay, no change in scheduling practices. It's like it never happened.


Very, very frustrating. MAG pilots followed the RLA and the greviance process to the letter of the law, won, then won the appeal, and nothing changed. So with the help of big-boy ALPA, the Mesa MEC filed in federal court to enforce the system board award.

What can a union do when a company compeltely ignores the instructions of a grieved arbitration? Hopefully, the answer is sue the crap out of the company for breech of contract, get the award enforced, and maybe get some fat, juicy punative damages awarded against the company.

They'd do EXACTLY the same thing to us if we, as a union, ignored a system board awarded greviance.
 
A better summary can be found here:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061129/dcw038.html?.v=78

Mesa Air Group Pilots Ask Federal Court to Force Management Compliance With Arbitration Award


PHOENIX, Nov. 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Pilots at Phoenix-based Mesa Air Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: MESA - News), filed a federal lawsuit against the company late yesterday which seeks court enforcement of a significant scheduling arbitration award to compel Mesa management to follow the terms of the pilots' collective bargaining agreement. The pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA) prevailed in the arbitration, but nearly six months after the arbitrator issued the decision, management continues to refuse to comply with the ruling because it would undoubtedly cost them money.


Like pilots throughout the airline industry, Mesa's 1800 pilots bid for monthly schedules based on their relative seniority. The company administers the bidding process and then publishes the results to pilots. In a decision which became final on June 13, 2006, nationally known labor arbitrator Robert O. Harris of Washington, DC, ruled that Mesa violated the pilots' collective bargaining agreement by engaging in a widespread practice of altering awarded flight schedules, re-assigning flight duties, rescheduling awarded flights, and transferring flight duties among pilots.
Captain James Ackerman, chairman of ALPA's Mesa pilot unit said, "Competent pilot scheduling is key to our pilots' quality of life. It dictates how long you're away from home, how much you're paid, and how productive you are while on duty."
With constant scheduling changes, many of which are last minute, Mesa pilots are frequently on duty for long periods of time with erratic rest schedules, which not only make family life difficult, but also promote job dissatisfaction and fatigue.
"It plays havoc with our lives," said the pilots' Scheduling Committee chairman Captain Darrell Cox. "The irony is that our union foreshadowed a shortage of pilots long ago, and many of these problems could have been mitigated if management had just hired appropriately according to the operation's needs."
While the pilots recognize that weather, aircraft mechanical problems, and other issues cause schedule disruptions, the pilots' contract allows for schedule adjustments by the company in such situations. But the union leadership insists management has systematically abused the contract with respect to schedule changes -- and that the arbitrator's ruling affirms this. After nearly six months of requesting that management modify its practices and abide by the arbitrator's decision, union leaders say Mesa pilots are frustrated about their management's lack of compliance.
ALPA president Captain Duane E. Woerth vowed to put the weight of the largest pilots union in the world behind the effort to preserve Mesa pilots' quality of life and stop management from trampling over pilots' rights. "We expect airline managements to abide by the terms of the collective bargaining agreements they sign," Woerth said. "ALPA will take all reasonable and lawful steps to protect the contractual rights of our members," he added.
Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world's largest pilot union, representing 61,000 pilots at 40 airlines in the United States and Canada, including 1,840 pilots who fly for Mesa Air Group. Mesa Air Group's 187 aircraft perform more than 1,200 daily departures in 46 states, the District of Columbia, Canada, the Bahamas and Mexico. Visit the ALPA website at http://www.alpa.org.
 
Ummm, perhaps you didn't hear him. ALPA FILED SUIT IN FEDERAL COURT TO FORCE MAG TO COMPLY WITH THE ARBITRATION RULING!!!!!!!!!!!

What course of action can you at Skywest take if the company doesn't abide by its "employee handbook?" Oh, that's right! You can't do jack sh!t. Just wait until uncle Jerry is done messing with the ASA pilots. You'll be next, and you'll wish you had had the common sense to get some representation before it was too late.
 
Here swoops in PCL128 with the dont say bad stuff about alpa. God im sure you have a pager wired to this website that constantly looks for anyone telling the truth about alpa. No, alpa does suck, really think about this. You pay alpa all this cash to get this great "contract" then when the contract is busted it takes 2 years for a judge to say "yea that contract was busted, pay up mr bad mesa guy", THEN he doesnt pay up. So now its back to court time!!! weeee another 2 years. In the meantime the guys that got screwed have moved on/quit mesa. Hey at least they got to pay 2% the whole time they were there!

Oh and PCL heres one for you, I have a huge feeling when your new contract/concessions are final you wont have a leg to stand on for supporting alpa. Once you get your brand new piss pore BOTTOM of the regional/mesa like contract mise well quit because you let all the other pilots down with negotiating such a crap contract! I predicted it, and it will happen! enjoy!

Why would jerry come after us?, you really going to try a scare tactic to get 2% outa us? please, and hes not going after ASA, he is just cleaning up the mess that alpa left there. Get the alpa used toilet paper out of your ears.

"get some representation,get some representation, get some representation"

no thanks, dont need it
 
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ALPA president Captain Duane E. Woerth vowed to put the weight of the largest pilots union in the world behind the effort to preserve Mesa pilots' quality of life and stop management from trampling over pilots' rights. "We expect airline managements to abide by the terms of the collective bargaining agreements they sign," Woerth said. "ALPA will take all reasonable and lawful steps to protect the contractual rights of our members," he added.

This is my favorite part!

Duane says this, yet he and ALPA constantly advocates for, and approves more concessions. Heck of a job ALPA has done at MESA so far!

<sarcasm> I can't imagine what they'd be like without the Union. <gag>

ALPA will do everything it can...to get more money out of you!

2% of salary every month, so that after 4 years of court fights, you can get $200 back. Sounds like a deal to me!

You ever get those class-action lawsuit advertisement in the mail? ALPA is the same scam.

The Union states that they are protecting the little guy from the big, bad Company. What happens when the Union itself is a larger business focused on money than the company it is fighting?

PCL, you asked about what protections do the Skywest guys have? Who would fight with them in court over this? Well, Skywest doesn't have an animosity built up between the company and its workers (generated by a union), so it doesn't have these types of problems.
 
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Duane says this, yet he and ALPA constantly advocates for, and approves more concessions.

ALPA will do everything it can...to get more money out of you!

Do you not see the contradiction in these two statements? ALPA wants concessions, yet ALPA only cares about money? You do realize that 1.95% of a cut payrate is less money, right? :rolleyes:

PCL, you asked about what protections do the Skywest guys have? Who would fight with them in court over this? Well, Skywest doesn't have an animosity built up between the company and its workers (generated by a union), so it doesn't have these types of problems.

Animosity isn't generated by a union. Animosity is already there, and the union merely keeps it in check. Your relationship with management has been good so far, but that will soon change. Jerry bought ASA with the intention of creating a massive whipsaw, and you'll soon find out what it's like to be the non-union party to a whipsaw. That massive(tic) 1% payraise he's offering you is just the tool to keep you placated until the ALPA drive is over. If that fails and once the ASA contract is finished, he'll be coming for you. But then it will be too late.
 
Here swoops in PCL128 with the don't say bad stuff about alpa. God im sure you have a pager wired to this website that constantly looks for anyone telling the truth about alpa. No, alpa does suck, really think about this. You pay alpa all this cash to get this great "contract" then when the contract is busted it takes 2 years for a judge to say "yea that contract was busted, pay up mr bad mesa guy", THEN he doesnt pay up. So now its back to court time!!! weeee another 2 years. In the meantime the guys that got screwed have moved on/quit mesa. Hey at least they got to pay 2% the whole time they were there!

You can continue to talk about how long a grievance takes, but it doesn't take away from the fact that we have a recourse and you have none. By the way, it doesn't matter if someone leaves to go to another company. You are still considered grievance-pending and will receive your money when the grievance is settled.

Oh and PCL heres one for you, I have a huge feeling when your new contract/concessions are final you wont have a leg to stand on for supporting alpa. Once you get your brand new piss pore BOTTOM of the regional/mesa like contract mise well quit because you let all the other pilots down with negotiating such a crap contract! I predicted it, and it will happen! enjoy!

Hate to disappoint you, little man, but there won't be any concessions here at Pinnacle.

Why would jerry come after us

Because it will put more money in his pockets, and that's all that matters to him. Your naiveté is pathetic. Jerry doesn't care about you or your family. You are merely an item on a balance sheet. Now that he has ASA, he has the means to whipsaw you. Better get ALPA before it's too late.
 
Animosity isn't generated by a union. Animosity is already there, and the union merely keeps it in check. Your relationship with management has been good so far, but that will soon change. Jerry bought ASA with the intention of creating a massive whipsaw, and you'll soon find out what it's like to be the non-union party to a whipsaw. That massive(tic) 1% payraise he's offering you is just the tool to keep you placated until the ALPA drive is over. If that fails and once the ASA contract is finished, he'll be coming for you. But then it will be too late.

Are you kidding me?, you believe this drool you spout out? Talk about being foolish, and not knowing the facts! Delta was going to sell ASA to mesa, so SKYW was forced to buy them. Jerry has always wanted growth internal not buying a bunch of problems to fix. There will be no whipsaw, the only reason you keep spouting off about WHIPSAWS are because pinnacle and mesaba are in the whipsaw, and YOU are stuck in the middle. Lets see how great of contracts/qol alpa leaves you guys with? My bet is you will be standing there by yourself pissing in the wind, oh and minus 2% of course.
 
Here swoops in PCL128 with the dont say bad stuff about alpa. God im sure you have a pager wired to this website that constantly looks for anyone telling the truth about alpa. No, alpa does suck, really think about this. You pay alpa all this cash to get this great "contract" then when the contract is busted it takes 2 years for a judge to say "yea that contract was busted, pay up mr bad mesa guy", THEN he doesnt pay up. So now its back to court time!!! weeee another 2 years. In the meantime the guys that got screwed have moved on/quit mesa. Hey at least they got to pay 2% the whole time they were there!

Oh and PCL heres one for you, I have a huge feeling when your new contract/concessions are final you wont have a leg to stand on for supporting alpa. Once you get your brand new piss pore BOTTOM of the regional/mesa like contract mise well quit because you let all the other pilots down with negotiating such a crap contract! I predicted it, and it will happen! enjoy!

Why would jerry come after us?, you really going to try a scare tactic to get 2% outa us? please, and hes not going after ASA, he is just cleaning up the mess that alpa left there. Get the alpa used toilet paper out of your ears.

"get some representation,get some representation, get some representation"

no thanks, dont need it



Did you ride a short bus to school????
 
.... knowing the facts! Delta was going to sell ASA to mesa, so SKYW was forced to buy them. Jerry has always wanted growth internal not buying a bunch of problems to fix.
Not true, not true at all. Jerry had been after the ASA SLC 70 seat operation and needed to secure his position given that UAL and DAL were about to both be in bankruptcy. DAL said "all or nothing" and the deal drug on for another 8 months before Jerry negotiated the ATL gates which he felt was good security, even if DAL did tank.

Source - Jerry Atkin himself.

So either your "facts" are way off, or Jerry Atkin stood in front of 80 ASA pilots and lied. Which is it?

Mesa has not been a player. Not even in the Comair debacle.
 
You'll see soon enough, little man. And I will be sitting back and laughing.

Well, that is definitely in the top 10 of the dumbest things I have read on here. As a former ALPA member, please stop posting your goose-stepping nazi crap on here and making the organization look worse than it already does.
 
Here swoops in PCL128 with the dont say bad stuff about alpa. God im sure you have a pager wired to this website that constantly looks for anyone telling the truth about alpa. No, alpa does suck, really think about this. You pay alpa all this cash to get this great "contract" then when the contract is busted it takes 2 years for a judge to say "yea that contract was busted, pay up mr bad mesa guy", THEN he doesnt pay up. So now its back to court time!!! weeee another 2 years. In the meantime the guys that got screwed have moved on/quit mesa. Hey at least they got to pay 2% the whole time they were there!

Oh and PCL heres one for you, I have a huge feeling when your new contract/concessions are final you wont have a leg to stand on for supporting alpa. Once you get your brand new piss pore BOTTOM of the regional/mesa like contract mise well quit because you let all the other pilots down with negotiating such a crap contract! I predicted it, and it will happen! enjoy!

Why would jerry come after us?, you really going to try a scare tactic to get 2% outa us? please, and hes not going after ASA, he is just cleaning up the mess that alpa left there. Get the alpa used toilet paper out of your ears.

"get some representation,get some representation, get some representation"

no thanks, dont need it

You sir are a fukcing idiot AND a moron.
 
Wow 3 years and counting for the grievance!!! I'm sorry but that really is an absolute joke. I know I know it's not ALPA's fault. The problem here is that everyone talks about how good a legally enforceable contract is. I think it would be good if it was actually enforceable. Basically the company can violate it, tell you to grieve it and maybe you will get a comp day off and some money 3 or 4 years later. The whole RLA is pretty much a joke, until it changes I see no point in having a union. This grievance will probably not finally be paid out until near the end of the decade. What about the pilots that are entitled to money that have left Mesa since it was filed?? What a joke this system is. Basically they won the grievance, the company still refuses to pay and they get tangled up in federal court. Im just glad I am saving money every month not having to put up with this crap.
 
Do you not see the contradiction in these two statements? ALPA wants concessions, yet ALPA only cares about money? You do realize that 1.95% of a cut payrate is less money, right? :rolleyes:



Animosity isn't generated by a union. Animosity is already there, and the union merely keeps it in check. Your relationship with management has been good so far, but that will soon change. Jerry bought ASA with the intention of creating a massive whipsaw, and you'll soon find out what it's like to be the non-union party to a whipsaw. That massive(tic) 1% payraise he's offering you is just the tool to keep you placated until the ALPA drive is over. If that fails and once the ASA contract is finished, he'll be coming for you. But then it will be too late.

Anybody else tired of PCL 128 offering his opinion about SKYW? Do you think it might be because he wasn't hired and consequently had to PFT his way in life.... Dude get a fckin life and move on with it..I could give 2 shts about you and your "career", please pay me the same courtesy...

It's amazing how many guys seem to know what Jerry is going to do next, or what Jerry has in store for the pilots at SKYW, you people know squat, we could care less what you think, the more you offer your "advice" the more we could care less about your opinion.
 
Yea it is lame.

The fact of the matter is:

PCL_128 PAID FOR TRAINING THOUGH GULFSTREAM AND NOW HE USES ALPA TO TRY AND HIDE FROM HIS PAST. like this i was a total slut but now i am a alpa rep, so its ok I PFT right?????


NONONONONONO its not scabboy
 
I question the aim of ALPA as well in this time when pilots seem to be a limited commodity, 600TT 100MT.
These next few years will dictate the trend of the industry, better get your sh!t together.
 
Time for all us, except those turds that ate paint chips when they were kids (Terrain and Newcrap), to join hands and sing Kumbiya. If you don't know the words, We Are The World will suffice. Those of you that don't know that song, your nutz haven't dropped yet.
 
omg, this is a shining example of why alpa is a complete joke!!!!

Damn. You just don't get it. Unless YOU are willing to raid Ornstein's office and forcibly remove money from his pocket to play Robinhood the only sensible thing to do is push him into a corner legally and extract your due through the laws and the process that is there. Is there a single thing the union leadership should have done that they didn't?

Speak up to the facts, don't just bitch about an maddening system and blame ALPA for operating as best it can within it.

...just a professional aviator passing through
 
I used to think like you. Work with management, they'll work with you. We all want the same things, right? I suppose that's fine if you have an exceptional management team, but not every labor group is so fortunate.

I can assure you, that if Mesa were non-union, pilots would be given 24 hours off every seven calendar days. Schedules would be ammendable on a minute by minute basis. Senority would mean nothing, pilots would be fired without cause (i.e. "at will" employees) and with no review process. Crews would sleep on planes with boards, blankets and cots. And so forth, because that would maxamize profitability by increasing the airlines labor options.

As to whipsaw: I'll bet every Freedom pilot at Mesa was 100% convinced that by helping the company when it was in a jam, bypassing ALPA with a non-union start up, and growing the company with the CRJ7/900's they'd be pals of the company and no harm would come to them. Wonder how they felt when they were used to whipsaw the Mesa pilots to accept a contract that is factually and demonstrably WORSE than the PREVIOUS contract?

And then they were stapled to the bottom of that merged list to boot, with not a few CRJ captains becoming not-too-welcome first officers. Like a spent condom used on a cheap hooker, they outlived their usefulness, and management cast them aside.

ALPA is a blunt instrument; their hands are tied by the RLA which is extremely limiting. But I assure you, it's far, far better than relying on the good faith of a management team that has no scruples. For christ's sake . . . MESA MANAGEMENT DICTATED THIS CONTRACT TO THE PILOT GROUP . . .and they STILL won't follow the very, very few provisions that give the pilots a minimal Q.O.L. when it comes to schedules.


Are you kidding me?, you believe this drool you spout out? Talk about being foolish, and not knowing the facts! Delta was going to sell ASA to mesa, so SKYW was forced to buy them. Jerry has always wanted growth internal not buying a bunch of problems to fix. There will be no whipsaw, the only reason you keep spouting off about WHIPSAWS are because pinnacle and mesaba are in the whipsaw, and YOU are stuck in the middle. Lets see how great of contracts/qol alpa leaves you guys with? My bet is you will be standing there by yourself pissing in the wind, oh and minus 2% of course.
 

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