ERAU on piloting career

[CopilotDoug]

there are many factors which could take that career progression away from you. Examples are a problem with your medical, an aviation accident, driving issues, etc...

This has got to be one of the most under-addressed realities airline pilots face. This profession places you in a harsh and high stress environment. Your body clock gets messed up, you're exposed to radiation on a daily basis, it's tough to eat a ballanced diet and you deal with fatigue on a daily basis. Should a pilot lose their medical at age forty, with no fall back career, that $120,000-$150,000/yr they were making doesn't seem like so much with their entire life ahead of them. It's a point I've explained to many people in and out of aviation, and for some people it's as if a light went on.

 

[hmmurdock]

Still a great career, no need for a college degree, there is a growing pilot shortage. This will accelerate as the hiring boom continues to grow. $100K/yr is a very doable figure for pilot who is a high school grad, as I said still a great career.

Greetings...You fail to mention that the 100,000 in income will only come after 15 years or so, maybe. Don't forget you won't even break 40K or so for 5 to 6 years. Lets be realistic here.

Take care

 

[pilotyip]

hmmurdock what is wrong with $100K at age 35? Five or sic years after the Comm/Inst/MEL at age 18 is 23-24 years old making $40K. My nephew age 26 College graduate Finance major works for a Dow Jones 30 company, a mangment trainee, makes under $40K. It is part of working into a career.

 

[800Dog]

hmmurdock what is wrong with $100K at age 35? Five or sic years after the Comm/Inst/MEL at age 18 is 23-24 years old making $40K. My nephew age 26 College graduate Finance major works for a Dow Jones 30 company, a mangment trainee, makes under $40K. It is part of working into a career.

My cousin is 28, has his MBA from Emory and makes 150k, plus an annual bonus and a car allowance. Whats your point? 100k for a family of four is chump change. After your mortgage, bills, retirement and college savings etc, there is little left. Oh wait, you don't believe in college so scrap the college savings! Its all about expectations.

 

[HA25]

hmmurdock what is wrong with $100K at age 35? Five or sic years after the Comm/Inst/MEL at age 18 is 23-24 years old making $40K. My nephew age 26 College graduate Finance major works for a Dow Jones 30 company, a mangment trainee, makes under $40K. It is part of working into a career.

Odd, I have a degree in Finance from SJSU and most of my classmates I kept in touch with that are between 35-38 are making well into the 6 figures, many of them without MBA's, just a BS.. Oracle pays their Financial Analyst #2 guys (5 years post-college experience) $95,000+year end bonuses based on dept performance. They're MBA's that are in Manager positions in the finance dept are making $140K+ This directly from my best friend of 20 years who works for them in Redwood Shores.

$40K/yr for a 26year old to intern is a whole lot better than $18K/yr for a 26 year old FO on an RJ..

 

[HA25]

My cousin is 28, has his MBA from Emory and makes 150k, plus an annual bonus and a car allowance. Whats your point? 100k for a family of four is chump change. After your mortgage, bills, retirement and college savings etc, there is little left. Oh wait, you don't believe in college so scrap the college savings! Its all about expectations.

EXACTLY!


$100K after taxes is $75000... on a monthly basis it's about $6200... A typical home now is $450,000 (much more in Scottsdale nearby, and a whole heck of a lot more in the SF Bay Area where I grew up)... but lt's just say $450,000...

Now, let's say you manage to save 10% down to even get a loan for $410,000 (that's $40,000 you have to save up while you pay rent) at 6%.. your P&I plus Escrow taxes and homeowners insurance is a bout $3200/mo... Now let's get a $35K SUV or Car (just one).... there is another $650/mo... add insurance and yearly registration $150/month.. Electric bill (in Phoenix) $250/mo and that's if you keep the AC at 78 degrees.. Water/garbage $100, Gas (for home) is $80, Gas for the car is $200/mo easily.. Tithe at Church, $100, Food at the grocery is $500/mo for a family of 4.. Payments for furniture, or any other major household items like a TV or a computer and your $350/mo unless you sleep on the floor and eat off the floor and watch no TV... there you are at $5600 before you put a single dime into savings for retirement, a 401K, college savings or otherwise. Then there are the unforeseen incidental expenses, hobbies, or a Vacation (God forbid!).. which you'll have literally $200-300 months for in total..

There's you 100 Grand a year pal..

Is that "the life"?? or is that "a life".. that depends on your expectations and self worth I suppose.

 

[pilotyip]

Yes V70T5, but the 26 year old pilot without a degree will not be an F/O on a RJ. If he has been professionally flying since he was 18 at age 26 is going to have job that pays him well above an RJ F/O figure. So don’t make that comparison, for most pilots RJ F/O is a temporary position. Again "good on ya" to all those young people making in the 200K plus range they are rare bunch that is in the upper 3% of US incomes. It is not the reality that I know; it does not fit into what I see locally. My brother MBA, Fortune 5 Company, one level below VP and company car, does not make $100K, he lives a good life. Of course I gues the cost of living in more reasonable in the Midwest. Flying an airplane should not be done to make big dollars; it does not fit the reality of the workplace. If you have the skills to be a Harvard MBA making $200K at age 30 working for some company why would you fly an airplane?

 

[HA25]

My brother MBA, Fortune 5 Company, one level below VP and company car, does not make $100K, he lives a good life.

Where? Are you sure it's not $100,000/yr plus stock options and bonuses that equal another $100,000???

Here are some REAL wages taken out of a the last issue of "Phoenix Magazine" in 2006 where they publish the anual "Who's earning what?" article with real incomes of real people.

Now consider that the new "Upstart" Virgin America is starting their Airbus Captains at $95/hr on a 70hr gr., that's $79K/yr to captain a A320... there is a place in Columbus Ohio called SkyBus that pays $64,000/yr to their Airbus 320 Caps.. and many FAR 121 Cargo operators that fly heavies pay their FO's $35,000/yr to start and captains in the low $100's..

Now here are some numbers to digest.. (keep in mind, except for a few, most of these people are home most every night).

(aviation jobs)

-Flight Attendant: $50,970
-Air Traffic Controller: $80,650
-Professional Flight Instructor: $80,446 <-- this isn't your 1000 wonder type obviously.
-Airline Pilot: 91,394 <--- (likely a AWA Captain)

(Medical Jobs)

-Anesthesiologist: $179,070
-Chiropractor: $93,870
-Dental Hygienist: $69,490
-Dental Tech: $35,190
-Dentist: $132,340
-Orthodontist: $179,230
-Pediatrician: $171,459
-Physical Therapist: $69,250
-Psychiatrist: $151,240
-Registered Nurse: $59,250
-Surgeon: $170,960

(Legal)

-Attorney: $119,090
-Judge: $94,090
-Paralegal: $43,830
-Mediator: $59,050
-Court Reporter: $44,430

(other jobs)

-Real Estate Agent: $110,000
-Electrical lineman: $81,000
-Social worker: $45,780
-General Contractor: $97,359
-Ice Sculptor artist: $70,290
-Nordstroms Piano guy: $45,000
-ASU Professor: $102,500
-ASU President: $578,394
-UofA Professor: $141,000
-Aerospace Engineer: 86,130
-Electrical Engineer: $76,400
-Muni bus driver: $41,000
-Fire Chief: $134,000
-Police Captain: $137,634
-Marketing Manager: $79,880
-Zoo Director: $104,000
-Insurance Broker: $101,000
-Claims Adjuster: $46,200
-Bank Branch Manager: $119,100
-Solid Waste Vehicle operator: $59,240
-Loan Officer: $75,030

 

[ReportCanoa]

Riddle is ruining its reputation. In fact, it is looking more like Tab Express than Harvard. Too bad for those who blew their wad there.

 

[Metro752]

If you have the skills to be a Harvard MBA making $200K at age 30 working for some company why would you fly an airplane?

Because it's better than flying a desk. $$ ain't everything.


.

 

[CopilotDoug]

I don't understand the people that say, "Money isn't everything."
My guess is that they either:
A)Their lifestyle is subsidized by relatives or spouses
B)They don't have any real world work experience yet (right out of college)
or
C)They have no sense of self worth.

In my opinion, not one of these is a valid excuse.

And by the way, YIP, why didn't I think of going out and logging the TurboJet PIC time in the first place when I was 19 years old?!?

 

[HA25]

I don't understand the people that say, "Money isn't everything."
My guess is that they either:
A)Their lifestyle is subsidized by relatives or spouses
B)They don't have any real world work experience yet (right out of college)
or
C)They have no sense of self worth.

In my opinion, not one of these is a valid excuse.

And by the way, YIP, why didn't I think of going out and logging the TurboJet PIC time in the first place when I was 19 years old?!?

I agree... heck, I'll come right out and say it..I've done EXTREMELY we'll in real estate with my family over the past 3 years (outside aviation) and I don't have to work a single day in my life and still can drive a new benz and live in a nice home for the rest of my life...

BUT

I have self worth. I believe that my chosen 'profession" has a great deal of responsibility and an immense burden on it's body of members.. Having myself been in a real life smoke in the cockpit/Emergency descent and seeing my life flash by along with the faces of my family and kids.. thinking about them growing up with out me.. Thinking about the dozens of people in the back and their families, and then those on the ground should I plan it into a city.. All this registered hard on me after we got it down on the ground safe that in the end, the concept, or idea of a pilot who's flying even the smallest mainline passenger jets, for under $75,000 for first officer, and $150,000 or more for CP is simply wrong on it's face, no matter what your personal financial situation is.

I mean when you look at a Muni Bus driver in SF making $80,000/yr, while at the same time a Airbus pilot based out of SFO for Virgin America is going to make the same thing... doesn't that strike you as odd?

 

[thowe21]

Embry-Riddle is the biggest scam out there. The Pilots that were in my training program in a 121 carrier almost didn't make it through training. If there is one thing I can say to all you new guys who want to be pilots is one, don't go to Embry-Riddle, two don't go to Purdue and if you want to make money become a porn star....but Riddle sucks...

 

[av8rnate]

Concerning the college degree, it's more who you know than what you know. If you don't know anyone a doctorate won't get you an interview. They won't know you have a degree if they don't read your resume...they won't read resume unless someone you know pulls it out of the enormous stack. If they have taken the effort to pull it out of the stack you're probably already in their favor, degree or not. Though a college degree is never a bad thing, it's rather silly to say that it is a must in this industry (FedEx being the only real exception). Of course those on either side of this debate could list examples in their favor; all would agree that you need to know someone. There lies the conclusion

 

[8KCAB]

Please, for the love of GOD! Would my fellow ERAU grads PLEASE quit giving us all a bad name. Oh, to be 18 again and train Part 61 and go to a state school. A business degree, or engineering or F-ing anything but a worthless AS from a college that takes 10 minutes to explain to anyone and a life-time to pay back. Oh well, live and learn.

 

[pilotyip]

co-doug, 19 might be streching it a bit, but I hired a pilot back in 1998, 22 years old and he had almost 1000 hr TJ PIC, flying Lears for a on-demand place, he now a happy F/O at a LLC.

 

[pilotyip]

V790TF, you listed $150K, for a Captain, that is above almost every number you listed in the other post. To be paid that well to do something you like is every man's dream. Those Virgin pays you mention are entry level pays. Virgin world wide has a pretty good reputation with its srewmwmbers. There is no reason to believe the American Virgin will be any different.

 

[PCL_128]

Virgin world wide has a pretty good reputation with its srewmwmbers. There is no reason to believe the American Virgin will be any different.

Virgin Atlantic has some of the lowest-paid international widebody pilots in the world. So yeah, you're probably right. Virgin America will be the same.

 

[HA25]

V790TF, you listed $150K, for a Captain, that is above almost every number you listed in the other post. To be paid that well to do something you like is every man's dream. Those Virgin pays you mention are entry level pays. Virgin world wide has a pretty good reputation with its srewmwmbers. There is no reason to believe the American Virgin will be any different.

EVERY medical doctor on my list made $170+ so don't sell the airliner captain short.. He should make at or above what a doctor makes.
\

 

[CopilotDoug]

co-doug, 19 might be streching it a bit, but I hired a pilot back in 1998, 22 years old and he had almost 1000 hr TJ PIC, flying Lears for a on-demand place, he now a happy F/O at a LLC.

You gotta admit though, YIP, that's VERY few and VERY far between.
So much so that it's not a practical option. Unless you have a daddy with deep pockets.