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CAL Merger Plans

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Hasn't Kellner been saying this for years? He would like for CAL to remain independent; but if the industry consolidates, CAL would be forced to participate in order to remain competitive. Nothing new.

Furloughed
 
Nothing new here... It a whole lot of nothing.

Employees are the last to know when an merger comes down, did any one see USairways and Delta... no.

Rumors have been floating around CAL merging with Delta, NWA, and UAL for the past 10 years. I wont buy any of it until I read a press release with soem real info.
 
messy?? I dont think so, Flatspins got it right.......I will believe it when I see it, until then CAL will go alone! :-)
 
Furloughed80 said:
Hasn't Kellner been saying this for years? He would like for CAL to remain independent; but if the industry consolidates, CAL would be forced to participate in order to remain competitive. Nothing new.

Furloughed
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Gordon Bethune used to say CAL wouldn't join an alliance becuase they had a strangle hold on EWR and that was a strong point for CAL. Then they joined SkyTeam. Ooops.

They may say one thing but you don't know what's going on. I think CAL would jump on the merger wagon instead of getting left behind.
 
Captain Overs said:
Gordon Bethune used to say CAL wouldn't join an alliance becuase they had a strangle hold on EWR and that was a strong point for CAL. Then they joined SkyTeam. Ooops.

They may say one thing but you don't know what's going on. I think CAL would jump on the merger wagon instead of getting left behind.
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Again, isn't that what Kellner has been saying for years? CAL most probably would jump on the merger wagon. We are all just waiting for the merger wagon to arrive. That is, if it ever does arrive. I don't think the question is whether CAL will or will not participate in industry wide consolidation. The question is if industry wide consolidation will ever occur. I don't know the answer to that question......and neither do you.

Furloughed
 
Furloughed80 said:
Again, isn't that what Kellner has been saying for years? CAL most probably would jump on the merger wagon. We are all just waiting for the merger wagon to arrive. That is, if it ever does arrive. I don't think the question is whether CAL will or will not participate in industry wide consolidation. The question is if industry wide consolidation will ever occur. I don't know the answer to that question......and neither do you.

Furloughed
Click to expand...

If you look back at history then mergers WILL HAPPEN. It's just a matter of when not if.
 
Jim Oberstar, new Chairman of the Transportation sub Committee, represents MN. If NWA doesn't want to merge with anyone, they will talk to him first. He has already denounced merging companies due to lack of consumer choice. Read other thread on his personal views. Now, if NWA had no chance to succeed and was in iminent danger of liquidating, then he might reconsider I suppose.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Anyone have retirement numbers for the next 10 years? Also, how will raising age 60 affect new-hires? I've heard everything from a negligible impact due to early-outs/medicals to cutting hiring in half. If this legislation changes it will probably take a few years before it becomes law, right?

A NWA merger would be better than UAL because their retirment numbers are similar to CAL's.
 
Will try to help looking at some old data. Active Pilots. NWA 5255, CAL 4425. NWA 423 Furloughs. 9566 active combined, 10125 total. Approx 3720 retirements next 10 years not counting early and medical estimates. Show CAL with 950 retires next 4 years, NWA with 640 next 4 years. Last 6 years a little more even. NWA 1170 retires, CAL 960. First 2 years total retires 860. Next 8 years approx. 375 year. Does relect some RET, DRP, MED. and LTS pilots. NWA will prob. have all furlough pilots back by end of next summer and will hire in the fall. Pass the advil.
 
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From Jan. '07 until Dec. '17 Cal will retire 2225. 263 in '07 and very close to an average of 200 per year after that, obviously not counting early-outs or medicals.
 
fortunately or unfortunately UAL and CAL will merge if DAL/USAIR merge. NWA has little say...even with the spoiler share.
 
GogglesPisano said:
Anyone have retirement numbers for the next 10 years? Also, how will raising age 60 affect new-hires? I've heard everything from a negligible impact due to early-outs/medicals to cutting hiring in half. If this legislation changes it will probably take a few years before it becomes law, right?

A NWA merger would be better than UAL because their retirment numbers are similar to CAL's.
Click to expand...

By Dec 2016, NWA will retire approx. 2490 pilots at age 60. That's half the list. These are #'s out of the "seniority crystall ball" posted on the NWA-ALPA website.
 
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SuperKooter said:
As long as its not with NWA i'll be happy and as long as Kellner is still in-charge as well as all of the CAL managment.
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Dude, did you ever pay attention in school? Do you know what a sentence is? When you write four sentences in one, you sound like a freaking moron.
 
Yuppyguppy said:
fortunately or unfortunately UAL and CAL will merge
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Why does everyone insist that this is a certainty between these two carriers?

Is it b/c some "financial expert" said their routes match up the best?

What about their fleets?

And their employee groups (who tried to almost literally tried to kill each other in the late 80's early 90's)?

I'm not saying that one (or both) of these carriers WON'T be involved in a merger, but I'm just curious why EVERYONE seems to think these two will get hitched.
 
Captain X,

I think it is because United is the airline that Kellner has mentioned several times as the one that would work the best, primarily because of their route structures.
 
SteelerMan said:
Captain X,

I think it is because United is the airline that Kellner has mentioned several times as the one that would work the best, primarily because of their route structures.
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When he talked to our new-hire class, what I heard was "We are interested in their Heathrow and Pacific routes. Their fleet leaves a lot to be desired"
 
How does our fleet leave a lot to be desired? Just asking honestly - I know we have our issues, but our fleet is the youngest out there.

Thanks!
 
Yuppyguppy said:
fortunately or unfortunately UAL and CAL will merge if DAL/USAIR merge. NWA has little say...even with the spoiler share.
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Dunno if a UAL or CAL deal is imminent or even possible...

...but I do know that you're mistaken on your second point.

NWA doesn't own a "spoiler share". The CAL BOD signed a 25-year agreement in the summer of 1998 with NWA. It restricts transactions that the CAL Board can make without the consent of the NWA Board. It was done in anticipation of the situation the industry is in right now...consolidation maneuvering.

Unless somebody wants to pay NWA a buttload of money to buy out the agreement, the NWA Board will determine whether or not CAL merges, acquires, joins, dates, kisses, or humps another airline. Period.
 
...unless NWA merges with another airline. then all bets are off and CAL can do as they please. and CAL can buy anyone they want...they just can't be bought without NWA consent.
 
BID said:
According to Bethune, CAL can acquire another airline, NWA has no say in that. True?
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Nope. Bethune knows better. He was there when the commercial agreement was signed in 1998.

One of the 6 restrictions is CAL acquiring another airline...of any size.

The SEC filing docs got a lot publicity at NWA right after the deal was done. NWA created a holding company called "Newbridge" to buy Bonderman's control of CAL (and his 15% equity stake). When the DoJ said "nyet" to NWA holding control without a full merger, the commercial agreement was forged. Essentially, it was a Hobson's Choice for the CAL Board. If they wanted "full control" of their corporation, they had to sign the deal.

The deal has not been superceded, and has successorship language that is not affected by Chapter 11.
 
Palomino said:
...unless NWA merges with another airline. then all bets are off and CAL can do as they please. and CAL can buy anyone they want...they just can't be bought without NWA consent.
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Huh?

The commercial agreement is dependent upon the terms of such a merger. If NWA is merged,then the successors or assignees hold the agreement.
 
UALfurloughee said:
How does our fleet leave a lot to be desired? Just asking honestly - I know we have our issues, but our fleet is the youngest out there.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Just repeating what we were told in a new-hire by Larry and Jeff.

CAL:

Doesn't want Boeings in different configurations/powerplants. Seems reconfiguring the ATA 757-300's was more pain than they hoped.

Doesn't want 747's -- doesn't want anything with more than two motors...and they are trying to figure out a way to get ETOPS approval to shut one down intentionally to save gas -- j/k ;)

Doesn't want Classic 737's -- getting nothing but NGs. We're putting winglets on some Classics b/c the price was right (next to nothing) and the added fuel efficiency + future resale return is worth it.

Doesn't want Airbuses -- good thing going with Boeing and would have to get the busses for "free" to incur the added pilot training costs and maintenance/stores/parts issues that would arise. Plus, they said they still have nightmares from the A300 days of long ago. I guess Airbus was not a pleasurable company to deal with.

Are you refering to CAL when you talk about the youngest fleet? 'Cuz that's what they tell us...that we (CAL) has the youngest fleet in the US...of course that's probably what they told new-hires at NWA :D
 

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