PAX vs Freight

[Whine Lover]

This has been covered many times. Everyone has their personal opinion / preference. This is only MY experience and/or opinion. Ya'll are welcome to yours...

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I've worked for two airlines:

-One Cargo/Freight

-One Pax

The freight job ended up being half day and half night flying. And I only flew, on average, 7.8 days per month over my six year tenure as a Freight Dog.

At the pax job I generally fly, on average, about 14 days per month.

Short and sweet?....I'll never fly freight again.

Why?...Read the thread about the mice dying early when they had their body clocks jacked around.

I can tell you from experience that pulling that all-nighter will make you feel like you are hungover without even having had the pleasure of the drunken debauchery prior. It's no fun, and you start to dread going to work on those trips that you know you will be up all night.

If you don't die early, after years of feeling like Krap...you get to collect the "Pot of Gold" at the end of the rainbow. ( Retirement ) Good Luck with that Lottery. That's how it is at ANY airline. BUT realistically, you will have less of a chance of making it to 60 when you mess with your circadian rythms constantly over a period of years.

Also, as somebody previously mentioned, it really does suck eating dinner and watching all the other crews heading into the hotel bar. Then, when you come down to the lobby at 10pm they are stumbling out and ready for A) the Room Party with the FA's, B) Letterman / Leno, or C) rubbing one out if the Room Party doesn't "work out".

You, on the other hand, WANT to go to sleep...but you are drinking coffee so you can stay awake and fly with 2 old,fat guys so you can get to the Hub / Sort and tap your toes from 2-6 am. Only to repeat the process so that you can get to some hotel at 9am and try to get some sleep with the maids banging around in the halls and all the doors slamming as people leave to check out.

Some of my buddies from my previous life stayed in night freight...their wives / kids / financial needs / mortgages forced them too.They are at: ABX, FDX, UPS, DHL and a handful of other outfits. They are all good enough friends to tell me the TRUTH : "I don't like my job. The money is great."

On the other hand here's a good example you might learn from:

My buddy was an Emery DC-8 Captain. He was Senior enough to hold Postal Contract flying which afforded him the luxury of mostly day flying. However, there were many times he had to fly the regular Night Hub. He was making about $140-150,000 / yr.

All I ever heard from him was how he hated the thought of going to work most of the time. Finally, I told him.."Shut up. YOU are the one who has flown for three freight airlines, why do you keep doing something you don't like?"

He quit and went to work for Spirit as a $30,000/yr DC-9 FO.

He has never been happier. And, he certainly looks better due to having lost 30 pounds and getting to sleep on the "right side of the clock".

IMHO:

"Night Freight = Right side of the pay scale. Wrong side of the airport. Wrong side of the clock."

And remember...Two "wrongs" never make a "right".


YKW

 

[landlover]

i'm starting to feel the same way

 

[AdlerDriver]

This has been covered many times......

So, what makes you think anyone wanted to hear it again? Who are you trying to convince anyway. You're where you want to be so what's the issue.

Ain't it great that you found something you like and I did too? Since we all can't have the same job, it's nice that not everyone wants to do the same thing.

I love night freight and working at Fedex is great. I sleep like a baby from 0700 to at least 1500. I wake up feeling great and enjoy going to work. I don't even try to nap on the turn because I got so much sleep during the day. There ain't a room party in the world that's worth more than the piece of mind I have thanks to a good contract, a successful company and job security. To each his own.

 

[Whine Lover]

I figured maybe some of the younger guys with decisions to make might want a brief analysis and one man's point of view.

Why so defensive?

I'm glad you are happy where you are at.

Good Luck to all in this whacked out flying business.

YKW

P.S. - I think you mean "peace" of mind. A "piece" of mind would be the cells that are dying off like the mice in the sleep experiment. Doh!

 

[AdlerDriver]

Thanks for the spelling lesson.

Defensive? I don't know how you get that. I was just trying to figure out why you felt the need to post a "War and Peace" version of the reasons for a choice you've already made and are happy with. If you think it will help someone, post away.

If I had to sit for the sort from 0200-0600 and not get to a hotel until 0900, I probably wouldn't like it as much. Our sort typically goes from 2300-0300. It's a rare situation where I'm not in my hotel room by 0700.

And all this assumes I WANT to fly nights. I happen to like it. I do have a choice if I want to stay senior in my seat and fly days. Something for everyone.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

We get it Whine lover.

You hate changing your sleep cycle. Many pilots have sleep issues and they get worse as you get older.

You love FA's.

You love the terminal vs. the freight side of the airport.


Don't try to glamorize it anymore than that. Unless you want to continue to try to convince yourself of the eminently profound decision process you have come up with. We don't all want the same thing. And not one type of pilot lifestyle is the only the "right" lifestyle. Get off the high horse before you fall off.

You would be better off just posting facts and what particulars you find good or bad.


BTW, you missed a point.

The pax biz is INCREDIBLY competitive and things change very quickly. Like who is doing well and growing vs. who is downsizing and losing money. While it is true new airlines very often fail, sometimes they do well. And there are a lot of new entrants to the pax biz right now.

Everyone is all giddy how SWA is raising fares $5 here and $7 there. Guess what, this is fueling the dreams of investment bankers as they fund $8 Bill takeover tries. It may be good for SWA but is REALLY good for all the other players. You'll see.

I wish you well but the pax biz, IMHO, has equal risks.

 

[HoursHore]

Thank God you Posted this twice!!!

I might have missed these Pearls of Wisdom!!!

Too each their own. I know I made the right decision for me on the 1st and 15th of every month and every time I walk thru a terminal. (Esp around the holidays.)

 

[ASA]

YKW

P.S. - I think you mean "peace" of mind. A "piece" of mind would be the cells that are dying off like the mice in the sleep experiment. Doh!

Sir, before you attempt to correct others, I urge you first to go through your original post with a basic English guide. I see spelling errors, grammar errors, and far too many "quotes" for emphasis. High school writing, at best.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

I want to correct some misinformation that pax flying is mostly daytime. I'm new with Continental on the 757/767 flying 90% to Europe. We leave Newark around 700-900 pm arriving over there around 300-400 am Eastern time. We lay over for 24 hours. That means the next day we get up around midnight-200 am Eastern (bodyclock) time. So in effect we are flying a double redeye on every 3 day trip which is pretty standard for Newark 757/767 crews. Then when we do fly domestic there are a fair number of transcon redeyes on the return flight. There are a handful of domestic daytime one day trips but by far the majority of us fly the international double redeyes. The 777 crews fly even more whacked out bodyclock trips. So don't use the daytime flying argument when it comes to passenger airlines. I just wanted to make that clarification.

 

[Whine Lover]

ASA,

Um..it really wasn't an attempt to correct the spelling.

Rather, it was an attempt at humor.

And, I happen to like quotation marks. Much as e.e. cummings refused to use capitals. Can I have a bit of "poetic license" here?

Thanks.


YKW

 

[Whine Lover]

SkyWest,

Correct. That's why I don't fly Widebody International either.


YKW

 

[Whine Lover]

FBJ,

"You love FA's."

- Not really.

"You would be better off just posting facts and what particulars you find good or bad."

- Um... I think thats exactly what I did. (?)


And, I agree...the stability of the career on the pax side is tenuous at best. If money and stability are one's motivators, by all means they should try to get on with FDX, UPS etc.


YKW

 

[Whine Lover]

"Thank God you Posted this twice!!!"


No problem. Anything I can do to help.


YKW

 

[ASA]

And, I happen to like quotation marks. Much as e.e. cummings refused to use capitals. Can I have a bit of "poetic license" here?

You may.

As to your post, I would agree with the previous poster about international flying and add:

Passenger flying of course is mostly during the day. But, there are plenty of nights getting to the hotel at 1:00 a.m. or even later, or waking up at 4:00 a.m., or international flying, or red-eyes. It's not exactly a 9-5 job until you get very senior.

Freight flying obviously is mostly at night. But I see plenty of FedEx and UPS airplanes flying around in the afternoons. It's harder on your body overall than passenger flying, but there's a lot of gray area. It's not all black and white.

 

[QuasarZ]

I, on the other hand as it seems, liked this post. It helps with future decisions!
Thanks

 

[Big Beer Belly]

If money and stability are one's motivators, by all means they should try to get on with FDX, UPS etc.


YKW

That is one of the funniest things I've ever read on this board!

I'm sure most would rather have a career of multiple bankruptcies and furloughs, low pay, and crappy working conditions! LOL!!

Some enjoy cleaning the airplane between flights, others prefer the delight of asking the #1 for permission to take a potty break. Still others enjoy choking down an endless stream of Big Macs and burritos and shy away from the scariness of international destinations and being away from momma overnight. Many passenger pilots also tell me they delight in minimum wage TSA "wand wavers" sniffing their breath first thing in the morning and others just relish the simplicity their golden years will be without all the stress of managing a large retirement portfolio. Many are gamblers at heart and eagerly anticipate what awaits them as their carrier merges with several others or what the aftermath of another terrorist attack might bring.

Lots to consider when making a career choice but I guess I'm old-fashioned in choosing money and stability.

BBB

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Freight Doesn't Bitch.
I spent 2 years a Polar between USAIRWAYS 1 and USAIRWAYS 2.
Some things really stink about freight, but I feel the positives out-weight the negatives in freight.
Passenger gets less and less enjoyable as my career goes on.

 

[AC560]

I'm sure most would rather have a career of multiple bankruptcies and furloughs, low pay, and crappy working conditions! LOL!!

Beats being chased by machete wielding gangs ;>

 

[propjob27]

I've flown for five airlines. 4 pax, 1 freight.

Here's my take:

I enjoyed my JOB flying pax more several reasons:

• Right side of the airport (I like being able to grab a Starschmucks Sandwich, BigMac, etc...)
• I actually enjoyed talking with, ie flirting with the FA's. I was fortunate enough to work for pax airlines that were actually decent in the FA hiring department, and I've been single my whole life and a had a good time with it. Those guys that say the FA's are bitc hes and 'boxes don't bitch' are probably guys that don't have an ounce of personality, and never got laid by an FA. If you occasionally got to bang them, it made the layovers WAAYY more enjoyable than just going to dinner and a bar with some 40+ year old captain and talking about work bulls h it.
• The hours. Yes, the international flying on the pax side totally throws this perk out the window, you may as well be flying freight. So do the 0400 wakeups for the 0500 van ride on the morning departures, I never enjoyed that. But in general, the short 737 type flying on the pax side was easier on my body.
• Nicer equipment. Pax airplanes, in general, are far cleaner, and newer than Cargo planes.

I enjoy my LIFE more flying freight:

• The pay. My checks on the 1st and 15th of the month as a widebody FO are:

-more than an 7 year captain at AirTran.
-the same as a 4 year captain at Frontier.
-more than a 6 year captain at Spirit.
-more than a 12 year 777 FO at CAL.
-more than a 12 year 777 FO at United, and the same as a 10 year 737 Captain
-the same as 9 year 777 FO at American.
-more than a 7 year FO at Southwest.
​

(disclaimer: The above statements are based on hourly rate vs hourly rate, via Airlinepilotpay.net At my company, I used our hourly rate of 128/hr, which is easily attainable as an FO with just over 1 year of senority. The statements are also based a guy who likes to work the bare minimum. Ie, simply flying your line, never working on a day off etc. Comparing one guy who just flys his line vs another guy who flys his line + days off would obviously change things. I understand that some of these companies may have work rule perks which could skew things one way or the other.)​

• The number of hours flown/days worked. I'm going to work far less, and flying less than the people at these other airlines and still getting paid as listed above.

• I've never once heard the words "furlough" and "concession" and "loss"

Conclusion?

There's two kinds of people. Live to work, or work to live? There are those of us who define ourselves by our occupations. Not just some pilots, but some doctors, some lawyers, some investment bankers, some cops, some firefigheters etc. And many of them are quite successful. For that type of person, having a fun, or important, or glamours job may be the most important thing in his life.

I am not that type of person. I am a "work to live" type of person. My job is far from the most important thing in my life. Flying freight affords me the luxry of enjoying my life outside of work (and having more of it) far more than flying pax did.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Beats being chased by machete wielding gangs ;>

I was thinking of taking up an exercise program anyway ... I simply figured that was as good a time as any to start training!

BBB