RJDC LITIGATION UPDATE November 7, 2006

[FDJ2]

RJDC Litigation Update November 7, 2006


In sworn depositions the RJDC lawsuit, which seeks among other things the elimination of the job protection elements of Collective Bargaining Agreements and the wholesale whipsaw of the industry, has suffered a serious set back.


Senior CMR MEC officials have admitted under oath that:

ASA and CMR flying is NOT highly integrated with Delta operations
and that DAL Scope is NOT a threat to the interests and collective bargaining power of ASA and CMR

That there is NO irreconcilable conflict of interest due to ALPA’s dual obligation to Delta pilots and the ASA and CMR pilots

That it would be inappropriate for a member of one MEC to enter uninvited into the negotiations of another MEC

That during the collective bargaining process MEC’s have the autonomy to make their own decisions, bargain for their own pilots and set their own strategies

That ALPA has NOT discriminated against the CMR pilots

That the PID request was improper and authored by Dan (Ford), not the CMR MEC Chairman

These stunning revelations, made under oath by CMR MEC officials, will only hasten the inevitable dismantling of an ill conceived and short sited lawsuit. At no time did any CMR MEC official, under oath, charge that ALPA’s action had been arbitrary, discriminatory or in bad faith.

 

[PCL_128]

Now that's a good RJDC update! :beer:

 

[FDJ2]

Now that's a good RJDC update! :beer:

Please feel free to have friends or yourselves cut and paste it and post it where ever you wish.

It's amazing, but this comes from sworn depositions of CMR MEC Officers.

Let the meltdown of Danny's lawsuit continue!

:beer:

 

[General Lee]

OOOOOOOhhhhh SNAP! (sorry Lazy RJDC guys!)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bvt1151]

So ALPA said ALPA didn't do anything wrong.

Hmm... Great news item! Even Sadam denied he did anything wrong.

You guys crack me up.

 

[FDJ2]

So ALPA said ALPA didn't do anything wrong.

Or, better yet, senior CMR MEC officers stated in sworn testimony that ALPA didn't do anything wrong.

I know you don't like it bvt, but these are devastating sworn statements by those who are elected by CMR pilots to represent CMR pilots.

bye, bye, RJDC

 

[Terrain Terrain]

"ALPA Admits it Withheld Crucial Information from the Piedmont and Allegheny Pilots."

god i hate ALPA

 

[PCL_128]

So ALPA said ALPA didn't do anything wrong.

No, actually, the representative who originally petitioned for your beloved PID admitted that it was not the right thing to do and that the language within the resolution was inaccurate.

 

[fastback]

The RJDC's plan makes about as much sense to me as the Underpants Gnomes'.

 

[PCL_128]

The RJDC's plan makes about as much sense to me as the Underpants Gnomes'.

Step 1: File silly lawsuit
Step 2: ????????
Step 3: ALPA's fixed!!!

 

[Terrain Terrain]

step 1: hook up mainline
step 2. screw regional pilots
step 3. LIE
step 4. take 2% from everyone
step 5. reps dont fly the line
step 6. drive a wedge in mngt/pilot relations (job security)
step 7. make regional pilots feel like real pilots because they pay dues also
step 8. stick it in each other
step 9. go to the lake cabin paid for by regional pilots dues
step 10. laugh, ahhhahahahahah


(ALPA handbook)

 

[bvt1151]

Well good luck with your smear campaign. Let me know if you're ever interested in facts.

 

[FDJ2]

Well good luck with your smear campaign. Let me know if you're ever interested in facts.

These are the facts. This is from the depositions of senior CMR MEC officers made by thye RJDC attorney. I know it must be painful for an RJDC supporter to finally realize that Dan Ford and company have been pulling the wool over your eyes all these years.

Expect more RJDC Litigation Updates and Fact in the near future.

 

[737 Pylt]

These are the facts. This is from the depositions of senior CMR MEC officers made by thye RJDC attorney. I know it must be painful for an RJDC supporter to finally realize that Dan Ford and company have been pulling the wool over your eyes all these years.

Expect more RJDC Litigation Updates and Fact in the near future.

FDJ2:

How dare you post facts and figures on the rjdc lawsuit! How in the world do you expect danno and co. to get these idiots to keep the $$ coming in.
Remember, they're all gonna be 767 captains according to danny boy!
737
I just love seeing these losers fall flat on their faces!

 

[tico]

FDJ2:

How dare you post facts and figures on the rjdc lawsuit! How in the world do you expect danno and co. to get these idiots to keep the $$ coming in.
Remember, they're all gonna be 767 captains according to danny boy!
737
I just love seeing these losers fall flat on their faces!

I can say that I have no idea what the basis for the "RJDC" lawsuit was but can you answer me this.....

I choose to stay at my ALPA carrier where I have accrued longevity which affords me a certain lifestyle. And my expectation is that my ALPA carrier will continue to grow and modernize and get new bigger airplanes that will pay me more. The pilot group at the ALPA carrier that owns my ALPA carrier negotiates to restrict the size and number of aircraft that my ALPA carrier operates and therefore directly impact the lifestyle and earnings potential that I can expect.

A. should I not be a party to those negotiations( since it is my union)
B. should I be happy about those negotiations
C. should I not work diligently to prevent that sort of negotiation from happening again at my union.

 

[FDJ2]

A. should I not be a party to those negotiations( since it is my union)

No you should not. Should Delta pilots be a part of your negotiations, should mainline ALPA pilots be part of your ratification process. Of course not. The ALPA Constitution and By-Laws give each MEC a great deal of autonomy in negotiations. Your pilot group was aware of the ALPA C&BLs when it sought ALPA representation.

B. should I be happy about those negotiations

Even pilots who are a part of these negotiations often are not happy with them. Being a part does not guarantee happiness.

C. should I not work diligently to prevent that sort of negotiation from happening again at my union.

ALPA has it's own internal structure for change and ALPA is a democratic organization. If you want change, just convince the majority you're right. It will take a great deal of hard work on your part to convince the majority of pilots that they don't have the right to negotiate scope protections, but if that's the nirvana you seek, go for it sport.

 

[tico]

A. should I not be a party to those negotiations( since it is my union)

No you should not. Should Delta pilots be a part of your negotiations, should mainline ALPA pilots be part of your ratification process. Of course not. The ALPA Constitution and By-Laws give each MEC a great deal of autonomy in negotiations. Your pilot group was aware of the ALPA C&BLs when it sought ALPA representation.

B. should I be happy about those negotiations

Even pilots who are a part of these negotiations often are not happy with them. Being a part does not guarantee happiness.

C. should I not work diligently to prevent that sort of negotiation from happening again at my union.

ALPA has it's own internal structure for change and ALPA is a democratic organization. If you want change, just convince the majority you're right. It will take a great deal of hard work on your part to convince the majority of pilots that they don't have the right to negotiate scope protections, but if that's the nirvana you seek, go for it sport.

FDJ2....Do you think that any other union on the planet anywhere would allow members from one local to negotiate against another local.....you must be running for public office somewhere with answers like those....This is exactly why alpa pilots will continue to get bent every time they
negotiate.....Why don't you stop thiinking like a Delta pilot for a minute and start thinking like a union pilot.....If it is not good for everyone than it is no good for anyone...that is unity my friend and if you had any of it you would not have been flushed down the toilet in your latest negotiations

 

[Catbird]

Get back under Duane's desk FDJ2 with your boyfriend PCL128. Please stop makeing those squealing sounds everytime someone new enters the room. Duane will be leaving soon and he might not give you boys anymore treats.

 

[FDJ2]

If it is not good for everyone than it is no good for anyone...that is unity my friend and if you had any of it you would not have been flushed down the toilet in your latest negotiations

Unity, you want to talk about unity when you support a lawsuit that seeks to undermine a collective bargaining agreement. You support an organization like the RJDC that believes that pilots do not have the right to scope their own airlines code to protect their jobs. You have no right to speak of unity in this matter. Even the CMR MEC Chairman agrees that the Delta pilots have a right to set their own negotiating strategies. Get yourself educated on this issue.

Flushed down the toilet? Sorry Tico, I don't agree with your assessment. Perhaps we should compare work rules, pay rates, defined contribution plans, 401k plans, Money Purchase Pension Plans between our two carriers and see who is doing better. If you work for CMR how much of a Claim do you think you'll get when you exit BK, how much of a $note$ will you get? Again get yourself educated on the issues and the facts.

 

[FDJ2]

Get back under Duane's desk FDJ2 with your boyfriend PCL128. Please stop makeing those squealing sounds everytime someone new enters the room. Duane will be leaving soon and he might not give you boys anymore treats.

"Sorry. I don't speak retardese. Can you get someone to translate into meaningful English before you post, please? Trying to get something of value out of your post is like trying to squeeze orange juice out of an apple. Why is it that the people with the smallest minds always have the biggest mouths? A long period of non-posting would be most welcome on your part. I suggest you need Mark Twain's advice; "It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Why don't you shrink your head and use it as a paperweight? It's not much use for writing intelligent posts with, that's for sure. If you're going to say something that ignorant, you could at least fake a stroke. You've got a big hole in your head, now shut it. When you are at a loss for words, your loss is our gain. To quote Thomas Brackett Reed: "They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge."

To sum up: you are about as smart as your rubber bow tie and two left shoes suggest, Bozo. Now, go curl back up in your corner, and continue chewing on your toenails. "

author unknown, but an appropriate response I believe.

 

[tico]

Unity, you want to talk about unity when you support a lawsuit that seeks to undermine a collective bargaining agreement. You support an organization like the RJDC that believes that pilots do not have the right to scope their own airlines code to protect their jobs. You have no right to speak of unity in this matter. Even the CMR MEC Chairman agrees that the Delta pilots have a right to set their own negotiating strategies. Get yourself educated on this issue.

Flushed down the toilet? Sorry Tico, I don't agree with your assessment. Perhaps we should compare work rules, pay rates, defined contribution plans, 401k plans, Money Purchase Pension Plans between our two carriers and see who is doing better. If you work for CMR how much of a Claim do you think you'll get when you exit BK, how much of a $note$ will you get? Again get yourself educated on the issues and the facts.

Calm down my man...You just assued that i work for ComAir and you just assumed that I support RJDC...Well both are wrong assumptions...

My original question was just that A question .....I absolutely don't have a bone in this fight either way.....I understand the desire to keep flying within the native system but it seems that it is better to put the restrictions on going outside of the corporation/ holding company etc... and then work to make the rules within the holding company work for everyone.....youre paychecks all come from the same place ya know. It seems that the scope should be mostly directed at the Mesa's and Skywest's and Chatauqua's of the world and not some much at the home town crowd....... Again, it does not matter to me one way or the other

 

[FDJ2]

I understand the desire to keep flying within the native system but it seems that it is better to put the restrictions on going outside of the corporation/ holding company etc... and then work to make the rules within the holding company work for everyone.....

Tico, I couldn't agree more with the above. DAL ALPA did in fact negotiate some scope protections for CMR and ASA pilots in 2004, which required DAL to use ASA and CMR for a minimum of 50% of all DCI flying. That was a first step and an honest effort.

In order to get from where we are to where both you and I believe we should be is not going to be easy. It's going to take a great deal of collaborative effort and trust.

Unfortunately the RJDC litigation would seeks to prevent any scope language that would restrict the corporation from outsourcing DAL code flying to vendors whether they be wholly owned or not.

 

[N2264J]

DAL ALPA did in fact negotiate some scope protections for CMR and ASA pilots in 2004, which required DAL to use ASA and CMR for a minimum of 50% of all DCI flying. That was a first step and an honest effort.

That's what ALPA would have you believe but it wasn't an "honest effort" at all.

First two cavetates: 1) Delta had to be profitable and 2) both Comair and ASA had to be wholly owned

The minimun of 50% was never triggered because these two qualifiers were never met. And even if it happened, Comair, all by itself, was flying around 36% at the time. What that provision of your contract did, in fact, was telegraph to management that Comair could be downsized (to @ 25%) and ALPA wouldn't lift a finger to prevent it.

And here we are today. Expect the public nashing of ALPA teeth but behind the scenes, our "union" actually facilitated the problem at the Delta negotiating table.

 

[acarpe3448]

Anyone here think that the Comair clowns will wake up and smell reality? I just can't believe that so many of them were willing to follow that retard Dan, and believe all his BS on this board. RJDC is dead! Comair is dying! They tried to take our places in a senority grab, filed suit when they saw it would not work, and surplus and danny clown ford disappear when they prove what idiots they are! Comair pilots get ready for more furloughs! HaHa! What comes around goes around!

 

[SuperKooter]

"ALPA Admits it Withheld Crucial Information from the Piedmont and Allegheny Pilots."

god i hate ALPA

Unions are legal organized criminals.

 

[PCL_128]

Unions are legal organized criminals.

I think it's your bedtime, junior.

 

[Terrain Terrain]

I think it's your bedtime, junior.

no its true and was admitted, ALPA verified that they screwed PDT/ALG to help out the mainline pilots. That one incident is all it should take for every regional pilot to decertify alpa tomorrow, they are not here for us guys, you are just giving more of your money away.

 

[PCL_128]

no its true and was admitted, ALPA verified that they screwed PDT/ALG to help out the mainline pilots. That one incident is all it should take for every regional pilot to decertify alpa tomorrow, they are not here for us guys, you are just giving more of your money away.

Looks like you've spent too much time reading Dan Ford's inane propaganda. ALPA verified no such thing. Do some research on your own and get informed instead of taking Dan's word for it.

 

[737 Pylt]

Looks like you've spent too much time reading Dan Ford's inane propaganda. ALPA verified no such thing. Do some research on your own and get informed instead of taking Dan's word for it.

C'mon PCL:

Didn't you know that Dan promised them all they'd be 767 captains and $$millionaires!?

737

 

[Terrain Terrain]

Looks like you've spent too much time reading Dan Ford's inane propaganda. ALPA verified no such thing. Do some research on your own and get informed instead of taking Dan's word for it.

typical pilot trapped at a crappy airline with a crappy contract that alpa is responsible for, talk about drinking cool-aid