Airline pilot pay

[bailey3083]

How are airline pilots payed? What is meant by "block hour" and "per diem" as it refers to pilot pay? In most jobs where people are payed a fixed salary or earn a certain rate per hour (no matter whether or not they are actually doing work).

So Jimmy you ever seen a grown man naked?

Jimmy you like it when Scruffy rubs on your leg?

Jimmy do you like gladiator movies?

 

[Kip Dynomite]

Watching at least 4 hours of COPS per week helps with the depression I experience when cashing my pay checks.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

How about these numbers for some statistics.

In the United States...

Average income per household: $46,325
Average income per household with two income earners: $67,348

Average income, males 25 or older: $33,517
Average income, females 25 or older: $19,679

Average salary with high school: $26,505
Avereage salary with bachelor's degree: $43,143
Average salary with some college: $31,04
Average salary with masters degree: $52,390
Average salary with PhD: $70,853

Since 2004, salaries are down 4%

My point? No matter where you look, people are working more, for less. Whether you are a pilot, or not. Management has learned that they can cut pay, and people still show up to work. Management has learned they can cut pay, and resumes still pour in .. whether it is ABX Airlines, or ABX corporation down the street. Management knows they can lay off the higher paid workers, and promote people from below, to those positions, and pay them half of the person's salary, who was just laid off. Management knows they can then hire a fresh new grad to take the place of the person who was just promoted, and then pay them half of that person's salary. And, the cycle continues. I've seen it happen time, and time again.

I think there is a big misconception among the general public, about what pilots make and work, and a misconception among pilots, about what others make and work. Truth is, nobody makes what is thought. You have your rare FedEx pilot making $250K, and you have your rare salesman making $250K. The majority fall well below that.

As Americans, we need to stand up to greedy corporate executives. As long as resumes keep pouring in, and people keep coming to work, they will keep cutting pay, whether it is the airlines, or other inustries .. because it is happening everywhere.

(End Rant)

 

[ex j-41]

This is how our company sees things....

An average person working 40hrs a week will work 2080 hrs/year. (No vacation holidays taken out).

Pilots on the other hand may work only 72hrs a month or 864 hrs/year.

This is what the media will see and report on.
So if you are making $25,000/year that is $29/hr. Way above national average.

But we all know this is crap. I average 200hrs of DUTY/month or 2400 hrs/year.
That works out to $10.5/hr.


Pay scales at www.airlinepilotpay.com should be calculated based on duty time not flight time. Cause this is the real number of what you are getting paid. SO a first year F/O at a regional making $20k is really earning $8/hr.
Corporate Greed!

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

If you look at the salaries pilots make, , after first year, they aren't really that bad, compared to what typical people are making. BUT .. you are right .. its not as much the salary, as much as it is the break down of duty time vs. actual pay.

That is another reason why people have a misconception about what pilots make. A first year FO makes $23 an hour, so in the minds of most, that is $55K, not $25K. They don't realize the hours actually paid, vs. the hours actually on duty, etc.

BUT ... It works that way in other jobs too, to some extent. People are working moret han 40 hours, for the most part, today, for the same money, or less than years ago; since most are on salary, not per hour. A good friend of mine graduated with a degree in computer information systems, is two years into his career, and makes $35K. The other week, he and many others at his company were at work until 2AM trying to finish a big project. They didn't get paid for that time either - he is on salary.

Executives are greedy and will do anything to scr3w workers out of money, to put more in their pockets.

 

[Green]

You are an airline pilot my friend. You are in charge of a 20-150 million dollar piece of machinery and anywhere from 19-450 lives. DO NOT compare yourself to a desk monkey working on spreadsheets and the like. No offense to your friend, but you need to realize the scope of your responsibilities.

If your friend screws up do people die? If you friend stays out drinking with you and shows up for work hung over does he end up on the cover of USA Today, CNN primetime, and possibly in jail? NO!

Don't sell yourself short.

Just out of curiosity were you an embry riddle/und grad?

 

[Green]

When you consider our daily responsibilities a GLA 1900 fo should be near the six figure mark IMHO

 

[HA25]

You are an airline pilot my friend. You are in charge of a 20-150 million dollar piece of machinery and anywhere from 19-450 lives. DO NOT compare yourself to a desk monkey working on spreadsheets and the like. No offense to your friend, but you need to realize the scope of your responsibilities. Just out of curiosity were you an embry riddle/und grad?

That's what I can't understand... why this is so hard for people to morally grasp. In the end, the amount of work it takes to get to where many of us are vs the guy selling used cars ($100,000 job in many places) is not the same.. and the time we spent "At work" is even worse than the 50hr/week car salesman..

the problem is in my signature block... it's an globalized economy, with corporate managers that don't think in terms of national boundary, but rather in terms of corporate boundaries and they'll take the $10/hr Indian or Chinese pilot and stick him in the right seat of the 747 if they can get away with it.. so why should they not take advantage of the whores we pilots have become?

Truth be told, as long as you can crack open an issue of Flying Magazine or AOPA Pilot and see a picture of a guy (or worse yet, a gal) in a pilots uniform sitting in the right seat of a 747-400 or MD-11, and an 1-800 phone number below that with a "Call now to become an Airline Pilot in 24 weeks" motto, we'll never see an end to it!

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

Guys, I'm not saying that pilots are paid plenty, and should just give this issue a rest. I believe pilots deserve every penny they do make, and more. My point is not that because my friend makes $35K as a computer grad, I shouldn't expect more as an RJ FO. My point is that, regardless of what profession you look at, people are working more, and making less; including pilots, and that we, as American workers, not just pilots, need to stand up and take a stand for what we deserve. By my pointing out what a desk jockey makes, is not my way of saying, see, we make more than them, or the same as them; it is to say that, that desk jockey is working 70 hrs per week, for the same, or less than your RJ CA salary. In others words, management is taking advantage of all workers, and we need to take a stand, as pilots, desk jockeys, or whatever job you are in, or nothing will change. Complaining about it does nothing; taking action does.

That's what I can't understand... why this is so hard for people to morally grasp. In the end, the amount of work it takes to get to where many of us are vs the guy selling used cars ($100,000 job in many places) is not the same.. and the time we spent "At work" is even worse than the 50hr/week car salesman..

the problem is in my signature block... it's an globalized economy, with corporate managers that don't think in terms of national boundary, but rather in terms of corporate boundaries and they'll take the $10/hr Indian or Chinese pilot and stick him in the right seat of the 747 if they can get away with it.. so why should they not take advantage of the whores we pilots have become?

Truth be told, as long as you can crack open an issue of Flying Magazine or AOPA Pilot and see a picture of a guy (or worse yet, a gal) in a pilots uniform sitting in the right seat of a 747-400 or MD-11, and an 1-800 phone number below that with a "Call now to become an Airline Pilot in 24 weeks" motto, we'll never see an end to it!

 

[HA25]

Guys, I'm not saying that pilots are paid plenty, and should just give this issue a rest. I believe pilots deserve every penny they do make, and more. My point is not that because my friend makes $35K as a computer grad, I shouldn't expect more as an RJ FO. My point is that, regardless of what profession you look at, people are working more, and making less; including pilots, and that we, as American workers, not just pilots, need to stand up and take a stand for what we deserve. By my pointing out what a desk jockey makes, is not my way of saying, see, we make more than them, or the same as them; it is to say that, that desk jockey is working 70 hrs per week, for the same, or less than your RJ CA salary. In others words, management is taking advantage of all workers, and we need to take a stand, as pilots, desk jockeys, or whatever job you are in, or nothing will change. Complaining about it does nothing; taking action does.

I agree with you, we've lost the fact that one should work to live, and not live to work.. this whole 6 day a week, 50+ hour a week mentality and the addition of Blackberry and Wireless Internet has turned time off into a thing of the past.. it doesn't help that we're in this "global" economy where we're competing in terms of productivity with India and China, which is total farse!

It almost seems hopeless unless we are able to hold our elected officials accountable.

 

[RemoveB4Flght]

If you can come up with a way to get people to pay for something they are too lazy/busy/inept to do themselves, you can make money. If you think about it, many professions are backwards in the amount we pay for various services. We tip a bartender sometimes 20-50% (varies directly with clevage) for pouring us a glass of overpriced alcohol. We tip our kid's 2nd grade teacher nothing. Doctors make a ton, but go through years of residency (what some might consider instructing and time in a right seat) and make good money becuase they are responsible for lives just like we are... lawyers are rich becuase the rest of us can't play nice in this big sand box and are unable to work problems out on our own.

If outsourcing wasn't bad enough... now many companies are finding ways to profit from the angst of those fed up with the thick accents of tech support from half way around the globe... Some companies are now charging a premium if you wish to only have an american answer your questions about how to program your ipod or defrag your dell.

The out most doctors have is that if a hospital tried cutting their pay as much as they do pilots... the option exists to go to private practice. If pilots followed suit, there would be no airlines, just a ton more fractionals and one/two man 135 ops. Ambulances would drive around trying to find the doctor's office that wasn't closed sundays... and the "pilot" section of the yellow pages would be 2 inches thick

 

[HA25]

.... and the "pilot" section of the yellow pages would be 2 inches thick

I we had it all over to do again, we should have had a national seniority number, and a single pilots "Guild" that all Commercial and above rated pilots must join to work.. then you would have had the tables turned around on the managers and the free market would have been working in our favor.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

If you can come up with a way to get people to pay for something they are too lazy/busy/inept to do themselves, you can make money. If you think about it, many professions are backwards in the amount we pay for various services. We tip a bartender sometimes 20-50% (varies directly with clevage) for pouring us a glass of overpriced alcohol. We tip our kid's 2nd grade teacher nothing. Doctors make a ton, but go through years of residency (what some might consider instructing and time in a right seat) and make good money becuase they are responsible for lives just like we are... lawyers are rich becuase the rest of us can't play nice in this big sand box and are unable to work problems out on our own.

If outsourcing wasn't bad enough... now many companies are finding ways to profit from the angst of those fed up with the thick accents of tech support from half way around the globe... Some companies are now charging a premium if you wish to only have an american answer your questions about how to program your ipod or defrag your dell.

The out most doctors have is that if a hospital tried cutting their pay as much as they do pilots... the option exists to go to private practice. If pilots followed suit, there would be no airlines, just a ton more fractionals and one/two man 135 ops. Ambulances would drive around trying to find the doctor's office that wasn't closed sundays... and the "pilot" section of the yellow pages would be 2 inches thick

You are right, and even doctors don't make as much as they used to. Both of my parents work in the healthcare industry. Most doctors today, unless they are a specialist of some kind (heart, etc.) do not make more than even a junior captain at American or Delta, yet go through 10+ years of medical school. And, the average med. school grad is in $200K of debt.

A lot of times, we like to focus on those very few in various professions pulling in large salaries. If you ever do a little research, you find that average salaries across America, in almost every career field, is significantly lower than what is often thought, and it is a growing problem.

 

[pilotyip]

25K entry level

Pilot don't make $25K for their entire career, it is an entry level wage. Making $100K/yr is this business is very doable, and much more than this at many upper level companies. As supported by pilotonrise, it is in the upper level of income in the US. To be able to do something your really like and be in the upper income of the US is a dream very few people will ever realize.

 

[tie1on]

if the pay is so bad quit and do something else,,,,or you can't do anyting else


ha