Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Virgin Turbulence

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

GogglesPisano

Pawn, in game of life
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Posts
3,939
Virgin America causing turbulence in US airspace
Tuesday August 15, 2:10 pm ET
By Chris Reiter


NEW YORK (Reuters) - Start-up U.S. air carrier Virgin America Inc. has not flown a plane or even gotten a license to operate, but it is already creating turbulence in the U.S. airline industry.
Incumbent carriers, led by Continental Airlines Inc. (NYSE:CAL - News), have lobbied hard to keep Virgin America from getting off the ground.

ADVERTISEMENT


Those efforts, which have slowed Virgin America's efforts to gain U.S. government approval to start flying, show how intense competition is in the U.S. airline industry and how fragile its recent recovery may be.

"For the first time in six years roughly, the airlines are starting to experience some profitability, and the last thing that the domestic carriers want to see is new competition," said Dan Petree, dean of the college of business at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University.

Virgin America has until Wednesday to respond to industry objections to its application for an airline license, which was initially filed last December. The U.S. Department of Transportation then has up to 180 days to make a decision on whether to allow the airline to operate.

Continental and others have attacked Virgin America's links to British-based Virgin Group (VA.UL), which holds a 25 percent stake in the company, lends the airline its brand and has promised to provide financing.

The airlines say that Richard Branson's Virgin Group, which has stakes in airlines in Europe, Australia, and Nigeria, effectively controls the U.S. airline in violation of U.S. law, which restricts foreign control of domestic airlines.

"We have absolutely no opposition to start-up discount airlines," said Continental spokesman Dave Messing. "Our only concern is that, since we abide by U.S. laws, our competitors also abide by U.S. laws."

Virgin America says it's controlled by U.S. citizens and conforms with U.S. law. It says rival airlines are using the foreign control argument to limit competition.

U.S. law prohibits a foreign equity stake in a U.S. airline of more than 25 percent, ostensibly for the sake of national security.

A NEW JETBLUE?

Six years ago, JetBlue Airways Corp. (NASDAQ:JBLU - News) breezed through the approval process without the big airlines putting up much of a fuss, but that was before the September 11, 2001 attacks pushed the airline industry into a recession that led to billions of dollars in losses. And JetBlue's rapid growth, despite the industry's malaise, showed that new competitors needed to be taken seriously.

Virgin America plans to enter the market armed with $177 million in start-up capital, with the majority coming from private equity investors Black Canyon Capital and Cyrus Capital Partners. This funding represents the largest seed capital of any start-up U.S. airline, surpassing the $130 million initially raised by JetBlue.

"About three-quarters of capacity is dominated by incumbents who have a cost structure that is 25 to 50 percent higher than new-generation companies," said Fred Reid, chief executive of Virgin America and a former president and chief operating officer at Delta Air Lines Inc. (Other OTC:DALRQ.PK - News). "It's a massive business opportunity."

But it will take the airline time to build up momentum. "In the first 24 to 36 months, I don't think they will be large enough to make much of a measurable impact," said Tim Sieber, general manager of airline consultancy The Boyd Group.

Virgin America, which says it could start flying within weeks of receiving its license, plans to position itself as a low-cost, high-perks airline. It says it will have in-flight entertainment features that go beyond JetBlue's satellite television offering.

Virgin America has 33 Airbus planes on order, but plans to start operation with just two to four aircraft. Reid says that the airline has the ability to grow its fleet at a rate of one to two planes a month indefinitely.

The airline intends to first fly between San Francisco and New York. Brian Clark, Virgin America's vice president of planning and sales, says the airlines is aiming for 20 routes in two years.

Good news for other airlines is that Virgin America has profits, rather than growth, as its top priority, which means starting a ticket price war is not its most likely strategy. "Our goal is to be financially successful," says Reid. "I don't care if I'm a mega-airline or a boutique airline."
 
At least service will improve. Its high time we airline employees started treating passengers like revenue rather than giving them the "you're lucky to be flying with us" attitude.
 
GogglesPisano said:
Virgin America causing turbulence in US airspace
Tuesday August 15, 2:10 pm ET
By Chris Reiter


Virgin America plans to enter the market armed with $177 million in start-up capital, with the majority coming from private equity investors Black Canyon Capital and Cyrus Capital Partners. This funding represents the largest seed capital of any start-up U.S. airline, surpassing the $130 million initially raised by JetBlue.

Another dude with inacurate info!!

Independence Air had over $300m in start-up capital.
 
JJET44 said:
Another dude with inacurate info!!

Independence Air had over $300m in start-up capital.


Sort of true. IDE did have about $300 mil except that there were over 100 aircraft on day one. Significantly more assets to pay for and maintain than any start-up beginning like JB or VA.

With little assets to pay for and maintain, even $50 mil will be more usable than IDE's $300 mil.
 
Last edited:
accinelli said:
At least service will improve. Its high time we airline employees started treating passengers like revenue rather than giving them the "you're lucky to be flying with us" attitude.

Your kidding...right?
 
accinelli said:
At least service will improve. Its high time we airline employees started treating passengers like revenue rather than giving them the "you're lucky to be flying with us" attitude.

"Your kidding...right?"

My sentiments exactly! Maybe if "we airline employees" stop continuously getting it up the arse, that would happen!
 
If I find that a particular passenger is a loyal customer, I will move mountains to make his/her flight better in any way. But most pax these days simply choose the cheapest fare, then moan about the lack of steak and lobster.

I will be courteous and professional, but I will not suck up to someone who is paying less than the cost of the fuel to haul their 350 pound butt to Cancun.
 
Gorilla said:
If I find that a particular passenger is a loyal customer, I will move mountains to make his/her flight better in any way. But most pax these days simply choose the cheapest fare, then moan about the lack of steak and lobster.

I will be courteous and professional, but I will not suck up to someone who is paying less than the cost of the fuel to haul their 350 pound butt to Cancun.

Gorilla is right...customers today are looking at the cheapest fair and not at the name of the company. I remember one snow event in the northeast where many flights were cancelled and the local news team was there. they interviewed a guy that had purchased an IAD to MCO fair for $129 ( I don't recall the airline). His complaint was that there was not provided a hotel room and food vouchers for each meal he missed! This guy was truly sincere and pissed off. This is the mentality you have today. In 1972 it cost about $500 to go on the Eastern Shuttle from JFK to BOS. Considering inflation, this would now be $1870 for ONE LEG! Oddly enough, no one complained then.

Mike
 
It's no difference that most of the pilots going to Walmart to shop and then complaining about the average products and long lines (i.e. poor service) and then doing it all over again.

Classic case of the "pot calling the kettle black."
 
I for one do not shop at walmart. There is no brand loyalty, or price. As a pilot, what impact do I have on the customer anyway? Do they really care about me other than if I get them there on time without scaring the crap out of them?

It is interesting that you mention walmart since that is what happening to our industry. Management expects us to subsidize the low fares and high oil prices with lower pay, poor benefits and vanishing retirements. Why shouldn't I be excited to welcome the trash on the aircraft...they did put their mostly clean wife beater on for the flight.

Pull your head out.

accinelli said:
It's no difference that most of the pilots going to Walmart to shop and then complaining about the average products and long lines (i.e. poor service) and then doing it all over again.

Classic case of the "pot calling the kettle black."
 
You hit it on the head when you said, "As a pilot, what impact do I have on the customer anyway? Do they really care about me other than if I get them there on time without scaring the crap out of them?"

Now with all the FAs, Ground Employees and every other forward facing employee with the same attitude -- you got a good shot of having a company that can compete with the Legacy Carriers.

One more reason we need the B6s, AirTrans, and the Virgin Americas out there.
 
I saw virgin turbulance and thought this was about something else.....oh well!!
 
Airline 101

The airline business is a labor intensive one. It takes an army of laborers to keep an airline flying day after day, year after year. There is no getting around this fact. To be a success in the airline business an airline must be led by a management team who’s primary goal is to make that airline a success. If airline employees can look to their
management team and know that team is working to make their airline a successful one they will be motivated to do whatever they can to make that happen.

So this begs the question...Why did the folks at Virgin America appoint Don Carty as Chairman of the Board?

What an error in judgment they've made by smearing the Virgin brand in the scandal-ridden reputation of Donald J. Carty.

Remember what Don Carty did to the employees of AMR a few years back (Feb. 2003)?

Former AMR CEO Don Carty revealed the details of executive-retention bonuses and pension protections just three days after most employee groups had narrowly voted to accept $1.62 billion worth of annual concessions. This after Carty made numerous pleas to his employee groups calling for "shared sacrifice".

Oh wait!!! Didn't current Virgin America CEO Fred Reid take part in a bonus plan at Delta? At Delta it was also called a "retention bonus"? Fred left Delta months after receiving the bonus! SOME RETENTION!


That's the reason Virgin America CEO Fred Reid had NO problem hiring Don Carty even though Carty was forced to resign (read FIRED) by AMR’s board for incompetence and arrogance. Fred Reid it seems shares some of the same career experiences and management-styles as Don Carty.

Here's the big problem with Virgin America...it's run by folks who have a track record of lying to then screwing over the very employee groups they've been charged with leading.


What was Richard Branson thinking hiring these two Bozos???
 
$$

Virgin America

Airbus gave them planes for free

VA will not have to pay for any MX for 5 years

VA doesnt have to pay for Rent

VA doesnt have to pay for fuel

Sound familiar B6 guys?

We will know its full circle when JP4user starts bashing VA
 
Studies prove a pax will change airlines for as little as $5 a ticket. What really blows is when startups like VA and JB come in with starter fares and we match and after they go out of business we have all that lost revenue. Why even try in the first place? There are currently too many airlines operating in the US as it is. We shure don't need any more!

Baja.
 
What? Huh?

accinelli "One more reason we need the B6s, AirTrans, and the Virgin Americas out there".

They are a huge part of the reason service is getting worse as an industry, not better. Regardless of what their respective management teams or employees say B6, AirTran, and VA only care about providing the lowest fare possible. To do that they have to cut cost and in many cases cut corners. Forcing the competition to do things they never thought they'd do just 2-3 years ago.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top