Pilot negativity

[OCR]

Is it just my imagination, or is this forum one of the most negative forums in the aviation community? It seems like all pilots talk about here is how bad a charter operator is, how few days off they get, and how the whole world is out to screw them because everything about them is great and what ever is going wrong in their life must be someone else's fault...The amount of gossip this community generates is mind boggling, and 99% of it is just simply inaccurate or outright false.

It is so rare that someone asks about a charter operator and the feedback is positive. If charter operators are all so bad, why do so many of you choose to work for them? If the reason is that there are no other jobs available, why did you choose a profession where the possible places to work are all so offensive to you?

The comments in this forum where pilots tell you everything that is wrong with an operator, as if they are experts on running a business, and understand all of the finance/operations/sales/marketing/legal issues associated with running a business are just laughable.

Sorry to have to be so blunt, and I'm sure many of you will want to flame me, but I just can't believe the lack of maturity and negativity in this forum, and I am amazed at how pervasive this is through this forum.

If I'm missing something, please enlighten me.

 

[gsrcrsx68]

I'm gonna chime in, having spent my almost whole life not in aviation. It think it is aviation in general. I have never been around any group as negative as people involved with aviation. It seems to have a really high concentration of A-holes. There are a lot of good people and flying is a blast but I would say if the A-hole ratio in the non-aviation world is 1.5 in 10 it is easily 4 in 10 in aviation.
So if your saying it is even higher in the 135 world, all I can say is that is one world I never want to be part of.

 

[coltsfn8888]

I think the part of the reason is the average pilot is lied to about their career outlook. These flight schools will literaly say anything to get money out of them. Even if someone starts very young they will likely not make a major until at least there thirties and by then they want to settle down and start a family.

 

[FR8FO]

it's not your imagination, charter sucks

 

[CFI4LIFE]

I got into the biz with dreams of making it to a major, that dream no longer exists, and I'm so thankful for that. Outside of my time in the instructing world all my time is 135 freight or 135 pax, and I love it! Love my company. I feel like I know what to expect and what is expected of me. I've never had any feeling of management trying to screw me, use me, abuse me, etc.

I know there are lots of pilots/mangement that have a horrible attitude/mentality about what this business is all about, but at least you know now... there is at least ONE good operator out there!! (IMHO anyway)

Be safe y'all

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I'm gonna chime in, having spent my almost whole life not in aviation. It think it is aviation in general. I have never been around any group as negative as people involved with aviation. It seems to have a really high concentration of A-holes. There are a lot of good people and flying is a blast but I would say if the A-hole ratio in the non-aviation world is 1.5 in 10 it is easily 4 in 10 in aviation.
So if your saying it is even higher in the 135 world, all I can say is that is one world I never want to be part of.

you obviously have spent most of your life NOT in aviation....

Its all talk - "pilot bulshiit" we call it.

We talk about how crappy our jobs are as we sit in the bar at the nicest hotel in town, bitching about having to actually work 14 days this month (fuk them Im looking to leave..) complain about incompetent managers (who we see once a month max) garbage airplanes (2 years old).....sound familiar?

throw a few more $20 martinis (company paid) in there and you might catch the glimmer of truth as we make jokes about the poor schleps who actually go to work M-F and chuckle a bit as we simply couldn't comprehend that shiit. Yeah...flying sucks.

give it a little while longer, you will be doing it too.

By the way, its the ones who dont do this that scare me.





and yeah......charter does suck.




.

 

[Nolife]

My instructor and I were griping about the flight school after my first lesson and I've never looked back. It's one part of the pilot lifestyle that I love... the company bitch session... 5 hr legs go by in a flash during a good bitch off.
:beer:

 

[climbhappy]

the other day i flew a braon and was paid $500.00 i have been laid off and the cash helped pay a few bills. i may be called back soon, but i know the normal around home is somewhat more appealing. when i was flying a boeing on some three plus hour legs, i can say i sometimes thought about how boring this job really is at times. when i got thew thrill the other day, i am starting to wonder do i really just need a fix every now or then?

my point is alot of folks are incredibly unhappy in a career that takes years to go forward. kind of like staring at the dme every tenth of a mile. only 573 more until we cross Grand Turk.

that said, if it is unrewarding, then i would get out. alot of folks love every minute of it. that's fine.

i will say trying to get through a month with a chronic whining crusty old fart of a captain who bitches from the before start checklist to the shutdown checklist causes this problem in otherwise positive crewmembers.

 

[pilotyip]

Life is good

This is still a great career, I left and came back to flying, because I like it. I am still living a childhood dream and would change very little. It is has been a a fantastic adventure and I have had a ball.

 

[a&p cfiguy]

This has nothing to do with aviation. In every industry, people are way more likely to express their negative views than their positive views. Haven't you ever heard that a customer who recieved bad service will tell at least ten people, while a customer who got great service might tell one person if anyone. The advent of the internet and these message boards makes it easier to tell everyone about your bad experiences, but still most don't take the time and effort to talk about good experiences. Just human nature, I guess. Has nothing to do with aviaiton. My guess is there are plenty of happy aviators out there. You just won't find them in here bitching about how happy they are. People just don't see the need to express positive views. I wonder if anyone has ever called those "how's my driving" hotlines to tell the operator "this guy is a great driver!"

 

[ACT700]

I agree with pilotyip.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT-LEAVE!

We all know how bad this industry is/can be. We all know it is cyclical. When I went to flight school I didn't even pay any attention to those pipe dreams they were peddling. I pretty much figured this career is gonna be what I make of it.

You think this 135 thing is negative. Go over to the regionals board. What a bunch of whiny girls!
Sometimes, I just go over there to get a good laugh. I especially enjoy listening to the 500 hour rj wonders bash the industry like they've been at it for 20 years.

In the end (a&p, cfiguy made some good points) but flightinfo is probably one of the worse forums out there.

 

[climbhappy]

It is one of the worst when moderators allow the psycho babble ,of the kind on this 135 board , that keep stringing out these non sensical , school-yard arguments like the ones about silverhawk avaition.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

FI is cheaper than a therapist.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

This has nothing to do with aviation. In every industry, people are way more likely to express their negative views than their positive views. Haven't you ever heard that a customer who recieved bad service will tell at least ten people, while a customer who got great service might tell one person if anyone. The advent of the internet and these message boards makes it easier to tell everyone about your bad experiences, but still most don't take the time and effort to talk about good experiences. Just human nature, I guess. Has nothing to do with aviaiton. My guess is there are plenty of happy aviators out there. You just won't find them in here bitching about how happy they are. People just don't see the need to express positive views. I wonder if anyone has ever called those "how's my driving" hotlines to tell the operator "this guy is a great driver!"

Doesn't everyone complain about friends and family that they love?

If things were so bad, we wouldn't be involved within the various tiers of flying or bother reading and posting on this board.

 

[SAEflyer]

I don't think you will find any negative comments from me so i should be pretty impartial to your post. I have flown for 4 charter companies in my career and 3 of them were low down, law breaking, unsafe scumbag operators who didn't care about their employees. The other one went out of business. I work for netjets now and love it. So, i think there is something to the complaining you here on this forum. Walk a mile in there shoes before you down them .

 

[pilothouston123]

A happy pilot is a whining pilot!

 

[Prop2Jet]

People is aviation are bitter-true. We are sick of being treated like crap. You know if I call in sick I get yelled yet! This industry, 121, is the most f-ed up industry. Crew scheduling and dispatch were the first signs of "wow airlines are so messed up." Let alone management; they have a true disconnect with the operations side of the house. Also most of the quality of pilots, and I am talking about intellectual stamina, are fairly weak. Some of the guys I have flown with are pure low-class people. I think being a pilot is great. I am also convinced that being a pilot would be much better if I owned my own airplane and did it as a hobby. Time will tell.

 

[NoahWerka]

If ya ain't bitchin', ya ain't happy. If ya ain't happy, ya bitchin'.

CSM Freddie Smith, Co. C, 3rd SFG(A), 1st SF: 1969

 

[Makesheepnervus]

I worked 17 years as a plant manager in my previous career and I would take working in aviation over my previous job any time even at 1/2 the pay (I actually took about a 75% pay cut initially)

I work charter and I'll be working 26 days this month, (18 days is the average) but 12 days of that will be layovers and 2 of those will be on the beach in Cancun. Compare that to my old job; 70 - 80 hour 6 day work weeks for 50 weeks a year, and as for the A'hole ratio, it was waaayy higher than I experience now and the vast majority of the people I work with don't complain. I think those who do complain just haven't tried working a regular job for any length of time.

 

[Publishers]

Having been at this for 34 years, there are a number of things about the industry and business that are unique.
Operating aircraft in business, be it in any operation from corporate, charter, airlines, fractionals, whatever is the most difficult task of all the businesses I have run. That is amazing as there are so many that seem to feel they could easily do it.
Secondly, pilots in general are on a different career path than the companies that they work for until they get up in seniority at an airline or in a very secure Fortune 500 type job. There are exceptions but generally a pilots career path requires switching companies.
While everyone points to the cost of the actual aircraft, to many of the owners, that is the least of the problems. The operating costs are what they are concerned with. As example, many aircraft keep their capital value, therefore the cost is interest on financing, and, that is deductible so someone else is paying for 50% of that. It is management of the monthly operating costs they can effect their management skills. Pilots see the money spent on the aircraft and think that they should be paid relative to that.
I think pilots are negative about the business because they often do not understand the thinking, do not like the fact that schdules are not predictible except at the airlines, and feel some what removed from the main organization and what is going on.