Mesaba TA

[Hulk Hogan]

A more accurate picture would be with another carrier that blends. CHQ maybe but I'm not sure. In anycase, if I remember right, first year at XJ would be better but falls behind rather quickly at year 2.

 

[xpdriver]

the TA isn't even out yet. If someone wants to save their job, feed their family and live to fight another day thats good enough no? Where people get off on trying to run other peoples lives I have no clue.

hellonewman=MGMT

 

[redflyer65]

Thanks guys. Still looks like fuzzy math from the SLT. I would like to see ALPA nationals breakdown on how much the concession total out at. Again, your rates never needed to be changed in the first place.

 

[WTF-Over]

No...no...no...no...no...no...no...no...no...no...no...no...no...no...no...no...no...no...no And No!!!!!!!

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Yeah good point. The Mesaba TA CRJ900 rates are about $2 more than the Mesa CRJ700 rates. But you're still flying the same plane, for less money. They also guarantee an extra hour of pay vs. Mesaba.

I have no clue on Mesa health insurance...

Here's another perspective.
Mesaba TA CRJ900, 5th year Captain= $64.39
Horizon CRJ700, 5th year Captain= $80

Again you'll need to double check my math.

Compass CRJ900 5th year $68.55

 

[gnx99]

The Jet FO rates are low because of the blended rates with the Saab. Directly related, the Saab FO rates are high because of the blended rates with the Jet FO.

Yes, very true. Thankfully Mesaba prop FO's will be paid "well" relatively. That being said though, Mesa Jet FO's still will be paid more (comparing hourly rates) than Mesaba Jet FO's.

 

[wmudriver]

So with this TA, what is the total savings to the company relative to the 19.4 they were asking for?

How do these proposed 50 seat wages compare with 9E's current book?

Good luck XJ'ers. Kick that studdering, stool-pusher Spanjers in the sack for me.

 

[FOrever85]

A quick list of the companies with higher jet payscales than Mesaba's TA:

wait that's easy

EVERYONE!- INCLUDING GO-JETS, SKYWEST, and MESA

Look for yourself on airlinepilotcentral.com and take 5% or %5.5 off our current scale.

Oh and by the way, even if we get jets, we will still have the slowest upgrade in the regional airline industry

7 years to upgrade, and less pay than MESA!!!!!
WOW what a great place to work.

I am ashamed to be a MESAba pilot.

 

[XJohXJ]

........

 

[BOHICAgain]

It Should Be Same Aircraft Same Pay No Matter Who You Fly For

 

[OMG7778]

Guys your deal is not that bad. It could have been a lot worse. You are basically back to even in year 4. As in year four with the wage recovery that has been negotiated you will be basically to what you would have in your current contract DOS+4 at year 4 including your current kickers. The only thing they really get you on is longevity of the contract, but 5.5 years is alright because your guys negotiated 1.5% pay increase that will continue even after the ammendable date. This is the first time as long as I know that this has been negotiated. Also most of the consessions ie giving up one week of vacation, is only for one year. So basically after one year your rules all come back to normal, and in 4 years your wages are basically back. In addition the callin honest language has been improved, they added a perscription drug plan, profit sharing the same as all other mesaba employees.

Many of the wages that have been posted are only in year of the DOS. dont let those numbers scare you make sure you look at the big picture and the total package.

You all need to vote what ever way you are going to vote but I would not be ashamed to sign this contract, not in the least, nor would I think less of any Mesaba pilot for voting yes to this contract. I will support you guys what ever you decide. Your negotiators did a hell of a job given the circumstances. Your work rules are still intact, min day is still there, scheduled or better is there, call in honset is improved. And you all will get part of the unsecured creditors claim of 14.2 million divided amongst the pilots. I am proud of how you guys have held together thus far, no one who knows the issues will think bad of you in the least for taking this deal.

Go to the road shows get educated, remove your emotion and make the best decision for you what ever that may be.

Fly Safe

OMG

 

[DoinTime]

You are basically back to even in year 4.

Actually, in year 4 you are 10-12% behind where you are today due to absent cost of living increases.

 

[gnx99]

Many of the wages that have been posted are only in year of the DOS. dont let those numbers scare you make sure you look at the big picture and the total package.

I was using Mesaba DOS + 2 for all my calculations. They were compared to the Mesa payscales which were shown on one site to be from September 2004. Over two years old.

I'm hoping a Mesa person can chime in on their current rates.

 

[gnx99]

It Should Be Same Aircraft Same Pay No Matter Who You Fly For

BINGO.

Since Mesaba and Pinnacle are/were negotiating at the same time, it would have been nice to see them pair up. Set a nice standard rate for all the Northwest regional carriers. The whipsaw would be a lot tougher then.....

A Pinnacle strike = A Mesaba strike. Having Northwest's entire regional structure threaten strike all at once would put a lot more pressure on Big Red.

 

[kmox29]

I bet this TA passes with about 63% IN FAVOR.

 

[CptMurf]

Our rates, if you only look at the payrate, have always been on par or lower than other regionals. The reason our total compensation is and has been more, is due to our workrules.

IE. Crj rates for Captains at XJ vs 9E are the same for 5 and 10ys, and $2 more at the topped out rate. (airline pilot central payrates)

Because of our workrules [ie: min day (not touched) and block or better per leg per minute (not touched)] our crj cpt would make more. Overall the TA did not make any changes to these workrules.

 

[XJohXJ]

Actually, in year 4 you are 10-12% behind where you are today due to absent cost of living increases.

No, actually those come back, too, if we get planes. If we don't get planes, this is all moot anyway.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

According to Jane S., they worked with 9E and in the end neither company will have an advantage when it comes to bidding for work. I don't remember the reasons ... just the punch line.

 

[XJAVRO]

Yeah good point. The Mesaba TA CRJ900 rates are about $2 more than the Mesa CRJ700 rates. But you're still flying the same plane, for less money. They also guarantee an extra hour of pay vs. Mesaba.

I have no clue on Mesa health insurance...

Here's another perspective.
Mesaba TA CRJ900, 5th year Captain= $64.39
Horizon CRJ700, 5th year Captain= $80

Again you'll need to double check my math.

That is not funny! I will make more than that next year on 5th captain pay at AWAC, and those are AWAC's consession pay rates on the CRJ200. As a former Mesaba pilot I really hope you vote no on this crap!

 

[gnx99]

That is not funny! I will make more than that next year on 5th captain pay at AWAC, and those are AWAC's consession pay rates on the CRJ200. As a former Mesaba pilot I really hope you vote no on this crap!

I think my numbers are correct. Current Mesaba DOS+2, 5th Year Captain, 60-69 Passenger Jet = $68.14.

The Mesaba TA changes the 60-69 seat range to a 60-76 seat range.

The Mesaba TA calls of a 5.5% reduction in the 60-76 Jet captain rate.

5.5% from $68.14 = $64.39

That's IF Mesaba gets the CRJ900 and IF they have the 76 seat limit.

 

[QCappy]

Here's another perspective.
Mesaba TA CRJ900, 5th year Captain= $64.39
Horizon CRJ700, 5th year Captain= $80

Again you'll need to double check my math.

Here's another perspective.
There are no 5th year CRJ700 Captains at Horizon. The most Junior is 8th year pay...for now.

 

[profit]

I have to admit, I am surprised by the results of this TA. It appears the company DID blink at the end, and in a big way. I am sure everyone will get hung up on pay rates and comparisons to others. But there are some nice hidden pay items here.

With only a 5% cut, and some delays in YOY increases, I am curious to see where it puts us compared to everyone else in the industry. But the pay is restored after a few years. And if the pilots have an EQUITY claim of 14+ million? Even if it were paid out at 25%, that's like $4,700/pilot. I think that makes up for the 5% cut and then some.

It looks to me like the company is trying to save face publicly here ("we achieved the necessary cost savings for restructuring") but meanwhile have kept current book with some pretty minor modifications. The only thing that pisses me off is losing a week of vacation for one year, even though you KNOW THEY WILL BE CANCELLING VACATION AS IS STANDARD ANYWAY.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

What is the trigger for us to be paid some of the 14.2 million? I thought that was monies we would be paid in the event of liquidation. . . and that would be pennies on the dollar.

 

[profit]

What is the trigger for us to be paid some of the 14.2 million? I thought that was monies we would be paid in the event of liquidation. . . and that would be pennies on the dollar.

In the event of a liquidation, the liquidation value of the airline is extremely low since they funneled all the money to MAIR. But I think (we should ask our BK attorneys) that creditors are paid out after the Plan of Reorganization is filed. Sometimes in stock, sometimes in other forms. And importantly, this TA would be a contract to guarantee us the same percentages as the other creditors.

 

[Whataboutbob]

Here's another perspective.
There are no 5th year CRJ700 Captains at Horizon. The most Junior is 8th year pay...for now.

Exactly, everyone is arguing over 5% paycuts and hourly rates when most of the XJ pilots have been F.O's for 5+years. So I honestly think that $64 vs. $68
dollars an hour and so on isn't going to make much of a diverence when you consider they are making about $35 an hour and have been for the last couple years. The main deal is most of the work rules remained untouched. Not to pick on Pinnacle but lets say they take half of your fleet away, and then displace you all over hell and back for a few months, and then ask you to take a 5% pay cut to get things some what back to normal I bet you would pass that T.A by 90% But I know Im talking to the other 10% on this message board, so its all a mood point.

 

[Biggie Littles]

So if you dont have a seniority of around 410 or less, your not going to have a job anyway i.e. 49 Saab fleet. I dont see any sweet, juicy carrots being dangled. Remind me again what there is to vote on because Im not going to vote yes and THEN loose my job anyway. Nice try but this turd sandwich needs more pickles....

 

[xjlifer]

Do not for a second think the pr!cks at NWA corporate did not OK this TA. They will all of a sudden announce XJ will receive a limited number of planes. Then they will turn the screws at 9E. Then XJ will get a few more airplanes...and so on and so on.

 

[Whataboutbob]

I wouldn't be surprised if around the time the voting starts at XJ, NWA announces planes going to XJ if the T.A gets ratified. Another scenerio would be if the T.A passes XJ gets about 15 CRJ 200's soon after followed by 900's. I don't think they went through all of this trouble not to grow XJ. I think they wanted to see a bunch of guys leave but they also wanted to keep some experience around to fly the 900's and to save a dime or two. Im not sure when the latest multi class bid kicks in at XJ but I wouldn't be surprised if that changes soon after, if the T.A gets voted in. They won't be at 49 saabs for long.

 

[A19]

The thing is I do not trust this so called SLT. Oh if we get more then 79 aircraft then this will happen, low and behold we only get 30 CRJ's. Oh if we make a profit greater then 5% you get some money in profit sharing, bang guess what we always somehow only make a 4% profit. I want to thank MSA Alpa and the NC, but in the end I just DO NOT TRUST Spanjers and his group.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I would vote no until you have some confirmation that:
1. Mair has invested its own "Mesaba Dollars" back into Mesaba
2. There is some contractual agreement showing NWA is investing in mesaba at that current TA rate.
Otherwise you have no idea that this TA is just for the saab and they won't again ask for more for the 900 in a whipsaw vs. Pinnacle.