Senator Santorum's response to S. 65

[luckytohaveajob]

Congressman Jim Gibbons in serious trouble

If Congressman R-Nev. Jim Gibbons gets prosecuted on criminal charges age 60 is in serious jeopardy. H.65 is not out of the House of Rep. Transportation committee yet and with the author of H.65 facing charges this could all come to a screeching halt.

Looking forward to the DA pressing charges!!!!!!!!

http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=5610655&nav=15MV

 

[Andy]

I do not disagree with what you are saying Falcon, however the senator is correct. This rule (age 60) came about not thru any scientific studies, but
literally from an agreement between the FAA and the head of an airline back in those days....maybe AA....Kind of like a deal so to speak......

If anyone has the full details of how age 60 came about that would be great....

Contrary to the urban legend that the age 60 rule was some backroom deal between Quesada and CR Smith, the committee formed by the FAA did actually look at scientific studies along with other data prior to recommending the age 60 rule.
Here's a link that mentions the origins of the FAA, why it was formed, and Quesada's safety mandate from Eisenhower: http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Government_Role/FAA_History/POL8.htm

If you dig a bit deeper, you'll find that Quesada took a number of steps to improve aviation safety. One aspect of safety that was address was the maximum pilot age. CR Smith did provide some data to the FAA, but I suspect that many other airline execs also provided information.
One of the people that Quesada asked to be a committee member was Rev. Hesburgh, the president of Notre Dame. In a letter to CR Smith, Rev. Hesburgh said that he thought that the maximum pilot age should be 50 due to safety concerns. Quesada responded that there would be no predetermined maximum retirement age for pilots. I'm not sure if Hesburgh sat on the committee or not; there were several distinguished medical doctors on the committee. They recommended a maximum age to transition to jet aircraft of 55 and a maximum pilot age of 60.

It will take you quite a while to find references to all of this, but they are out there on the internet.
As for current scientific studies, the CAMI reports show a definite U shaped curve where the accident rate per 100,000 hours flown starts to rise at the age of 55.


I find it interesting that many letters from Senators state that the rule was made without any examination of scientific studies. That's a bunch of BS.

 

[Andy]

If Congressman R-Nev. Jim Gibbons gets prosecuted on criminal charges age 60 is in serious jeopardy. H.65 is not out of the House of Rep. Transportation committee yet and with the author of H.65 facing charges this could all come to a screeching halt.

Gibbons is running for governor of Nevada; he is not running for reelection in the House.
The House shut down HR 65 by never allowing it to leave subcommittee; it has been there since the day after Gibbons introduced the bill back in Jan or Feb '05.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Gibbons is the drive behind age 60 in House

Gibbons is leading the entire drive regarding age 60 in the Congress.

He is the reason the Senate took up the cause with Ted Stevens.

I said H.65 was not out of committee and it is Gibbons that has given the entire issue traction.

 

[Andy]

Lucky, you're correct. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone else in the House pick up Gibbons' mantle. We'll have to see who in the 110th Congress decides to make this a 'cause'.

 

[Trout]

Lucky, you're correct. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone else in the House pick up Gibbons' mantle. We'll have to see who in the 110th Congress decides to make this a 'cause'.

Hopefully they'll work a few more days than 109th.

 

[Andy]

Hopefully they'll work a few more days than 109th.

LOL! Ain't that the truth?

 

[CitationLover]

since santorum LOVES scientific evidence please ask him why they don't decrease the duty days for airline pilots? NASA has some wonderful studies on these subjects.

 

[lostplnetairman]

I emailed Senator Santorum to express my opposition to S. 65. The following is his response.

This has always been his position. It's not pre-election posturing.

I have to say that, as someone who regularly participates in professional lobbying in DC, Specter never grants an interview while Santorum always does. In fact he got a key piece of the immigration bill changed as a direct result of that when we pointed out that the Senate legislation required employers to check the credentials of a potential employee while the IRCA (the law that makes you complete an I-9 with a proof of ID and a proof of the right to work in the US) prohibits that! I hope you all understand that most legislation is written by 22 year olds who don't know what they are talking about!

My vote will probably be decided in the booth.

HRDiva

 

[Captain Overs]

Only one more week of Rick "Man on dog" Santorum!!

 

[warbirdfinder]

For a compete chronology go to: http://www.ppf.org/chrono.htm

Age 60 Rule Chronology ​

Early 1950's Several airlines unilaterally established mandatory pilot retirements at age 60. ALPA objected, but enhanced retirement programs were then taking precedence in its contract negotiations, so did not actively resist the issue.
1956-58 Pilots at three carriers (Western, TWA & American) challenged the mandatory retirement issue through the labor grievance machinery. All three were decided in the pilot's favor. TWA and American had defended on contractual grounds. Western defended exclusively on the safety issue, which was decisively rejected by the arbitrator.
1956 In response to a general breakdown of the air traffic control system, leading to several dramatic mid-air collisions, near misses, etc., the Congress authorized (and funded) a full review of the airman medical certification standards. The Civil Aviation Administration assigned the review to the non -profit Flight Safety Foundation and requested a separate, expedited examination of the standards applying to air traffic controllers.
1957 Congress created and funded the Airways Modernization Board to manage the restructuring of the airways traffic control system. Then President Eisenhower appointed Gen. Elwood Quesada, his war-time commander of the European Theater's Tactical Air Forces as Chairman.
1958 Congress totally reorganized the CAA. Assigning economic regulation to the CAB, and creating the FAA to manage the air traffic systems and overall safety responsibilities. Eisenhower appointed Quesada as the FAA's first Administrator.
1958 Two Flight Safety Foundation (medical) reports (the first on air traffic controllers, the second on pilots) were released. The first recommended a specific retirement age for air traffic controllers. The second, after considering impact of the newly introduced jet transport aircraft, specifically recommended no change to the pilot medical certification standards.
1958 TWA and Western acceded to the labor arbitrations, reinstating their over age 60 pilots. American refused. On December 20, the pilots at American went out on strike (over both contract renewal and the retirement issues). The airline capitulated to the pilot's demands on Jan. 10, 1959, including acceptance of the arbitrator's ruling on reinstating the over age 60 pilots.
Feb.5, 1959 C.R. Smith, Chairman of American (and a personal friend of Gen. Quesada) addressed a personal plea (that, by its typographical errors [FOIA] he seems to have prepared himself), to Gen. Quesada, acknowledging his loss on the age 60 retirement issue, and seeking an FAA regulation to solve his labor problem.
Mar. 1959 FAA initiates a complete revision of airman medical certification standards in response to the recommendations of the Flight Safety Foundation reports. No concern for any aspect of pilot aging is included.
April 17, 1959 FAA Administrator Quesada in a letter to the Reverend Theodore Hesburg: President of Notre Dame University; "There exists at present no sound scientific evidence that airline piloting, or any other aeronautical activity, becomes critical at any given age."
June 1959 FAA initiates the regulatory process in response to the request by C.R. Smith for a mandatory age 60 pilot retirement. Although the stated arguments were medical in nature, no mention of, or reference to, the Flight Safety Foundation reports, or the concurrent revision of the medical certification standards was acknowledged.
Sect. 602 of the Federal Aviation Act 49 USC 1422(b) Ref. Certificate denials: Appeals were intentionally included in the Federal Aviation Act mandating that the burden of proof was to rest upon the Administrator, not the appellant.
Sept. 1959 Revision of medical certification standards completed and promulgated.
Dec. 1959 Promulgation of the Age 60 Rule.
Jan. 1960 Federal District Court refuses to enjoin enforcement of the Age 60 Rule with a ruling that begins by lauding Gen. Quesada's wartime exploits, cites a Washington Post editorial, and quotes an after dinner speech by socialite-philanthropist Harry F. Guggenheim (with Quesada in attendance). ALPA v Quesada, 182 F.Supp. 595 (S.D., N.Y., 1960)
Jan. 1961 Gen Elwood Quesada retires from the FAA and is immediately elected to American Airlines Board of Directors.

 

[pit717]

no casey

i live in pa...and bob casey doesnt know his a$$ from a hole in the ground

 

[Offshore Racer]

Florida Senate

Thank you for contacting me regarding the retirement age for pilots.

The Senate Commerce Committee, of which I am a member, recently considered S. 65, a bill to raise the retirement age of commercial pilots now mandated by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) from 60 to 65. I supported the legislation because I believe forcing pilots to retire at the age of 60 is a clear case of age discrimination. The measure was strongly supported by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) and the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP).

I also believe this rule forces pilots to retire at the height of their capabilities. We ought to value the experience these pilots bring to the cockpit. The safety standards set in place by the FAA, which include physicals and annual evaluations, as well as a provision in S. 65 requiring pilots who are over age 60 to fly with someone younger, are sufficient to ensure the safety and security of both crew and passengers.

I appreciate your taking the time to share your opinion with me about this important issue. Feel free to contact me in the future.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Thank you for contacting me regarding the retirement age for pilots.

The Senate Commerce Committee, of which I am a member, recently considered S. 65, a bill to raise the retirement age of commercial pilots now mandated by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) from 60 to 65. I supported the legislation because I believe forcing pilots to retire at the age of 60 is a clear case of age discrimination. The measure was strongly supported by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) and the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP).

I also believe this rule forces pilots to retire at the height of their capabilities. We ought to value the experience these pilots bring to the cockpit. The safety standards set in place by the FAA, which include physicals and annual evaluations, as well as a provision in S. 65 requiring pilots who are over age 60 to fly with someone younger, are sufficient to ensure the safety and security of both crew and passengers.

I appreciate your taking the time to share your opinion with me about this important issue. Feel free to contact me in the future.

Sure, He'll be easy to find in Florida. He'll be the one staring into space at the Publix deli counter at the ham selections while everbodys waiting, holding up 50 other golfers with his "Mrs Havasham" slow play, or driving down I-95 at 50 mph in the left lane with your turn signal on.

Give me a break pal. Anyone living in FL can see the detioriation that takes place for people in their 60's. How many cars driven by the elderly do you need to see down here plowed through 7-11 windows and into swimming pools before you admit there is a problem?

As for physicals and examinitions, are you kidding? Every 6 months to B.S. with your AME about golf? Sim checks done by your 25 year buddy on same repetitive profile?

Yes, I will be writing to my Florida Senators. But it will be from the perspective of flying with those nearing 60 and those who I have flown with that were over 60.

 

[Cyclone]

rule change

Change age 60? Remind our lawmakers that it is there willful action that will result in blood on their hands when some incompetent grandpa screws the pooch.

http://www.senate.gov
http://www.house.gov

 

[FoxHunter]

Give me a break pal. Anyone living in FL can see the detioriation that takes place for people in their 60's. How many cars driven by the elderly do you need to see down here plowed through 7-11 windows and into swimming pools before you admit there is a problem?

Hey pal, the problems you noted are have occured for some that are age 80+ not in their 60s. Most times in their upper 80s.

 

[Cyclone]

How old?

Fact is you don't know how old they were foxhunter. One thing is certain though, those drivers all thought they were safe. They could drive just as well as any young 'un. Heck, they could drive better than any young 'un, mostly because of all their vast experience, knowledge and skill. Crash!

 

[RP 04]

i live in pa

I'm sorry to hear that...

 

[stratocoaster]

This has always been his position. It's not pre-election posturing.

I hope you all understand that most legislation is written by 22 year olds who don't know what they are talking about!


HRDiva

that's just silly. most people don't graduate law school before age 25,and then it's another year to study for and pass the bar, if done so the first time.

 

[CitationLover]

all these senators need to revisit the ATC mandatory retirement age then also to be consistent. and if FORCING to retire at 60 is "discriminatory" then FORCING them to retire at 65 is also "discriminatory". can they understand their double speak? of course not, they live in Oz (oops DC).