The US Airways Recall Decision: Deal or No Deal

[BenderGonzales]

In many ways it is similar to the popular gameshow. Open a suitcase. It might hold a million dollars. Or, it could hold a few hundred before the next furlough.

For many of us it has been almost 5 years since we were furloughed. The pain has worn off and, except for those who took J4J opportunities, most of us have moved on.

If you went to work for what ALPA considers a "competing carrier", then you were unceremoniously removed from the ALPA website. Left in an information vacuum we relied on websites such as this one and US Aviation to scrape together information regarding our ex-employer. Periodically we would get letters or phonecalls from US Airways regarding new J4J opportunities or MidAtlantic class dates. Those were relatively easy to decline.

But today we are facing the reality that, with a rumored 25 recalls a month, we will be forced to open another suitcase in the very near future. If they should happen to offer a group-2 aircraft, it could be our last suitcase.

So I'm wondering what factors some of you are using to make that decision. Where are you right now? Will you accept recall? Will you bypass? If you bypass, do you intend to go back? Or are you using the recall as an insurance policy? If so, how do you feel about losing that insurance policy when they call for the last time?

I admit that, especially over the last two years, I've been fairly outspoken regarding my intention to bypass and then resign. I have a fairly good corporate job and, for the most part, an excellent schedule with good pay. The equipment leaves something to be desired -- but I dont want to abandon this job based solely on my own personal version of shiny-jet-syndrome either.

I would like to move back towards the northeast, but realistically i'd be commuting for at least several months. Unless I could hold Charlotte, it would be a 2-leg commute. The E190 (at least the copilot seat) pays less than I am currently paid, so that seems like a no-brainer. The group-2 aircraft would be about a wash when I'm recalled -- but the pay would quickly outpace what i'm currently making.

I have a family to care for, a retirement to plan, college to save for. If i'm furloughed again... then I'm out of ideas and space in my closet for uniforms. So i'm staring at the suitcase and wondering what to do...

How about you? Deal or no deal?

 

[A350]

I am using it as an insurance policy....something that one doesn't often have in this business......

As I am near the top of the furloughed list....and can pass at will for at least 3-5 years, I don't see the need to make a quick, rash decision. Further, it gives me the chance to see how this "merger" works out and how much of an a$$ rippin seniority wise we take before I make a move.

All in all, not a bad place to be. However, does anyone else wonder why they sent the furlough section of the contract to you with your recall letter?

A350

 

[Bubba Dog]

It's a no brainier for me, I am recently layed off and have nothing to lose. There are no guaranty's in this crazy industry. I do feel that USAir is positioned well right now,who knows about 5,10, or 15 years from now. When I was hired in 89 it was one of the best jobs you could have in the industry. I have only spent 6 years on the property since because of furloughs.

If you want something to back up another furlough get in the guard or reserve if you have that option. If not, then accept recall and learn another occupation while at USAir to back yourself up in case of another furlough. Send you wife back to school, and save as much money as you can.

I do think you have a while to make up your mind. It will take a while to go through the entire list. Why not just wait until you have to say yes or no,that way you can keep your options open as long as possible. If you are really young,go back to school and get into the medical profession. You will always have a job no matter where you go and will not have to worry about getting laid off.

Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck because you will probably need it in this un-predictable industry of commercial aviation.

 

[BenderGonzales]

A350. I can't imagine why they sent the furlough section of the contract. Does it say anything applicable?

Also, 3-5 years? I understand that you can bypass the E190 indefinately. But once they call with a Group 2 airplane, I was under the impression that you had to make the decision at that time to either accept recall, or resign. No?

I was hired in Jan of 99 and have not yet received a recall letter. Can you tell the rest of us what to expect? Thanks!

 

[Bubba Dog]

A350. I can't imagine why they sent the furlough section of the contract. Does it say anything applicable?

Also, 3-5 years? I understand that you can bypass the E190 indefinitely. But once they call with a Group 2 airplane, I was under the impression that you had to make the decision at that time to either accept recall, or resign. No?

I was hired in Jan of 99 and have not yet received a recall letter. Can you tell the rest of us what to expect? Thanks!

The furlough section was sent so you know the rules of the game when it comes to recall protocol. You can pass an E190 F/O and a west metal indefinitely. When they ask for anything other than the aforementioned it's time to either get off the pot or do your duty if they have started to come back up the list in reverse order.

 

[LearLove]

"I understand that you can bypass the E190 indefinately" - I believe you can bypass only the E-190 FO position indefinately, you can bypass the E-190 CA position and any mainline position as long as there are still guys on furlough below you. Once they come back up (from bottom to top, years from now imho) offering only 190 CA (if the 190 is still on the mainline properity) or mainline positions its either come back or your off the list for good.

 

[LearLove]

yeah, what he said 2 above

 

[LearLove]

Here is my 2 cents on U down the road:

After the lists are merged there will be too many pilots as they will shrink. No furloughs however as the shrinkage will be met with the retiring guys 2008 to 2012 lots of them. I see an order for next gen 737 and somthing larger to match however this really won't be growth it will just replace older 737's. In order to get this order which management will sell to the active mainline guys as growth they will want to give the 190's to some contract carrier. Of course they will sell the junior guys dow the river and bite on the offer.

I don't think you'll ever see a mainline fleet much bigger than the one we will have once the east and west fleets are combined. The only growth will be in the 170 to 190 flying segment and like I said I bet management has plans to contract all that out.

By the time U hire from the street our kids will be graduating from ERAU. The APL list will fill the attrition over the years leaving the ones at the bottom who take a recall to be the next furlough fodder for management mistakes.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

6 Months ago I was flying the whale on 2nd year pay for more than U offers on 5th year pay so bypass was a no brainer until group two came up then it was decision time. However we took a hose job from mgmt. over there and now I am furloughed again....so now it is still a no brainer....just the opposite of what I thought.

I really liked what one of our esteemed senior pilots said on the ALPA national board....a certian Capt. that posts daily about getting the age 60 rule changed...He said that "Any USair pilot that is not currently working after 5 years is just plain lazy"........this was in defense of some of his less than popular statements he has made in his crusade. After having a corporate flight department shut down on me, and after being furloughed yet again it was nice to see some good old fashion brotherhood still rolling around!

I think that this guy was one of the guys that gleefully supported the transfer of flying to the RJ's in order to try to save his own skin back in BK...so it should not surprise me that he is still only interested in his own skin.

Hmm, small rant off topic here, sorry. I'll just go back to being furloughed and lazy now!!

Deeaal......or No Deal?............we will find out......right after this break!

 

[weasel_lips]

Question for you guys in the know....

Each time there is a recall bid for USAIR.....

A. Do they restart at the top and call everyone again until the slots are filled?

or

B. Do they pick up where they left off from the last recall and continue down the list?

THANKS!

 

[LearLove]

start from the top

 

[BenderGonzales]

Are they really sending out a "preference form" that indicates whether you wish to come back for the E190 or a group II and, if so, what are they doing with it? I can't imagine that ALPA would agree to let them skip names during recall based on what is on such a sheet...

...but ALPA's surprised me before.

 

[Swaayze]

First of all, I think it's very enlightening that you chose to compare this decision with "Deal or No Deal". That show could just as easily be called "Just How Greedy are You?" I really think that you're right on when you admit to having a version of SJS in considering returning to U. As you're aware BG I'm in the same state of mind. I think bypass is the smart move, certainly for the 190 and probably even on the initial pass of the group 2s. My understanding is that you can bypass group 2 until they're on the way back UP the list with a last chance offer.

My decision making is based almost solely on QOL. I have tried extremely hard to make decisions based on time with my family since 9/11, and to date I think I've done pretty well with that, although at significant financial cost. I have turned down jobs that pay considerably better than what I'm doing now in order to keep flying and avoid commuting. Truth be told I'd probably be better off in the grand scheme if I was not so stubborn, but my girls will only be young for a few more years and then they'll be more concerned with friends, boys, music, etc., so maybe at that point I'll go back. I guess you could say, at this point anyway, that I view recall as insurance. I do figure that I'll probably end up back there eventually, strictly for the money that I'll need to retire, buy college educations, prom dresses, weddings, etc. If I were to upgrade here anytime soon (not likely), or find a good corp gig locally I might permanently bypass recall, otherwise I guess I'll bypass 'til it suits me.

 

[Bubba Dog]

Are they really sending out a "preference form" that indicates whether you wish to come back for the E190 or a group II and, if so, what are they doing with it? I can't imagine that ALPA would agree to let them skip names during recall based on what is on such a sheet...

...but ALPA's surprised me before.

All it amounts to is yea or nay on the possibility of a recall.If you don't respond it is a nay. Nothing is mentioned about specific A/C.

 

[LearLove]

"My understanding is that you can bypass group 2 until they're on the way back UP the list with a last chance offer."

Yes this is true, but I also think that you cannot bypass an E190 Capt offer. However, this most likely won't be a problem as all the 190 CA slots will should be taken before the group2 slots go.

 

[Crzipilot]

Your correct. The only bypassing is on the 190 f/o IF they are going through final calls. But I don't think final calls will go out for some time.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Swaayze,

I have absolutely no doubt that commuting to reserve would be a huge impact to my family and I. So, with that in mind, I had to put greed aside and take a more careful look at the package.

Interestingly, when I started looking at the payrates I found that they don't really have the impact that they used to. After all, group II pay is only $62/hr for a furloughee with 3 years longevity. Short call reserve has a 76 hr guarantee, so we're talking $4700/month pre-tax. So what does that equate to? Around $42000/yr after taxes?

When you add in the cost of commuting, a crashpad, and transportation etc. at your base, we're talking about commuter airline pay for group-two equipment.

So lets look longer term. If the airline survives and these mass retirements occur (with or without age 65) over the next decade then we can start looking at captain rates within 10 years.

10 year captain pay around $120-$130/hr. Still not anywhere close to what it was when we were on the property, but now we're looking at $9200/month (pre-tax) or around $77000/yr after taxes (assuming 76 hr guarantee).

Well shoot. Might as well take greed out of the equation unless you know something I dont know. That leaves only one thing (in my case) shiny-jet-syndrome.

Will I succumb to the lure of a nice comfortable A320 with an APU (ahhhh air conditioning), a lav, and enough room in the cockpit to turn your head without banging it on the overhead?

Time will tell. But if I do succumb to the lure of the shiny jet without regard to the long-term lifestyle and financial impact, then you have my permission to call me a dumbass.

 

[Swaayze]

I got a copy of LOA 93 today and had a brief minute to breeze through it. Wow.

Did I read correctly that years 1-7 only accrue 1 week of vacation!?

Did I read correctly that LTD is only pays for 2 years?! Long term my ass!

Did I read correctly that a reserve is only out of time if he does 285 hours in a 3 month period?! That's 95/mo average! Holy crap can you say fatigue?

Did I read correctly that you only have 60 hours of regular sick available unlesss you're on a long-term sick of more than 21 days!?

Did I read correctly that the VP Flt Ops sets the monthly cap as high as 95 with no restrictions, and can flex it 5 from there?! Ouch!

The only thing that got me excited was that the 75 hour option with SAP-ability down to 60 is still available! I figure that's probably a bad sign for me going back....

I will do more research but it ain't too pretty so far. I hope I missed a lot in my initial scan and I'm way off base here.

 

[Crzipilot]

Hmmm........You might have missed a few more horrifying things. Those might have actually been the good parts...LOL. Actually it's not laughing, it's pretty sad. Though the 1-7 yrs and such, at the time nobody cared, because. Oh everyone was on 12 yr at the time...........I thought there was a ladder around here???

 

[BenderGonzales]

"Though the 1-7 yrs and such, at the time nobody cared, because. Oh everyone was on 12 yr at the time."

mmmhmmm. "Screw you. I've got mine" - ALPA Motto

 

[Bubba Dog]

I got a copy of LOA 93 today and had a brief minute to breeze through it. Wow.

Did I read correctly that years 1-7 only accrue 1 week of vacation!?

Did I read correctly that LTD is only pays for 2 years?! Long term my ass!

Did I read correctly that a reserve is only out of time if he does 285 hours in a 3 month period?! That's 95/mo average! Holy crap can you say fatigue?

Did I read correctly that you only have 60 hours of regular sick available unlesss you're on a long-term sick of more than 21 days!?

Did I read correctly that the VP Flt Ops sets the monthly cap as high as 95 with no restrictions, and can flex it 5 from there?! Ouch!

The only thing that got me excited was that the 75 hour option with SAP-ability down to 60 is still available! I figure that's probably a bad sign for me going back....

I will do more research but it ain't too pretty so far. I hope I missed a lot in my initial scan and I'm way off base here.

LTD equals 24 mos if caused by mental illness or disorder or substance abuse. Cost a max of $100 mo. company picks up the rest.

Reserve(bucket system) will be difficult to say the least if you commute. Only 4 days a mo they cannot touch. Hopefully negotiations will help some of the problems. I'm afraid the current reserve system will take a toll on the senior work force. A lot of fatigue!

Vacation is "I got mine" syndrome for sure.

E period sims for training.

DH 50% pay no credit

amenable date 12-31-09

no night pay

pay frozen till 12-31-09

no crew meals domestically

have to be a PHL lawyer to understand sick section now

Medical insurance between age 60-65 is high,nothing about drug coverage that I could see.

In summary,no wonder USAir is making boatloads of money. When you only have to provide sweat shop pay and benefits you can't help but beat the rest of the industry.

 

[Swaayze]

At this point I think it's a definite BYPASS until the single list and single contract are decided. I would sure like to have a better idea of what to expect in regard to the compensation and progression I can count on if I go back to LCC.