ASA Mgt Rejects Arbitration

[VeeOne]

Everyone can bitch about Skywest "lowering the bar" because they fly 700's & 900's for 50 seat rates, but then act like we are asking too much when Delta, Jet Blue, US Air or any other "major" accepts a pay rate for some airplane they don't have that is less than what we ask for. I suppose if Southwest took 90 bucks an hour to fly a 737 it would be o.k. for ASA to fly a 700 for 50.. I say bullcrap. When did the majors decide to join the race to the bottom! This whole industry is screwed up.

The majors aren't into a race for the bottom, they're into stopping it- which brings up my next point. The majors took the payrates for the 90's to keep them off regional property. It's their way of keeping mainline flying, and a stronger hand to bargain with later. Besides- the payrates from USAirways and Delta are on par with what is already being paid by JetBlue.

USAirways IS getting the EMB190 90 seater- so it's a valid point for a comparison- at least in MY view.

 

[VeeOne]

How did you buy your last car? Did you go in low and the dealer came in high? Did he move towards you and then you did the same?

Negotiation 101. If you have something they want the cost to them just went up. Do you know what we are giving up if we take PBS at face value? Talk to someone that does and you will see the light.

This is not just about rates. It's about the end game. What do you walk away with at the end. The whole package.

I'm just a lowly CRJ200 F/O- I'm too poor to buy a new car. Hope the family truckster keeps tickin'............

 

[ASADriver]

That money will dry up according to management if we dont grow.

We cant grow, according to you mgt. types, if we dont settle the contract and know what our future cost will be.

ASADriver, if you are a line pilot at ASA, you are doing nothing to help yourself or the other ASA pilots come together.

You must be a GO type or have a sick sense of humor as you type your high school level rants.

Most of all, you are simply a jerk.

Why dont you post your rants on the ASA ALPA webboard so we know exactly who you are and can have some face to face debates?

Medeco

I'm a jerk because I disagree with the union which I happen to be a member of? About a hundred of us union members voted not to strike - are we all "jerks"?

News flash for some of you ALPA koolaid drinkers - there are alot of union members who disagree with the union and we aren't management types.

Skywest will grow with or without ASA - they can still make money and do the Delta flying.

 

[ASADriver]

How did you buy your last car? Did you go in low and the dealer came in high? Did he move towards you and then you did the same?

Negotiation 101. If you have something they want the cost to them just went up. Do you know what we are giving up if we take PBS at face value? Talk to someone that does and you will see the light.

This is not just about rates. It's about the end game. What do you walk away with at the end. The whole package.

I love the car analogy. What happens when both sides stop moving and you are still apart? You don't get the car and we don't get the airplanes. You may feel good about yourself, but you don't have the car and we don't have the aircraft. What exactly are we walking away with at the end?

 

[atrdriver]

I have heard this from some pilots also. Seems some union types told people who were undecided about the vote to vote yes because they would get another chance to vote. Some of these people are upset that they were misled by the union.

You are completely full of crap. NO ONE in the union told ANYONE that there would be another vote about a strike. It was clearly stated on the strike ballots. You are just trying to spread lies about ALPA because your doom and gloom crap isn't swaying anyone to your perverted stance. Grow up.

 

[FightingIrish]

You are completely full of crap. NO ONE in the union told ANYONE that there would be another vote about a strike. It was clearly stated on the strike ballots. You are just trying to spread lies about ALPA because your doom and gloom crap isn't swaying anyone to your perverted stance. Grow up.

I understood it, and I voted YES. However some pilots were led to believe that this wasn't the final vote. There was even one ALPA rep. in the crew lounge with a laptop coercing people to vote. Again I voted yes, but given the behavior of ALPA, that was probably a mistake.

 

[VeeOne]

I love the car analogy. What happens when both sides stop moving and you are still apart? You don't get the car and we don't get the airplanes. You may feel good about yourself, but you don't have the car and we don't have the aircraft. What exactly are we walking away with at the end?

Someone else drives off with the car (airplanes).

 

[FightingIrish]

Someone else drives off with the car (airplanes).

I'm glad someone else sees this. Someone else is driving off in the car and we are talking about what great car negotiators we are. The market rate for the car does come into play at some point in the negotiations. I really love getting the car buying analogy from a kid that is younger than the first car I bought. I was buying my first car when some of these guys were in diapers.

 

[Medeco]

I'm a jerk because I disagree with the union which I happen to be a member of? About a hundred of us union members voted not to strike - are we all "jerks"?

News flash for some of you ALPA koolaid drinkers - there are alot of union members who disagree with the union and we aren't management types.

Skywest will grow with or without ASA - they can still make money and do the Delta flying.

No, not all 100 out of 1600 pilots are on here everyday beating a dead horse as you are.

You have nothing but complaints with zero answers. Your a problem maker not a problem solver.

If you dont like the Reps you have as a union member then run for office and show us how you can do it better, I just cant stand people who do nothing but complain with no answers or willingness to do things better.

You actually fit the stereo type of a pilot. Want some cheese with your wine?

And, YES your a jerk.

Medeco

 

[VeeOne]

Medeco-

So the old timers that do nothing but complain help the situation and cause? Oh wait- THAT's ok because their view is in line with your own.

 

[172driver]

How on earth is Delta planning to replace ASA's feed quickly enough to survive? You guys have leverage here. Maybe more than Comair did in 2000, given DAL's shaky financial status. In 2000, they could afford to play games, to bleed money in order to prove a point. Now they can't. Not to mention that they are supposedly shrinking Comair by 50-100 airframes at the same time.

 

[Medeco]

Medeco-

So the old timers that do nothing but complain help the situation and cause? Oh wait- THAT's ok because their view is in line with your own.

You dont know what my view of the situation is.

I am inclinded to believe the union before management. It has been said often that one should take in both sides and somewhere in the middle is about right. I make sure to stay informed of what is going on from all sides and then I make my own decisions.

Again, If you guys are so dissatisfied with your current reps then get out there and run for office and make the argument in a constructive way, fighting on FI in an anonomous fashion is a bit cowardly.

If your arguments are so right, and so strong ,get on the ASA ALPA webboard and make the arguments. Help us put to rest that you guys are not management pawns with other motives.

Medeco

 

[US Flyer]

How on earth is Delta planning to replace ASA's feed quickly enough to survive? You guys have leverage here. Maybe more than Comair did in 2000, given DAL's shaky financial status. In 2000, they could afford to play games, to bleed money in order to prove a point. Now they can't. Not to mention that they are supposedly shrinking Comair by 50-100 airframes at the same time.

172 Driver hit the nail on the head. Delta mainline cannot afford to lose a dime over this.
IMO, there will be no strike- it will be a contract resolved at the VERY last minute before we park aircraft at midnight.

No one can gear up fast enough to replace this large a workforce, not overnight, not in six months. And all the recent new hire trainees at Skywest aren't going to be PIC magically overnight to help overcome a strike at ASA.

 

[VeeOne]

It is my sincerest hope that when I get on this web page following a strike, that a lot of people will be saying "TOLD YOU"....I actually hope I'm wrong in my opinion that a strike would dissolve ASA.

 

[Smacktard]

It is my sincerest hope that when I get on this web page following a strike, that a lot of people will be saying "TOLD YOU"....I actually hope I'm wrong in my opinion that a strike would dissolve ASA.

The Comair strike cost something like 16 million a day. If ASA were to strike it would be even more costly. Delta cannot and will not let that happen. 460 some flights cancelled per day in Atlanta? Not on your life.

I personally believe that a strike will not happen, mgmt cannot let it go that far. But I also don't believe that that gives the union carte blanche to dictate the terms. It's a fine line between the two but, certainly, something that can resolved when the strike is looming and managment is motivated to get it done.

Right now it is in mgmts best interest to delay, every day delayed is a dollar saved if you buy into their model of how this works. Retro? I think should be an absolute must, how else will we ever get them to bargain in 'good faith'? Lets hope we can get this done and get down to the business of making money. Ready to strike but hopeful mgmt doesn't let it self destruct.

 

[ASARJMan]

I have heard this from some pilots also. Seems some union types told people who were undecided about the vote to vote yes because they would get another chance to vote. Some of these people are upset that they were misled by the union.

Blah blah blah! SOS with you. You are so fulla sheeeet! Management creep!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

WF, AT, RP all seem like they want a fight and big raises. They are an embarrassment to ALPA. Some of us aren't as unhappy as those 3 - including some YES voters.

Your post shows how out of touch you are. With the closing of the SLC Domicile, only one of those people is a voting member of the MEC. Why don't you call Will and ask him his position on the issues. You may be surprised at the answers. Quit making assumptions and pick up the phone and call him.

All you MEC bashers make me laugh. Youare the most vocal but least involved in the entire process.

Bitching on FlightInfo gets you nowhere. Pick up a telephone, approach your reps in the crew lounge. Your opinion is valid, important and you are integral to the process. No one knows you exist if you spend your time spewing on FI.

 

[ASARJMan]

Let them come then! We need to throw the bull$hit flag here. I don't believe their tealeaves one little bit. There is no semblance of trust or honesty between the GO and the line, so let's take our chances. 37 quitters so far this month...aren't they getting the memo? People are fed up!

63 in the past two months have quit! That equals incompetent management?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[ASARJMan]

ASA and Skywest are getting on with the business of making money. ALPA keeps pointing that out. What incentive does management have if we keep making money?

hIH? dON'T GET THAT ONE DUMBASS. pUT DOWN YOUR MARTINI A BIT WILLYA! mGT PUKE!

voted in favor!

 

[ASARJMan]

I'm a jerk because I disagree with the union which I happen to be a member of? About a hundred of us union members voted not to strike - are we all "jerks"? .

A hundred? You do a poll or something drivel? News flash for asadrivel.....majority rules! Strike baby!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[ASARJMan]

I understood it, and I voted YES. However some pilots were led to believe that this wasn't the final vote. There was even one ALPA rep. in the crew lounge with a laptop coercing people to vote. Again I voted yes, but given the behavior of ALPA, that was probably a mistake.

Coerced? What, you can't think/decide for yourself? Give me the name of the ALPA rep who "coerced" you.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Medeco]

Your post shows how out of touch you are. With the closing of the SLC Domicile, only one of those people is a voting member of the MEC. Why don't you call Will and ask him his position on the issues. You may be surprised at the answers. Quit making assumptions and pick up the phone and call him.

All you MEC bashers make me laugh. Youare the most vocal but least involved in the entire process.

Bitching on FlightInfo gets you nowhere. Pick up a telephone, approach your reps in the crew lounge. Your opinion is valid, important and you are integral to the process. No one knows you exist if you spend your time spewing on FI.

That is very well said. I agree 100%. But I think we are taling to a brick wall.

Medeco

 

[Medeco]

Your post shows how out of touch you are. With the closing of the SLC Domicile, only one of those people is a voting member of the MEC. Why don't you call Will and ask him his position on the issues. You may be surprised at the answers. Quit making assumptions and pick up the phone and call him.

All you MEC bashers make me laugh. Youare the most vocal but least involved in the entire process.

Bitching on FlightInfo gets you nowhere. Pick up a telephone, approach your reps in the crew lounge. Your opinion is valid, important and you are integral to the process. No one knows you exist if you spend your time spewing on FI.

That is very well said. I agree 100%. But I think we are talking to a brick wall.

Medeco

 

[JustaNumber]

Someone else is driving off in the car and we are talking about what great car negotiators we are. The market rate for the car does come into play at some point in the negotiations.

Meanwhile, your friend from Cincinnati in the next cubicle is also trying to buy a car. He agrees to pay out the a$$ in finance charges, but then the dealer doesn't give him the new car, and actually takes a baseball bat to his old one. That's what happens when you play with shady dealers.

As for market rates coming into play, when your other friend from Salt Lake got a much better deal on his new car than what you've been paying for your 8 year old POS, you would be a fool to either keep driving your old POS around forever, or pay twice what he paid for a new car.

With ASA and Skywest generating the highest profit margins of all the regionals in the country, I think most pilots are not being unreasonable in asking for a fair deal!

 

[Tomct]

Man O Man, I LOVE the smell of Napalm in the moring!!!!! Looks like I am not the ONLY ONE who is tired of this CRAP! Like I said before, we have a MUCH better position being in ATL than any other DCI carrier as far as negotiations goes....! For the "Slow Group" I will state that I don't want a contract that makes us "Out of Sorts" for pay in the big picture scenario, I DO however expect...NO DEMAND a descent payraise and QOL issues right along with 100% Retro. Forget retirement and lets get on with it all! Only time will tell, but I feel we are going to be just fine!
Fly Safe!

 

[ParrotheadGTI]

well i hope things work out for the best!!

 

[wms]

Coerced? What, you can't think/decide for yourself? Give me the name of the ALPA rep who "coerced" you.

VOTED IN FAVOR!

I was there when that happened. He was in the crew room with a lap top. He was helping people get their passwords. He was helping others get online on the crew room computers, showing them how to log in and vote. And he was trying to get everyone who passed by to vote. But NEVER ONCE did I see him try to tell anyone WHICH WAY to to vote.

 

[wms]

Someone else drives off with the car (airplanes).

I'm not going to pay more for the car than I think it's worth. If someone else wants to then fine. I'll do without before I get ripped-off.

I won't agree to work for less than I'm worth. If someone else wants to that's fine, but I won't be taken advantage of.

I won't be treated worse than I deserve. If someone else caves on work rules that's their business. But I have standards and some dignity.

I am not afraid to go back into the job market if ASA won't agree to pay us what we deserve and treat us with a little common decency. SKYW may dissolve us for not giving in and we may go out of business, that's life in the airlines. It disgusts me that JA is letting this go on when we're only asking for what "his SKYW boys" already have with a few improvements to meet our needs. Meanwhile LJ, JB and their crew are willing to grovel like dogs and take whatever ASA offers because they fear the consequences for themselves more than they care about the well-being of the pilot group as a whole. If left up to them, life will be the same it's been for the last eight years because they don't want to rock the boat, and being senior enough they're content.

But it's about time someone (ie. all of us in the pilot group) had some big brass ones and stood up for themselves.

 

[ASARJMan]

Meanwhile LJ, JB and their crew are willing to grovel like dogs and take whatever ASA offers because they fear the consequences for themselves more than they care about the well-being of the pilot group as a whole. If left up to them, life will be the same it's been for the last eight years because they don't want to rock the boat, and being senior enough they're content.

If LJ and her coalition all get voted in, look for JB to be selected for MEC Chairman (have you noticed JB isn't running for any LEC positions?). If this happens, we're screwed as they only look out for them, not the pilot group as a whole. Be forewarned ASA pilots!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[ASARJMan]

But NEVER ONCE did I see him try to tell anyone WHICH WAY to to vote.

Thanks WMS for stepping up and setting the record straight.

VOTED IN FAVOR!