Skywest 90 CRJ seat pay vs. 50 seat CRJ

[avrodriver]

You're point might be made better if you hadn't used two companies that are in severe jeopardy right now, they might have better rates, but it's all moot if there not here next year or shrink/furlough.

Newsflash: The companies are not in jeopardy because of their payrates, that's just where the targets are being placed. Don't buy into managements bull@#$@.

 

[FightingIrish]

Newsflash: The companies are not in jeopardy because of their payrates, that's just where the targets are being placed. Don't buy into managements bull@#$@.

If pay doesn't play into the equation, why is everyone mad at Mesa, Chautaqua, and Skywest?

 

[OARfan]

It must have been imposed on them like the Mesaba guy...And, their BK court judge was OBVIOUSLY leaning on them heavily, right? Right? Wait, no BK judge? No FORCED pay cuts? This was for expansion purposes only? Screw everyone else? They did it for quicker upgrades? They probably would have lost the United contract otherwise.......riiiiiight......Oh, oooooookay.


Bye Bye--General Lee

PS--Waiting for Vogue5 to chime in..........

Thats what they had to do to compete with Chataqua, Mesa and everyone else. It was supposed to be temporary. The pilots ARE angry about that. What did Delta do to compete with Airtran, Southwest and Jetblue? As far as the regionals go, they're all the same, but most people have a pretty descent life at skywest. It'll never be perfect.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I don't know. I hear alot about this mythical "bar" being raised, but I don't see much evidence of it. I also see bad things happening to those who try to raise it. Is this about raising the bar, or is about falling on my sword? I want a raise, but I don't want to price myself out of a job either. If raising the bar means becoming the next ACA or Comair or Mesaba or ExpressJet, then no I'm not interested in raising the bar so someone else can undercut me for my job.

You really need to realize that a few bucks an hour more for flight crews is a tiny percentage of the total cost to operate the RJ!

 

[SkyNation]

You really need to realize that a few bucks an hour more for flight crews is a tiny percentage of the total cost to operate the RJ!

DING DING DING!!!!!

so when people piss and moan about SkyWest getting growth flying because we have the same rate on the 50/70, that is only a tiny part of the equation, right?

seems like I remember numbers being quoted when the AWAC UEX flying went out to bid ranging from $2400 down to $1900, not sure if that is per flight hour or the fee for departure. either way, obviously there is more to the story than pilot pay.

 

[avrodriver]

DING DING DING!!!!!

so when people piss and moan about SkyWest getting growth flying because we have the same rate on the 50/70, that is only a tiny part of the equation, right?

Don't get to excited...this also proves that with split rates you would have still gotten the flying. Instead of going into your pockets it went into mgmts.

Thats what they had to do to compete with Chataqua, Mesa and everyone else. It was supposed to be temporary.

With your reasoning it would have made them competitive for 18 months...then what? Here is a clip from a ATW article early 05...I know, I know...obviously it's just a mgmt wish list, but hey they were the ones that got the pilot group to sign it in the first place:

Flexible Workforce Owing to the fact of a nonunion workforce, SkyWest enjoys more flexibility than many of its competitors. Last year its pilots agreed to operate 70- and 90-seat aircraft at the same rates as 50-seaters. The agreement expires this year, but company officials are hopeful a similar arrangement can be negotiated.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

DING DING DING!!!!!

so when people piss and moan about SkyWest getting growth flying because we have the same rate on the 50/70, that is only a tiny part of the equation, right?

seems like I remember numbers being quoted when the AWAC UEX flying went out to bid ranging from $2400 down to $1900, not sure if that is per flight hour or the fee for departure. either way, obviously there is more to the story than pilot pay.

The point was that everyone doesn't have to keep racing to make less money to get growth! Like actually get a reasonable pay increase to keep up with, or even make a little headway for the last several years without COLA!! Not the 1.2% insult that was offered...and then have your constant anti-union input, but without any other suggestions as to how to make any progress towards a reasonable pay increase.

 

[bender]

Don't get to excited...this also proves that with split rates you would have still gotten the flying. Instead of going into your pockets it went into mgmts.

...and yet SKW management still offered both operational and performance rewards which equate to an extra $3 per hour for FOs and $5 per hour for CAs. That profit sharing plan is offered to ALL employees btw.

 

[avrodriver]

...and yet SKW management still offered both operational and performance rewards which equate to an extra $3 per hour for FOs and $5 per hour for CAs. That profit sharing plan is offered to ALL employees btw.

Ummm you were going to get that anyway, correct?

Tack it on to your same rate or tack it on to a split rate.

My point is you got taken for a ride and with that I think I'm going to retire from this thread it's getting old.

For the record I think Skywest is an excellent company to work for. I just think the pilot group made a big mistake...they weren't the first pilot group to make one. Good luck fixing it guys, and I do mean that.

 

[Gutenberg]

Corporate bankruptcy should not be the norm. If you can't charge what it costs to fly, then (in America) you deserve to be out of business. SkyWest is doing it the way it should be done, along with SWA and many others.

As to the Wal Mart comment: its one of the best, if not the best run company in the country if not the world. If the government didn't bail out some of the big guys a few years ago, they would have been forced to find a better way of doing business, or go broke. Look at Kmart. Nobody helped them and they had to merge with Sears.

 

[FightingIrish]

You really need to realize that a few bucks an hour more for flight crews is a tiny percentage of the total cost to operate the RJ!

I agree, but we are asking for more than "a few bucks an hour". If you push too far, you can end up like ACA, Comair, or Mesaba. I do agree that a few bucks an hour won't break the bank.

 

[Cardinal]

The plight of ACA, Comair, and Mesaba had very little to do with pilot pay demands. ACA, as an organization, decided to radically change their business model and run an RJ LCC. Apparently that is not possible. The employees deal with the fallout. Neither Comair nor Mesaba were in genuinely difficult financial circumstances before Comair's parent and Mesaba's sugardaddy entered bankruptcy. Then, almost as a matter of convenience, those companies were pulled into the maw and, hey, if you're in court already, may as well screw the employees out of what we can.

Pilot working conditions/demands did not impact ACA, CMR, or Mesaba.

Footnote: XJT is not "in jeopardy", heck, my airline sees 25% swings in capacity on an almost yearly basis, we've yet to shut down. XJT's profits and success will continue,

 

[Long Time Gone]

Did you guys here that Trans States started an alter ego airline? I think they are calling it Go-Jets. And also did you hear that the Berlin Wall fell? News to me.

Actually, we can't "here" you, but we can "hear" if we use our ears.

Nothing like a 4 year Riddle degree at Daddy's expense to fly jets for low wages.

 

[Jeepman]

And Skynation hit the nail on the head - I don't see hardly any Skywester's posting how crappy their company is but there are daily negative threads by ALL the other regionals - What's that tell ya?

Baja.

SkyWest is a crappy company. We get cancellation pay. We get a bonus check every quarter. Upgrades are running at a little over one year seniority. I'm really pissed because my next bonus checks probably going to be over $1100. blah, blah blah.


Look guys, Yes we do have issues & the 900 (configured for 76 seats) is a big issue. SAPA suspended pay talks, because of the union drive, but had such a revolt from the pilot group that they are continuing talks. And in the 5 years I have been here I have talked to more pilots who were with union carriers before who say that life is better here. Honestly the fact that we are still non-union speaks alot for how the pilot group has been treated. Unfortunately it feels like the QOL & other issues are degrading things to the point where we probably will vote in ALPA. Will ALPA be better for us? Only time will tell.

 

[MYFpilot]

On the contrary, I've still got 28 years of fun left in me:beer: . I may be wrong on this and skynation or bluto can correct me if so, but the SKW agreement cannot be arbitrarily changed w/o negotiations and approval from the collective group/council. This would be much like our contract except call it an amendment to our contract.

Fly Safe...

To answer your question, here's the first two paragraphs from the SKY agreement with it's employees...

1. Policy

A. Employment with SkyWest Airlines is voluntarily entered into and the
employee is free to resign at will at any time, with or without cause. Similarly,
the employer may terminate the employment relationship at will at any time,
wit hour without cause.

B. Policies set forth in the SkyWest Airlines Company Policy and the SkyWest
Airlines Employee Handbook are not intended to create a contract, nor are
they to be construed to constitute contractual obligations of any kind or a
contract of employment between the employer and any of its employees.
The provisions of the policy and handbook have been developed at the
discretion of management and may be amended or cancelled at any time
at the organization’s sole discretion.

 

[FishandFly]

What are you doing to get it changed???

Skywest pilots don't "get things changed"

That would require a backbone

 

[FishandFly]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyNation
ask anyone and they'll tell you that we make more $, have a better QOL, better run company, and better future prospects than Mesa. so, you're welcome.

It's good to be proud of the company you work for, but I wouldn't use Mesa as an example of anything that is right in this industry.

At least the mesa guys know they are getting screwed and are attempting to change things. SKYW pilots can't and won't stand up for themselves.

Example:

Atkins says fly 70's for current 50 rate temporarily.

SKYW Pilots accept the offer and have a flury of airplanes come there way.

SKYW Pilots mention to MGMT that they should discuss that whole "TEMPORARY PAY" thing.

MGMT Says stick it.

SKYW pilots say "yes sir, may I have another"

 

[rickair7777]

To answer your question, here's the first two paragraphs from the SKY agreement with it's employees...

1. Policy

A. Employment with SkyWest Airlines is voluntarily entered into and the
employee is free to resign at will at any time, with or without cause. Similarly,
the employer may terminate the employment relationship at will at any time,
wit hour without cause.

B. Policies set forth in the SkyWest Airlines Company Policy and the SkyWest
Airlines Employee Handbook are not intended to create a contract, nor are
they to be construed to constitute contractual obligations of any kind or a
contract of employment between the employer and any of its employees.
The provisions of the policy and handbook have been developed at the
discretion of management and may be amended or cancelled at any time
at the organization’s sole discretion.

This is the same boilerplate wording you will find at essentially any real-world company, It never caused me a problem in my previous non-flying jobs.

In reality the at-will employment thing does not mean the company can fire you for no reason and get away with it. All else aside, the court will require that all employees be treated equally amd with no malice. If you get fired for say, leaving the light on in your office overnight, the company would have to prove that they fire EVERYONE who ever left their office light on.

If a company fires you incorrectly, they can expect to make financial amends. If they grossly mistreat you, they are subject to millions in punitive damages. Even if a manager gets sideways, they usually need HR's permission to fire someone, and HR has an objective 3rd party outlook, plus they know the law. Something like this happened to me once when my boss wanted to fire me for going on military leave (she was PMSing). HR slapped her down pretty hard and apoligized to me.

Also, most companies today require a binding arbitration agreement for employment...SKW does not, so if necessary the courts would be at your disposal.

 

[Dubya]

At least the mesa guys know they are getting screwed and are attempting to change things. SKYW pilots can't and won't stand up for themselves.

Example:

Atkins says fly 70's for current 50 rate temporarily.

SKYW Pilots accept the offer and have a flury of airplanes come there way.

SKYW Pilots mention to MGMT that they should discuss that whole "TEMPORARY PAY" thing.

MGMT Says stick it.

SKYW pilots say "yes sir, may I have another"

....and ALPA has done what for Mesa? Let's see...pay for your own hotel for 6 weeks training....terrible pay....horrible QOL....horrible relations w/ mngmt. Gee I didn't get it til' just now....bring on the ALPA!

 

[thebest]

Skywest pilots don't "get things changed"

That would require a backbone

So would VOTING OUT alpa! But that would require a backbone and common sense! THEBEST

 

[Arrow11]

At least the mesa guys know they are getting screwed and are attempting to change things. SKYW pilots can't and won't stand up for themselves.

Example:

Atkins says fly 70's for current 50 rate temporarily.

SKYW Pilots accept the offer and have a flury of airplanes come there way.

SKYW Pilots mention to MGMT that they should discuss that whole "TEMPORARY PAY" thing.

MGMT Says stick it.

SKYW pilots say "yes sir, may I have another"

You forgot to mention the hundreds of SKYW pilots leaving and getting hired at Mesa, ASA, TSA, PSA, Eagle...oh wait....

 

[Crossky]

....and ALPA has done what for Mesa? Let's see...pay for your own hotel for 6 weeks training....terrible pay....horrible QOL....horrible relations w/ mngmt. Gee I didn't get it til' just now....bring on the ALPA!

Is that accurate about paying for your own hotel for 6 weeks? I used to see Mesa pilots in Denver at the Amerisuites, they weren't footing their own bill were they? That would be something they have in common with SKW newbies, until recently.

Alas, Mesa-ALPA is only one of many ALPA regionals, and you're aware of that. Your point is like calling a bicycle wheel bad just because one spoke is loose.

 

[Jeepman]

So what is the ASA pilot group asking for? What is ASA/SKYW management asking for?

 

[atrdriver]

Alaska is flying all the 737's (400, 700, 800, & 900) for the same rate as well - Any comments there?

Yeah, it's called a blended rate. It averages out the pay between all 4 models and makes 1 rate. Yours isn't a blended rate. You agreed to fly all A/C under 90 seats for what was then your 50 seat rate. That is NOT a blended rate, it was an attempt to undercut other 70 seat operators to get more growth. Now it has come back to bite you (cause your savior JA didn't renegotiate it after 18 months like he agreed), and you defend it by pointing to airlines that have REAL blended rates.

 

[ERJFO]

I used to fly freight for a company with "no contract" and we got paid and had better qol than all but probably Skywest, Horizon, and Wisky. Some of you whiners have no clue what your talking about.

That shows how little you know about Regional Airline pay and QOL... Have you read Air Wisconsin's, and Horizon's contracts? Do you know anything about Skywest's QOL? You don't have to answer that because I KNOW you don't. If by some crazy reason you do know something about the things I mentioned you sure aren't displaying it hear because I know of more than a few airlines with better pay and QOL than Skywest and Air Wisconsin...

 

[bender]

LOL, hurt that he didn't mention XJT? It's ok man, everyone knows XJT pilots have a nice contract.

I'd say the CHQ pilots are a pretty happy group as well.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Whats does a 10 yr CPT make at Skywest flying the 900?

 

[SuperKooter]

Anyone wonder why ASA pilots want ALPA at Skywest more than Skywest pilots? Could it be that there will be a few OO flights going into and around ATL later this year?

 

[ASARJMan]

Anyone wonder why ASA pilots want ALPA at Skywest more than Skywest pilots? Could it be that there will be a few OO flights going into and around ATL later this year?

Go back to your damn crash pad and watch the soaps willya loser! This clown leaves ASA for Continental and continues to bash ASA after he leaves. What a loser. One would think you'd be out looking at a new car, a boat, whatever with that big major job you have now. But noooooooo, you get your rocks off bashing ASA, ALPA, and ASA pilots. You're a friggin' loser!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Chairman]

Whats does a 10 yr CPT make at Skywest flying the 900?

Well I can tell you with less than 4 years with the company I will do 98k this year which includes 4k in bonus in 3 quarters. Next bonus check cut at the end of the month.