Competition for DayJet in Florida - Satsair SR22 Expansion

[On Your Six]

Probably not much of a comfort difference between the SR22 and the Eclipse. I have sat in the back of a brand new SR22 and it seriously wasn't bad at all... Satsair travelers are even able to use their laptops. Does anyone know if Satsair pax are allowed to sit up front with the pilot?

Read below:


SATSair Air Taxi Service Adds to Fleet with $45 Million, 100 Aircraft Purchase and Expands Service Area to Include Florida, Creating Jobs in the Eastern United States
Tuesday October 17, 10:00 am ET

GREENVILLE, S.C., Oct. 17 /PRNewswire/ -- SATSair, a provider of "Air Taxi" services, announced today that it will expand its service area to include Florida as part of their overall growth plan. SATSair has also signed a contract with Cirrus Design to acquire 50 Cirrus SR22 aircraft with options on an additional 50 in a deal valued at over $45 million.

We're excited about expanding our fleet and service area to include Florida," said Steve Hanvey, SATSair President and CEO. "The decision was customer-driven. We've had a tremendous interest level from people living in Florida; so starting November 1, we can now provide point-to-point, on-demand service to them at over 100 airports throughout the state."
Now in its second year of operation, SATSair will include Florida in its service area by November 1, 2006. Delivery has already begun on the aircraft, and the first 50 of the order will be delivered by early 2007. The fleet and service area expansions will create pilot, mechanic, and customer service jobs across the eastern United States, including over 300 in South Carolina and Florida.
"In addition to the initial 10 aircraft we will be placing in Florida right away, we will be increasing aircraft in key parts of our established service area to meet growing demand," said Hanvey. "The economic impact of the Cirrus contract is obvious, and the effects of the service area expansion will be realized in job creation, revenues at the airports and Fixed Based Operators we serve and by local businesses in our service area as they utilize our time-saving, cost-effective service."
Paula Raeburn, Executive Director of the Florida Aviation Trades Association (FATA) also commented, "SATSair will mean that business and leisure travelers will have an affordable way to travel throughout Florida and the southeastern United States by air without relying on scheduled airlines. The ability to travel on your schedule will make air travel the preferred way to meet with clients, take a short vacation or visit family anywhere, anytime. FATA is looking forward to working with SATSair to promote the general aviation industry to make air taxi service an integral part of how Florida does business." FATA represents general aviation in Florida.
SATSair is the first company to offer the innovative "Air Taxi" service based on extensive research and strategic relationships with agencies such as NASA and the FAA. Using new Cirrus SR22 aircraft, SATSair's mission is to provide safe, convenient, economical air travel and top-notch customer service. SATSair's service area includes much of the eastern United States, and the company plans continued expansion. For more information on SATSair, visit http://www.satsair.com. Contact:

 

[ReportCanoa]

Parachute controls are located above every passenger seat.

 

[pilotpat]

Parachute controls are located above every passenger seat.

First thing I thought is how many parachutes are going to be opened in the first year of the company's existance...

 

[Flywrite]

To answer the first question-yes, pax can sit up front.To answer the second-over a year now with no parachutes deployed.

 

[pilotpat]

-over a year now with no parachutes deployed.

Flywrite ~ looks like you just came up with the new advertisement banner! LOL

BTW, I'm just busting your chops, I wish they had this when I was first starting out looking for a job.

 

[Andrew_VT]

I always thought it was a shame they were using a Cirrus for this operation. A Columbia, bonanza, hell even a mooney are such better airplanes in almost every way.

Columbia for the speed/refinement/sturdy airframe(as far as composites go anyway...i dont trust the cirrus in heavy turbulance with their track record), bonanza for the payload and known ice, and mooney for the relative fuel economy/speed/known ice.

On the plus side for cirrus, they are a little cheaper than the others (cheaper in both uses of the word) and dont forget the parachute(which was required to get their certification because of nasty stall/spin characteristics)! I wonder how often they have to explain to their average heavy american clients that while the plane does have 3 seats, there is only enough payload for one guy and his bags plus the pilot. Plus, while i dont feel like supporting anything i say so I'll appoligize in advance for the purported slander, all the cirrus's based on my field are in the shop ALOT, somethings always breaking or needing work done on those things.

 

[AeroDMB]

hmmmm...jet or s/e prop for passenger comfort...seems like a no-brainer to me. Not competition for DayJet.

 

[Lazy8]

bet they'll eventually get the Cirrus jet whenever it comes out...

Anyone know the pay/schedule/benefits for SATSair?

 

[johnsonrod]

hmmmm...jet or s/e prop for passenger comfort...seems like a no-brainer to me. Not competition for DayJet.

Yeah but we're talking very short hops within Florida (they will compete in Florida initially). I have also sat in the back of an SR22 and I was surprised - felt like I was in the back of a BMW (contured seats and arm rest). I hear the Eclipse is as wide and comfortable as a Baron. It will be interesting to watch.

 

[Flywrite]

I always thought it was a shame they were using a Cirrus for this operation. A Columbia, bonanza, hell even a mooney are such better airplanes in almost every way.

Columbia for the speed/refinement/sturdy airframe(as far as composites go anyway...i dont trust the cirrus in heavy turbulance with their track record), bonanza for the payload and known ice, and mooney for the relative fuel economy/speed/known ice.

On the plus side for cirrus, they are a little cheaper than the others (cheaper in both uses of the word) and dont forget the parachute(which was required to get their certification because of nasty stall/spin characteristics)! I wonder how often they have to explain to their average heavy american clients that while the plane does have 3 seats, there is only enough payload for one guy and his bags plus the pilot. Plus, while i dont feel like supporting anything i say so I'll appoligize in advance for the purported slander, all the cirrus's based on my field are in the shop ALOT, somethings always breaking or needing work done on those things.

FYI-Though occasionally a SATSair trip cannot go without a fuel stop with 3 pax, there are no occasions of 'only enough payload for one passenger and bags'. Generally if a customer needs to move 3 people and a lot of bags 300 nm they will get a King Air. However, if they need to send two people 150 nm and return that evening, the SR22 works great at a fraction of the cost. It's called a niche market and it works.

It really is great that we could all benefit from your conclusion that the Cirrus is unsuitable based on an opinion that your freely admit you cannot be bothered to support.

I guess a modern, glass cockpit single with the ability to make a catastrophic airframe failure a survivable event is also inferior the to 40-year-old POS Apache you're building time in. I bet that thing's never in the shop...

 

[deadstick]

Flywrite -- chill! Jeez…

From the mouth of A&P at a Cirrus Service Center with 40+ years of experience "Give them another 6-7 years and they might have something." They are making a ton of money on Cirrus mx.

Just how many "catastrophic airframe failures" have happened out of the blue? I really have no idea. But I do know that several have happened for some other reason, like exceeding load limits. On a side note, I understand that it’s usually the negative limit that is exceeded. The CAPS system is a "+" when the aircraft is being flown by an inexperienced pilot who makes poor decisions -- unless the aircraft really is a P.O.S. For 135, the pilot shouldn't be an issue. Forget about the traffic pattern stall/spin scenario because the aircraft is too low for deployment. Scratch the enroute structural failures, too, because if you are scooting around at 180 kts and the wing falls off, what is the likelihood that you will be able to slow to the 130 or so kts max chute speed? The chute isn't the answer.

I believe that Andrew_VT was discussing other spin-tested, non-parachute-requiring “modern, glass cockpit single” and not a “40-year-old POS Apache.” The Columbia, G36, Saratoga, 6X, and the Cessna 206 – all fit that bill. Here are some facts:

Staying with the non-turbo models with AC
SR22 GTS: $449,995
Columbia 350SLX: $485,900

six-seaters that can carry more....
G36: $ 690,910
Saratoga II HP: $594,380
6X: $533,280
206H: $476,600

apples-to-apples with other 4-seaters…
182T: $351,600
Ovation 2GX: $438,000 (ac?)

The SR22 GTS is not the most expensive, but almost $100k more than the least expensive model.

 

[brett]

Also, we sometimes have people that book two planes for 3-6 people going the same place. Still cheaper than a King Air.

FYI-Though occasionally a SATSair trip cannot go without a fuel stop with 3 pax, there are no occasions of 'only enough payload for one passenger and bags'. Generally if a customer needs to move 3 people and a lot of bags 300 nm they will get a King Air. However, if they need to send two people 150 nm and return that evening, the SR22 works great at a fraction of the cost. It's called a niche market and it works.

 

[deadstick]

Also, we sometimes have people that book two planes for 3-6 people going the same place. Still cheaper than a King Air.

How so? The retail rate is $595/hr. According to Charter Hub, you can get a King Air 200 for $925/hr.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Andrew VT,
I've gotta disagree with ya.
I used to instruct in the Bonanza A36 and I've flown the Lancair Columbia 300 multiple times.
I've also flown the Cirrus SR22 and it was easily the best on the three. It was more comfortable, it flies better, it had more automation, and of course the parachute is a fine feature.
The Cirrus was faster than the A36 Bonanza, but slower than the Lancair. It was also quieter in the cockpit than the Bonanza.
I've never flown a Mooney, so I can't comment on that.

 

[FlyingSkip]

Early on when I started flying the Cirrus, I flew some guys into Pinehurst for the U.S. Open and was surrounded by other fly guys who were suitably impressed with the avionics, the parachute system and the overall qulaity of the aircraft. Mind you, these were Captains of Falcons, Lears, Gulfstreams etc who all said that it was an incredible value for the money, really impressive for such a small aircraft, etc---you fill in the blanks. There was a kid sitting there who was getting ready to take a lesson toward his Private and he proceeded to spout off about how HE was never going to trust all those new-fangled computer screens and such and he preferred his 172 because it was a much better aircraft! When the assembled crews AND his instructor (who was a Korean War-era military guy and then all the heavy iron career afterward credentials) stopped laughing they told him that once he actually knew what he was talking about he would know how wrong he was!

It's always amazing to me how people can be SO "lead from the front" in their criticism of stuff they know absolutely nothing about! Catholic priests tell people how to raise their kids, old men preach to young girls in trouble about what they should think about abortions and guys who have never done anything more than bang around the traffic pattern with a student saying "flare a bit more this time" are suddenly experts on what makes a viable aircraft for 135 work. I've had just enough Corona tonight to tell ya that if you haven't been out there watching your wings flexing in 60 kt winds flying freight, had to balance your take on the weather and that approaching squall line against how long it's going to take to load all those bags your pax just brought, or had to shoot your 3rd or 4th approach of the day down to dead mins and wished you had an autopilot to help ease the workload---pipe down. Somebody on here has a tag line about experience being something you have to earn, not something that can ever be bought, borrowed or given to ya---if you don't have any, ya might wanna think about how ridiculous it makes you look to comment on things you don't understand to others who actually have put in the time and endured the trouble to acquire it. I know I'm probably talking to the wall, but I gotta tell you---if you don't like something, then make that your personal limit that you won't do it, buy it or fly it....but to bust on something you don't even have any firsthand knowledge of is asinine. Abraham Lincoln once said "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to open your mouth and confirm the fact"---I can't think of anything more apropos for some of you young guys.

Flame on.

 

[brett]

It's only $420 an hour when the block package is purchased -- which is what most of the customers opt for. Also, there isn't any charge for dead legs.

How so? The retail rate is $595/hr. According to Charter Hub, you can get a King Air 200 for $925/hr.

 

[jeroom]

Early on when I started flying the Cirrus, I flew some guys into Pinehurst for the U.S. Open and was surrounded by other fly guys who were suitably impressed with the avionics, the parachute system and the overall qulaity of the aircraft. Mind you, these were Captains of Falcons, Lears, Gulfstreams etc who all said that it was an incredible value for the money, really impressive for such a small aircraft, etc---you fill in the blanks. There was a kid sitting there who was getting ready to take a lesson toward his Private and he proceeded to spout off about how HE was never going to trust all those new-fangled computer screens and such and he preferred his 172 because it was a much better aircraft! When the assembled crews AND his instructor (who was a Korean War-era military guy and then all the heavy iron career afterward credentials) stopped laughing they told him that once he actually knew what he was talking about he would know how wrong he was!

It's always amazing to me how people can be SO "lead from the front" in their criticism of stuff they know absolutely nothing about! Catholic priests tell people how to raise their kids, old men preach to young girls in trouble about what they should think about abortions and guys who have never done anything more than bang around the traffic pattern with a student saying "flare a bit more this time" are suddenly experts on what makes a viable aircraft for 135 work. I've had just enough Corona tonight to tell ya that if you haven't been out there watching your wings flexing in 60 kt winds flying freight, had to balance your take on the weather and that approaching squall line against how long it's going to take to load all those bags your pax just brought, or had to shoot your 3rd or 4th approach of the day down to dead mins and wished you had an autopilot to help ease the workload---pipe down. Somebody on here has a tag line about experience being something you have to earn, not something that can ever be bought, borrowed or given to ya---if you don't have any, ya might wanna think about how ridiculous it makes you look to comment on things you don't understand to others who actually have put in the time and endured the trouble to acquire it. I know I'm probably talking to the wall, but I gotta tell you---if you don't like something, then make that your personal limit that you won't do it, buy it or fly it....but to bust on something you don't even have any firsthand knowledge of is asinine. Abraham Lincoln once said "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to open your mouth and confirm the fact"---I can't think of anything more apropos for some of you young guys.

Flame on.

AMEN...

 

[DrewBlows]

I've never flown a Mooney, so I can't comment on that.

I've flown both, the Cirrus is not as fast as an Ovation, but it's much more comfortable from a passenger's perspective. The Mooney is my favorite airplane of those I've flown for any period of time, but if I had the disposible income to afford either, I would probably buy a Cirrus. Of course I haven't flown the Garmin Mooney.

 

[Publishers]

The other day we had an urgent need to get up to St. Pete and when we could not borrow a twin from anyone, decided to take a Cirrus from the flight school. At 6 ' 5 " and 255, I found the aircraft very comfortable. I flew the up leg and sat in the back for the return. The Columbia, Lancair, or Mooney are no comparison for comfort to someone my size.
It was 1.3 up there so just under 3 hours round trip. It would have been 4.7 to drive one way.
While we were using it for flight school rates, if we had been paying the charter rate above, it would have been about $1200 for the trip. Driving, we would have left early, spent money on car and gas, and most likely spent the night. Two rooms and meals $300 to $400, come back the next day, more gas and oil, and two full days blown for a one hour meeting. It would have been worth it. In our case, the aircraft cost us a little under $500 as we had the instructor for free so we would be legal. Definitely worth it and it would have been in a 172 as well.