ASA Mgt Rejects Arbitration

[ASADriver]

It still amazes me the number of people I fly with that actually think there will be another vote prior to our walk out. Seems alot of people didn't understand the concept that they were placing 100% of the decision to stike with the MEC and their judgement alone.

I have heard this from some pilots also. Seems some union types told people who were undecided about the vote to vote yes because they would get another chance to vote. Some of these people are upset that they were misled by the union.

 

[ASADriver]

I'm so tired of the "it's the workforce" argument. Explain to me why Airtran and Delta aren't in the toilet with ASA when it comes to performance numbers. It's not a demographic issue. It's an economic issue. Six bucks an hour doesn't buy much..... anywhere. If BL and crew would pay our below wing and above wing people what they're worth then you would get much higher quality people and, by extension, a higher quality product. Instead of dancing around with the "It's the workforce" comments, go ahead and say what you really mean. What demographic are you referring to, specifically? I, for one, am anxiously awaiting your answer. I'm looking forward to watching you back-pedal from that racist claim you're flirting with........

I was in DFW for years and it worked much better than ATL. The pay was the same. SLC and CVG also run much better than ATL - are they paid much better?

 

["GO AROUND"]

.........

 

["GO AROUND"]

I have heard this from some pilots also. Seems some union types told people who were undecided about the vote to vote yes because they would get another chance to vote. Some of these people are upset that they were misled by the union.

Ignorance is not an excuse. The whole union misled them or just one ignorant pilot? Cause you are saying the entire union misled these people. The entire MEC/CNC, all the reps, P2P's, committee members and the entire pilot group told these people that? I find it hard to believe.

A little exageration there?

PM me their name and I will personally have a face to face chat with them.

Futhermore, being too lazy to become informed from the right people is not an excuse to be upset now cause they now found out they listened to someone worse than being uninformed.

How many mailing and emails did the MEC/CNC put out explaining how this all works in great detail? I can remember about 5.

 

[www.]

Not if ASA goes on strike, then ASA is in breach of contract and Delta can do whatever they want. Which they obviously should be allowed to do.

First your a momma's boy, then your a low time putz, then you go to CAL and now your a lawyer. Pick one job and sick with it.

 

[AutoTransfer]

I don't believe anyone was misled. The same line I heard from all ALPA communications (personal or published) was that this was not an authorization to strike, but an authorization for our MEC to call a strike in the event one became necessary. If anyone misinterpreted that statement to believe they would have another vote down the line, then it appears they may have a comprehension problem. If anyone was lied to otherwise, I too would love to know who did it so that it can be stopped. I feel safe in saying that the strike authorization was an accurate assessment of the mood throughout the pilot force.
AT

 

[Morning Wood]

You know guys...the only reason ASA and SkyWest are making money is because of the contracts they have in place. Delta has to pony up for fuel and a lot of other stuff. Mark my words. As soon as most (if not all) of the flying becomes at risk and everyone has to fend for themselves we aren't going to be swimming in greebacks like we are now. People have either forgotten or weren't here when all the flying was at risk 10-15 years ago and the profits weren't half of what they are now. When that happens, guess who they're going to come after for concessions?

 

[Splinter]

That's the dumbest post I've read on here yet- we don't have $hi*.......We shut down tomorrow and I'll see you in the unemployment line the day after. We WILL be replaced and *NEWSFLASH* it won't be by a company that pays it's pilots more than ASA. Nor will the performance problems go away- IT'S THE WORKFORCE STUPID!!!!! Want to see how quickly 1700 (and shrinking) pilots can be replaced- Hold my beer and watch this................Sounds like somebody really likes reading and buying off on 100% of the ALPA coolaid. OPEN YOUR EYES AND THINK FOR YOURSELF!!!!!

You are no more enlightened. IF we strike, SkyWest will bleed all of its cash trying to replace 1700 pilots in a short period of time. Let's say that somehow they can train 200 pilots per month, which is impossible, it will take them 12 months to gear up enough qualified IPs and to train replacement pilots. Not going to happen. It's not ALPA koolaid, just fact. More likely is that SkyWest will lose all of that flying to other carriers both in the short and long term. Now this will not happen overnight. A strike will cost SkyWest about $16 million per day (based on the Comair Strike). Because they were foolish enought to sign that fee-for-departure deal, the first flight missed is an unrecoverable loss. Comair recovered 1/3 of their losses by rebooking pax through other cities...not so with ASA. We get paid to complete flights, it's Delta's job to put butts in seats. Each day of the strike will be the cost of one year of a new contract. There is plenty of money to go around, and plenty more to be made when ASA gets competent management and fixes our ops on the ramp. We have families to support, and the cost of living has outpaced us by 14% in Atlanta over the past 4+ years. Enough is enough, now pony up, oh #1 and 2 regionals in profitability!

 

[Splinter]

You know guys...the only reason ASA and SkyWest are making money is because of the contracts they have in place. Delta has to pony up for fuel and a lot of other stuff. Mark my words. As soon as most (if not all) of the flying becomes at risk and everyone has to fend for themselves we aren't going to be swimming in greebacks like we are now. People have either forgotten or weren't here when all the flying was at risk 10-15 years ago and the profits weren't half of what they are now. When that happens, guess who they're going to come after for concessions?

Let them come then! We need to throw the bull$hit flag here. I don't believe their tealeaves one little bit. There is no semblance of trust or honesty between the GO and the line, so let's take our chances. 37 quitters so far this month...aren't they getting the memo? People are fed up!

 

[Splinter]

Not if ASA goes on strike, then ASA is in breach of contract and Delta can do whatever they want. Which they obviously should be allowed to do.

Guys! We'll never see the pavement! ASA will cave. Better to cut profits by $16-20 million per year than lose the Delta contract and bleed $100 million in a week.

 

[Splinter]

Unfortunately, he'll probably be laughing all the way to the bank and just end up in another high paying management position somewhere else.

Let me ask this...if Delta thought that Skip and Brian were bright people and capable of great things in this industry, wouldn't they hang onto them and promote them up the ladder at Delta? Nope...they are morons who couldn't hack it at an airline spiraling toward chapter 11, and they got sent off to ASA wearing a dunce cap. They sucked at their old jobs, and blew at the next one. Again, ASA needs to throw serious $$$ at someone from JB, SWA, Virgin, etc. just to attract a CEO without a birdseye view of his colon polyps.

 

[Redan]

"ASA needs to throw serious $$$ at someone from JB, SWA, Virgin, etc. just to attract a CEO without a birdseye view of his colon polyps."


Amen brother! That's classic!

 

[scott hall]

Again, ASA needs to throw serious $$$ at someone from JB, SWA, Virgin, etc. just to attract a CEO without a birdseye view of his colon polyps.

I resemble that remark.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

I have heard this from some pilots also. Seems some union types told people who were undecided about the vote to vote yes because they would get another chance to vote. Some of these people are upset that they were misled by the union.

I don't know who the hell you are flying with. Commercial pilots that are that stupid?

Some of them.....? Oh, I get it, this is the age of Clinton, depends on what the definition of SOME is, probably you and one other?

Union types? Like the Gang of 4?

Dick

 

[twott driver]

Splinter, in 4 consecutive posts has pretty much summed it up. Put up or shut up. Enough of the crap and incompitence already. Give us a contract that is not laughable and lets get on with the business of making money.

 

[ASADriver]

Splinter, in 4 consecutive posts has pretty much summed it up. Put up or shut up. Enough of the crap and incompitence already. Give us a contract that is not laughable and lets get on with the business of making money.

ASA and Skywest are getting on with the business of making money. ALPA keeps pointing that out. What incentive does management have if we keep making money?

 

[BoilerUP]

What incentive does management have if we keep making money?

Not sure where you are going with that question, but I would hazard to say quite a bit more than if you were actively losing money...

 

[Medeco]

ASA and Skywest are getting on with the business of making money. ALPA keeps pointing that out. What incentive does management have if we keep making money?

That money will dry up according to management if we dont grow.

We cant grow, according to you mgt. types, if we dont settle the contract and know what our future cost will be.

ASADriver, if you are a line pilot at ASA, you are doing nothing to help yourself or the other ASA pilots come together.

You must be a GO type or have a sick sense of humor as you type your high school level rants.

Most of all, you are simply a jerk.

Why dont you post your rants on the ASA ALPA webboard so we know exactly who you are and can have some face to face debates?

Medeco

 

[VeeOne]

Well- there are some good points here. Guess the more prudent deal is to hope for the best but plan for the worst. Oh, and as for the DB that thinks I'm in line with Duh-Angelo....I'm pro union and pro ALPA, I just disagree with some things and have alternate views. Bottom line is an ASA strike isn't a script. Nobody knows how this will work out. Perhaps I've just got a twisted point of view on this because I've been through a strike that DIDN'T work out so well.............

 

[thebest]

:laugh:Can't WAIT to see 150 plus airplanes SITTING!!!! hahahaha It will be AWESOME!

Ya it will be real cool. THen Skywest starts dissolving ASA and ASA pilots go find other jobs and skyw moves to Atlanta. In a few years everyone will be like A. S. who? Hope it don't happen...........THEBEST

 

[FightingIrish]

Well- there are some good points here. Guess the more prudent deal is to hope for the best but plan for the worst. Oh, and as for the DB that thinks I'm in line with Duh-Angelo....I'm pro union and pro ALPA, I just disagree with some things and have alternate views. Bottom line is an ASA strike isn't a script. Nobody knows how this will work out. Perhaps I've just got a twisted point of view on this because I've been through a strike that DIDN'T work out so well.............

I agree with VeeOne. I support ALPA and think we need a payraise, but it seems like the hardcore ALPA guys just want to fight and they want a big raise. I voted to strike, but I am now regretting that decision. ALPA seems to want to ride this into the ground.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree with VeeOne. I support ALPA and think we need a payraise, but it seems like the hardcore ALPA guys just want to fight and they want a big raise. I voted to strike, but I am now regretting that decision. ALPA seems to want to ride this into the ground.

Like who??? Specifically, who has told you that they want a fight and a big raise. Let's here it so they have a chance to set the record straight.

 

[VeeOne]

Here is something that I would like to understand......why are we asking for a 70 seat rate that will surpass what a Captain at JetBlue would make at the 12 year mark????

Current 12 year pay (Fresh off Airline Pilot Central):

EMB190- 89 Dollars per hour
CRJ700- 86 Dollars per hour

Our CURRENT CRJ700 pay scale is close to what Delta and USAirways have proposed (and accepted) for their 90 seat pay.

 

[FightingIrish]

Here is something that I would like to understand......why are we asking for a 70 seat rate that will surpass what a Captain at JetBlue would make at the 12 year mark????

Current 12 year pay (Fresh off Airline Pilot Central):

EMB190- 89 Dollars per hour
CRJ700- 86 Dollars per hour

Our CURRENT CRJ700 pay scale is close to what Delta and USAirways have proposed (and accepted) for their 90 seat pay.

The answer I get when I ask the same question is because "we deserve it". I think we need a bigger raise on the 50 than the company offered, but the 70 seater isn't going to get the big raise some are looking for. We also aren't going to get the retirement plan.

 

[FightingIrish]

Like who??? Specifically, who has told you that they want a fight and a big raise. Let's here it so they have a chance to set the record straight.

WF, AT, RP all seem like they want a fight and big raises. They are an embarrassment to ALPA. Some of us aren't as unhappy as those 3 - including some YES voters.

 

[VeeOne]

WF, AT, RP all seem like they want a fight and big raises. They are an embarrassment to ALPA. Some of us aren't as unhappy as those 3 - including some YES voters.

Yea, no kidding. That's what I'm getting at, but I seem to incessantly get labled "management"........All I am looking for is a genuinely "FAIR" contract by regional industry standards. I sincerely hope that our ALPA leadership isn't making emotional decisions, but one predecated on wise business sense.

 

[www.]

Here is something that I would like to understand......why are we asking for a 70 seat rate that will surpass what a Captain at JetBlue would make at the 12 year mark????

Current 12 year pay (Fresh off Airline Pilot Central):

EMB190- 89 Dollars per hour
CRJ700- 86 Dollars per hour

Our CURRENT CRJ700 pay scale is close to what Delta and USAirways have proposed (and accepted) for their 90 seat pay.

How did you buy your last car? Did you go in low and the dealer came in high? Did he move towards you and then you did the same?

Negotiation 101. If you have something they want the cost to them just went up. Do you know what we are giving up if we take PBS at face value? Talk to someone that does and you will see the light.

This is not just about rates. It's about the end game. What do you walk away with at the end. The whole package.

 

[www.]

WF, AT, RP all seem like they want a fight and big raises. They are an embarrassment to ALPA. Some of us aren't as unhappy as those 3 - including some YES voters.

It's a poker game.

 

[FightingIrish]

It's a poker game.

It's a poker game that we are losing. I think we are bluffing with a really bad hand. "You got to know when to hold them, and know when to fold them". Some times you have to fold to live another day with a better hand - that is if you are a good poker player.

 

[CJA]

Everyone can bitch about Skywest "lowering the bar" because they fly 700's & 900's for 50 seat rates, but then act like we are asking too much when Delta, Jet Blue, US Air or any other "major" accepts a pay rate for some airplane they don't have that is less than what we ask for. I suppose if Southwest took 90 bucks an hour to fly a 737 it would be o.k. for ASA to fly a 700 for 50.. I say bullcrap. When did the majors decide to join the race to the bottom! This whole industry is screwed up.