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Jetblue headed to ORD?

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Dizel8 said:
I guess that was why AA was so mad about the LGB issue!

But hey, while you are here, why don't you tell me how UAL EARNED the gates at ORD?
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UAL has earned the gates/ slots at ORD with over 75 years of airline ops and by building facilities that meet our needs. It was not B6 that has built the terminals, infrastructure or various other hub neccessities. For the DOJ to steal them from another operator is just wrong.

As for ORD JFK and ORD LGB the rumored routes. No worries. I don't see those as being terribly successful. Also, it is going to be interesting for the B6 passengers to be left out in the cold when the B6 flight cancels to JFK and they learn they can not ride AA or UAL's hourly service to either EWR or LGA with their B6 ticket. With delays and flow at ORD it will happen quite often and it will be a wakeup call to those with B6 tickets. One thing AA and UAL have is the ability to juggle slot times when the weather goes down. With only 8 slots that will not be easy for B6.
 
MRYFLYER said:
If you have an issue with the BK process then perhaps you should work at the congessional level to make a change. Also, why not lobby ATL to GIVE you gates from the DL stash or pehaps DTW or MSP to give you NWA gates? On the ATL issue we know you had to pull out so perhaps if the DOJ gives you a hub you could make it work. At the same time how would B6 feel if the DOJ said you had too big of a prescence at JFK and you now had to GIVE gates to another carrier?

In the long run I hope you guys do come to ORD, just not at the expense of gates to UAL. The combination of AA and UAL have been very good at eliminating carriers at ORD. B6 will just be another Flyi when it is all said and done at ORD.
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Just for the record.....I'm an Insurance Agent.

:pimp:
 
MRYFLYER said:
As for ORD JFK and ORD LGB the rumored routes. No worries. I don't see those as being terribly successful.
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Actually it's quite smart. Splitting NYC and the City of Angels into 4 slots each allows Jetblue to spread the risk, thus forcing the competition to lower both routes if they want to put a hurting on B6.....very expensive. If the 320 is too big, they can always go to the 190.

:pimp:
 
lowecur said:
Read recently where CAL was the one losing their shirt in EWR. Analyst mentioned that CAL over-reacted on the Florida routes and it's cost them $25M in 4th Q of 2005. Jetblue's presence there is strictly to accomodate NJ travelers that had been driving to JFK. He mentioned Jetblue is breaking even on the routes.

:pimp:
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LC,

Just out of curiosity, where did you read that? Not doubting you, but route profitability info always seems to be a bigger secret than the formula for Coca-Cola. I don't know how they can be "losing their shirt" when they are flying the 757-300 on many of those routes, I believe it has the lowest CASM of any airplane flying.
 
EWR_FO said:
LC,

Just out of curiosity, where did you read that? Not doubting you, but route profitability info always seems to be a bigger secret than the formula for Coca-Cola. I don't know how they can be "losing their shirt" when they are flying the 757-300 on many of those routes, I believe it has the lowest CASM of any airplane flying.
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I found the info on Planebusiness where Holly posts comments from some of the analysts:

Interesting notes from Gary Chase at Lehmans:

In his note on Continental's results for the quarter, he says flatly that JetBlue's entry into Newark has "had a signficant impact on Continental's Newark hub."

Chase estimates that operating profit to six Florida markets (the JetBlue markets and Miami) declined by $23.65 million in the fourth quarter of 2005. Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale led the pack in terms of declines.

As Chase points out, because Continental's hubs in Houston and Cleveland have shown notable improvements -- in particular Houston -- this has allowed Continental to compete with JetBlue, and other competitors, pretty aggressively.

As to the issue of how well JetBlue is doing or not doing on the new routes, Chase contends that despite Continental's aggressive response, JetBlue posted "minimal" losses on its Florida routes out of Newark, with Ft. Lauderdale being the main laggard. Translation? For a new entry market, JetBlue is doing pretty well out of Newark



:pimp:
 
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G4G5 said:
I think that this is a bad bad bad idea. There has to be a better place to tie up an A320 then on the ground in ORD. I can remember spending more time on penalty box waiting for departure then it took to fly the trip. If they are seriously considering this then they are really starving for new routes to put their A320's on.

I would have to believe that an Island, vacation destination out of JFK would have better yeilds then spending all your profits on deicing fluid in the winter.
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Or an island destination (also Mexican Riviera) out of LAX would do better.
 
lowecur said:
In his note on Continental's results for the quarter, he says flatly that JetBlue's entry into Newark has "had a signficant impact on Continental's Newark hub."

Chase estimates that operating profit to six Florida markets (the JetBlue markets and Miami) declined by $23.65 million in the fourth quarter of 2005. Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale led the pack in terms of declines.

As Chase points out, because Continental's hubs in Houston and Cleveland have shown notable improvements -- in particular Houston -- this has allowed Continental to compete with JetBlue, and other competitors, pretty aggressively.

As to the issue of how well JetBlue is doing or not doing on the new routes, Chase contends that despite Continental's aggressive response, JetBlue posted "minimal" losses on its Florida routes out of Newark, with Ft. Lauderdale being the main laggard. Translation? For a new entry market, JetBlue is doing pretty well out of Newark
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That is interesting. I flew with a CP yesterday and specifically asked about the whole EWR-FL situation. He told me that every pax to board a B6 flight in EWR is counted. I assume they can figure out from these numbers how they are stacking up, but that is just my opinion (I could be way off base).

I really try to avoid the "my team is better than your team" arguments, but the impression I got from my conversation was that CAL is getting the results they are looking for, within the cost range they projected. Whether this is a good move, only time will tell.

I am by no means an analyst, but with only ten flights a day, total, from EWR-FL it's hard to see where a $23 million dollar impact comes from over a 90 day period.
 
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EWR_FO said:
That is interesting. I flew with a CP yesterday and specifically asked about the whole EWR-FL situation. He told me that every pax to board a B6 flight in EWR is counted. I assume they can figure out from these numbers how they are stacking up, but that is just my opinion (I could be way off base).

I really try to avoid the "my team is better than your team" arguments, but the impression I got from my conversation was that CAL is getting the results they are looking for, within the cost range they projected. Whether this is a good move, only time will tell.

I am by no means an analyst, but with only ten flights a day, total, from EWR-FL it's hard to see where a $23 million dollar impact comes from over a 90 day period.
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I think B6 wants to keep a toe in the water at EWR, but by no means do they plan a major expansion. After a year or two, both parties generally learn to live together once each determines they other represents no major threat.

Can't blame CAL for marking their territory, and I only see B6 moving out if mgt can't turn the expense side of the P&L in the next 6 to 8 months. B6 has lowered guidance to a -1% or +1% operating profit for the 3rd Q. This is below analysts expections and previous guidance (due to slowing economy and UK terrorist threat with increased security measures). They also will show a gain of $6M on (2) 320 sales in Sept and an "immaterial loss" in the 4th Q for the sale of the remaining (3) 320s. I look for them to sell some more old 320s in 07 as the economy continues it's slowdown. Oil prices should stick somewhere in the $50-60 range it this happens, and that should help all the carriers off-set the loss of revenue.

:pimp:

 
ORD-JFK and ORD-LGB will be the next routes announced. Was supposed to be announced about 10 days ago, but some last minute issues with the Chicago port authority in ref to gates.

Lowecur, I believe you are right after all about the 319. I can see jb getting some of those within 2 years. i think the g st.martin effect is a big factor in that decision.
 
zkmayo said:
ORD-JFK and ORD-LGB will be the next routes announced. Was supposed to be announced about 10 days ago, but some last minute issues with the Chicago port authority in ref to gates.

Lowecur, I believe you are right after all about the 319. I can see jb getting some of those within 2 years. i think the martin st. george effect is a big factor in that decision.
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I assume you are getting this through the drip down effect. Yeah, I think the ORD thing will happen and I still think STL will get a mini-base for the 190.

The 319 thing is being discussed over on airliners.net. It comes off a thread over at Flyertalk where an FA for Jetblue stated it was mentioned in a training class by an instructor at MCO. Still rumor, but it sure makes sense to me. (200) 320s is just too many in this type of environment. Jetblue needs to keep the 320 between 100-130 units and then substitute the rest of the order with the 319. I look for them to sell off another 5-10 units in 2007. Probably will not be able to get any 319s until 2008.

:pimp:
 
looks like the rumor was true

This was posted on the another website. Looks like Jetblue actually did request the slots from the FAA and wants prompt action to start service in Nov. Shouldn't be long till an announcement is made.

:pimp:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf98/415940_web.pdf
 
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Hey here is an idea, instead of blaming all the CEo's of "your" companies, why don't you work your way up into management and fix things! Start your own airline and do it right!
See most people here just bash their management, their CEOs etc... But no one here gives any solid advice as to how to resolve this problem. That is the core problem in this industry. Everyone complains and no one acts. The faults of the CEO also lay on your shoulders as well.
 
Prop2Jet,

Nice idea to work our way up to management. The only problem with that is airlines are in the good ole boy network. They're all buddies and somehow I don't think they would let a pilot into their ranks.
 
UAL busts balls

UAL responded to the Jetblue letter to the FAA very quickly(it shows they read these boards). They want Jetblue to wait until Oct 29th, 2006 before applying. They say this is proper protecol, and my guess is they are right. Jetblue will probably be forced to postpone any start date until probably 30 days after the approval.

:pimp:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p87/416545.pdf
 
I guess anybody could do well with free airplanes, free maintenance, no pilot contract, and gates and slots at the most coveted airports given to them by the politicians but then again what do I know...not much I guess.
 
Wednesday, October 4, 2006
JetBlue asks to fly to Chicago O'Hare​
JetBlue has asked the Federal Aviation Administration for landing rights at Chicago O'Hare. Flights could begin as early as November, if JetBlue's application wins approval. In the carrier's application with the FAA (PDF file), "JetBlue asserts it is a 'New Entrant Air Carrier' and is herein requesting the [FAA] Administrator's approval for the following eight arrival authorizations: 0830, 0930, 1000, 1030, 1100, 1130, 1130 and 1800."
 
Yuppyguppy said:
I guess anybody could do well with free airplanes, free maintenance, no pilot contract, and gates and slots at the most coveted airports given to them by the politicians but then again what do I know...not much I guess.
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What a RETARD...yea, our planes were given to us buy Airbus because they make so much money that they are now giving planes away, and maintenance, yea, that's free to. Good grief dude, do a little research before you spout off like an idiot...............
 
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Yuppyguppy said:
I guess anybody could do well with free airplanes, free maintenance, no pilot contract, and gates and slots at the most coveted airports given to them by the politicians but then again what do I know...not much I guess.
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tard.
 
Fin whats up with the avatar
 
Yuppyguppy said:
I guess anybody could do well with free airplanes, free maintenance, no pilot contract, and gates and slots at the most coveted airports given to them by the politicians but then again what do I know...not much I guess.
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Did someone shave and bathe you while you were in the coma?
 
I doubt that JB will be allowed unless they can find another airline willing to sell or lease their available slots. UAL and AA were forced to reduce flights because of congestion so it would be a hard sell to get them to change this stance.

United's quick response (and I'd guess AA's should be next) will pretty much seal JB's chance of entering ORD at this time. They can go to MDW with all the other LCC's.
 
FlyUnited said:
I doubt that JB will be allowed unless they can find another airline willing to sell or lease their available slots. UAL and AA were forced to reduce flights because of congestion so it would be a hard sell to get them to change this stance. Actually, I would bet the slots were cut as much as they were as a way to get other airlines in the door. It was reported that US Airways will give up one of their unused gates since their merger with AmericaWest.

United's quick response (and I'd guess AA's should be next) will pretty much seal JB's chance of entering ORD at this time. AA has already responded and said they have no problem with it. They can go to MDW with all the other LCC's.
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It's just amazing to me that the DOJ allows these quasi monopolies at key airports around the country. The response by UAL is sour grapes. They say protocol needs to be followed and that Jetblue cannot file a request until after 10/28/06. I'm not sure how the FAA will respond, but I personally see no problem with getting the request in prior to that date and letting the FAA make a pre-emtive decision to be effective after 10/28/06. Hopefully that will be the way it goes, but either way I believe Jetblue is in!

:pimp:
 

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