What's happening at AVANTAIR?

[CaptainJaguar]

What is going on out there guys/gals? I have a couple of friends that work there. I was speaking with one of them recently and he told me that avantair is going through some serious issues. Apparently they haven't paid their cellphone bill and owe about $57,000. I was also informed that they have had about 12 airplanes down for a couple of weeks and havent worked on most of them b/c they can't pay for parts. They owe Pratt & Whitney a butt load of money, A good number FOs company credit cards are being declined. The "Big" investor left apparently. Company credit card bills havent been payed in MONTHS, and the Avanti 2s are apparently not coming due to the company not having any money.
I just want to say to all my friends there and to the pilot group, good luck, I hope things work out for you guys. I wish you guys/gals the best and I'm sorry to hear that another good pilot group is getting FUC*ED because of pathetic management! and bad decisions!
I just hope this place doesn't end up like that airline from St. Pete that one day just closed its doors and left all its employees out on the street while the CEO left with "POCKET MONEY"....

 

[RoughAir]

I hope this thread works!

I just want the facts "ma'am".

 

[Just Peachy]

Money probs....

Sounds like the troops better look at the line they are signing at the hotels that sez: I guarentee payment of this bill no matter what credit card is being used. No company expense money, no trip............:bomb:

 

[glasspilot]

I would question why any current employee at Avantair would get on a public board such as this and trash the company. Just doesn't seem very smart to do anything that could diminish the chances of your own success.

With that said, I have heard the rumors out there. I don't have any personal experience with what you mentioned. My credit card is paid up to date. I don't have any forfeited AmEx points. (You forfeit points when the bill is paid late.) There has been no problem getting gas, hotels, lav service, rental cars, rental car gas, commissary supplies or anything else associated with running an airline.

I have spoke with management types and they inform me that the company is aligning itself for big plans, more planes, more plane types and the like. To that end they are trying to get a handle on expenses and prepare the company for the next phase of growth.

I truly hope Avantair has the legs to go the distance. I'm getting real tired of slinging gear for a living and even more tired of going to interviews.

I also truly hope those that like to smash and bash on these boards whenever Avantair comes up will try to use some restraint and apply the golden rule to their posts. A little empathy goes a long way.

Fly safe ya'll

 

[Diesel]

Every company I've been at has bigger and better plans coming just around the corner. I wouldn't hang your hat from what managment says. If its on the property, you have the keys, and you're getting paid to fly it then believe it.

Other than that anything bigger, faster, or more is just talk. It doesn't matter what company you're at. I hope avantair gets their stuff together, the last thing we need is more pilots on the street.

Sadly though where there is smoke there is fire.

 

[hammer2]

Every company I've been at has bigger and better plans coming just around the corner. I wouldn't hang your hat from what managment says. If its on the property, you have the keys, and you're getting paid to fly it then believe it.

Other than that anything bigger, faster, or more is just talk. It doesn't matter what company you're at. I hope avantair gets their stuff together, the last thing we need is more pilots on the street.

Sadly though where there is smoke there is fire.

Ditto. Problem is when you hear the bad rumors they are usually true.

 

[brewerdog]

no - the problem is the people that are happy don't usually sound off but the unhappy ones want to tell the world how bad it is and cry and compain and heap up the bad rumors and ...

my card has been paid, never refused

every company has problems if you look hard enough

 

[hyper]

The root of any and all the rumors at avantair is: management does not, and never has, kept the line in the loop. What happened to the advisory committee that was added to keep the pilots up to date as a result of the union scare? When folks are in the dark, that's when they start to grope. Rumors abound.

Is it true that management is filling with ex-FLOPs folks?

I've actually "heard" 2 possibilities by months end. 1 is very bad and the other will be over the top good. I'm hoping for option #2, but as Diesel said, when it's here it's here.

 

[Noodles]

I was talking to a supervisor the other day, and found out all kinds of interesting things. There are no spare parts, because they supplier has cut off Avantair for not paying the bill. I was also told that there are 6-8 Avanti II's that Piaggion really wants to deliver to Avantair, but there is no money to pay for them. My flying partner the other day could not use his AMEX, it was declined for not having the bill paid. I too have heard the cell phone bill is large and unpaid, hence the reason for the "crackdown" on overages. Did anybody know we only got 500 minutes before that email came out?

As for the pilot advisory thing, is anyone really surprised its dead? I mean, it was an easy way for the company to do something without really having to do something. They could pay lipservice to the fact that somethings going to happen, and people were not inclined to vote in a union. Although, I have heard rumors of another union push....

 

[whiskytangofoxt]

My pay is on time, and there is a Avanti II on the property, 135 conformity is Monday
As for the cell phone, When I got mine the contract I got said 450 minutes, and I am sure everybody else got the agreement.

 

[Dilligaff]

I've spoken to several management types lately, and I am cautiously encouraged by what I've heard. Here is what I've put together from talking to these people. Yes, the major investor left and no one is missing him (or his wife!). It turns out he was costing Avantair lots of money by using us for a shuttle service for him and his friends/family and he wasn't paying for it. He was told to put up or shut up and he chose to leave. The company is now positioning itself financially for growth with other fleet types so they are doing everything they can to conserve cash in the short term until these new growth plans are put into motion. We are still hiring pilots every month. If we knew we were in a position where we could not continue to grow, why would we bring on new pilots each month? We are actually a little overstaffed right now and more new hires are still coming through the door. I guess the true indicator of all of this will be if we announce anything at NBAA next month.

Also, I signed an agreement outlining my cell phone limits. I've known from day one what my limits were.

Like I said, this info came from many people in different areas of the company. Did they all conspire to hand me the same lies? Doubt it. For the record, I'm not a kool-aid drinker here. I've been burned by other companies in the past and I will never again just 'take someone's word for it'. I'm in a wait and see mode right now. If it works out, I'll be very happy. If not, the door will not hit me in the outflow valve!

Dilligaff

 

[CaptainJaguar]

deleted

 

[Flybet3]

Like I said, this info came from many people in different areas of the company. Did they all conspire to hand me the same lies? Doubt it. For the record, I'm not a kool-aid drinker here. I've been burned by other companies in the past and I will never again just 'take someone's word for it'. I'm in a wait and see mode right now. If it works out, I'll be very happy. If not, the door will not hit me in the outflow valve!

Dilligaff

I'll second everything that Dilligaff said. Like many other line pilots here, we are all just waiting to see what's going to happen at NBAA. We'll see what happens. Pretty much just 2 1/2 weeks till NBAA. Now concerning the credit cards, I've bumped in to a couple of guys that their credit cards were not working. And I hate to say it, but the cell phone thing is not a rumor. I like this company and like the airplane... This company has alot of plans and potential, and I want to be a part of it. But like my friend Dilligaff said, I'm tired of interviewing, doing initials and I will not relocate my family again! I will see you all at the "finish" line!!!

 

[mainiac]

Glad to hear from WTF that there's a II on the property! Saw the Astra in the hangar last week.
As to the cash conservation discussions, generally just prior to 'Aquisitions/Mergers/Major expansions', many medium to large-ish businesses will freeze all cashflow in order to have as accurate a financial statement as possible. Saw this phenomenon repeatedly in the Ski industry, my last "lucrative" 20 year career.

One of these days I've got to give up on this "Year off from college" thing!

 

[CaptainJaguar]

I would question why any current employee at Avantair would get on a public board such as this and trash the company. Just doesn't seem very smart to do anything that could diminish the chances of your own success.

With that said, I have heard the rumors out there. I don't have any personal experience with what you mentioned. My credit card is paid up to date. I don't have any forfeited AmEx points. (You forfeit points when the bill is paid late.) There has been no problem getting gas, hotels, lav service, rental cars, rental car gas, commissary supplies or anything else associated with running an airline.

I have spoke with management types and they inform me that the company is aligning itself for big plans, more planes, more plane types and the like. To that end they are trying to get a handle on expenses and prepare the company for the next phase of growth.

I truly hope Avantair has the legs to go the distance. I'm getting real tired of slinging gear for a living and even more tired of going to interviews.

I also truly hope those that like to smash and bash on these boards whenever Avantair comes up will try to use some restraint and apply the golden rule to their posts. A little empathy goes a long way.

Fly safe ya'll

Hey man, first of all I'm not an avantair employee. Secondly I have very close friends that work there, and they are not bad mouthing the company. They tell me that they are just nervious about this whole situation. I mean ask yourself this man, if all of this was not true and these were all just BS rumors, then why doesnt management adress and clarify these problems. Atleast try to put them all at ease. They've lost a couple of people as to what I have heard. Everyone besides my friends that work there like the job, and especially all the new guys were and are looking forward to a fast upgrade. But now what? A friend of mine basically said to me, there is something BIG coming that will either make or BREAK this company. The last thing I wanna see is all my fellow bothers and sister out on the street. Good luck guys!

 

[CaptainJaguar]

Glad to hear from WTF that there's a II on the property! Saw the Astra in the hangar last week.
As to the cash conservation discussions, generally just prior to 'Aquisitions/Mergers/Major expansions', many medium to large-ish businesses will freeze all cashflow in order to have as accurate a financial statement as possible. Saw this phenomenon repeatedly in the Ski industry, my last "lucrative" 20 year career.

One of these days I've got to give up on this "Year off from college" thing!

Well I hope your right, if there is a merger of some sort I just hope that it will be for the best. It's all about keeping the pilots happy. Pilots are the ones that matter the most in all of this. Why? well, if I have to answer this for you, then you're not a real pilot....

 

[fivefootnuthin]

hey all ...long time reader, 1st time poster haha
I'll say this ...i like my job, like the plane, made an investment in this place and I hope it turns out well. This money stuff is very disconcerning (assuming these stories have some truth to them, and im fearful they do) and sadly ...i've heard some others as well which add to my concern. Personally, i'm glad the big investor is gone if all he basically did was use this place for cash vaccuum, and I do hope the news at NBAA is good. It had better be, cause riding the planes and crews like they have, there IS a breaking point to be reached. But....continued hiring is a very good sign, as is the pending 7/7 ....so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. C'mon NBAA!!!

 

[Flybet3]

hey all ...long time reader, 1st time poster haha
I'll say this ...i like my job, like the plane, made an investment in this place and I hope it turns out well. This money stuff is very disconcerning (assuming these stories have some truth to them, and im fearful they do) and sadly ...i've heard some others as well which add to my concern. Personally, i'm glad the big investor is gone if all he basically did was use this place for cash vaccuum, and I do hope the news at NBAA is good. It had better be, cause riding the planes and crews like they have, there IS a breaking point to be reached. But....continued hiring is a very good sign, as is the pending 7/7 ....so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. C'mon NBAA!!!

Yeah, I think that Mr. R leaving was a good thing. I never had the "pleasure" of flying his wife, lucky me huh? Anyway, yeah I heard that this guy was costing the company more money than everything by giving away flights to his friends and using in like his personal limo. So I do hope things work out. 7/7 schedule is around the corner, everyone should've turned in their BID sheets this past friday. But like CaptJaguar said, there is something coming up that will either make or break this company. I heard that on the road this past week as well. I sure do hope that it will make...i dont wanna be part of any "breaking"

 

[P180puke]

I've spoken to several management types lately, and I am cautiously encouraged by what I've heard. Here is what I've put together from talking to these people. Yes, the major investor left and no one is missing him (or his wife!). It turns out he was costing Avantair lots of money by using us for a shuttle service for him and his friends/family and he wasn't paying for it. He was told to put up or shut up and he chose to leave. The company is now positioning itself financially for growth with other fleet types so they are doing everything they can to conserve cash in the short term until these new growth plans are put into motion. We are still hiring pilots every month. If we knew we were in a position where we could not continue to grow, why would we bring on new pilots each month? We are actually a little overstaffed right now and more new hires are still coming through the door. I guess the true indicator of all of this will be if we announce anything at NBAA next month.

Dilligaff

Agreed, I heard the same. And like hyper, I think I heard the same 2 possibilities. I too am not real comfortable though with the flops management crew, but I guess we'll wait and see.

 

[CaptainJaguar]

Agreed, I heard the same. And like hyper, I think I heard the same 2 possibilities. I too am not real comfortable though with the flops management crew, but I guess we'll wait and see.

But I thought FLOPS was having big problems too?

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

Well I hope your right, if there is a merger of some sort I just hope that it will be for the best. It's all about keeping the pilots happy. Pilots are the ones that matter the most in all of this. Why? well, if I have to answer this for you, then you're not a real pilot....

What all the folks out there have to realize is that Avantair has potential- but it needs to be taken over by good people. As long as the scumbags ( specifically one scumbag) who started the company have any control, the chance of success is limited.

 

[dime line]

What all the folks out there have to realize is that Avantair has potential- but it needs to be taken over by good people. As long as the scumbags ( specifically one scumbag) who started the company have any control, the chance of success is limited.


Well Crap....There goes the FLOPS/ AVANT merger rumor. We at FLOPS don't have any more good people, and most would call them scumbags, so the chance of this merger working would be slim to none, and slim is working at NetJets.

 

[Flybet3]

Come On Mbaa!!!!!

 

[fivefootnuthin]

I wonder ....couldnt Piaggio itself become an interest, much like Cessna did with Shares, Bombardier did with Exec, and so on? The kicker in all this is that guys love flying the plane, and the owners love it too...I dont think there's any question in that. I really dont know, but I think it's fair to say that things havent been handled too well with regard to the $$$'s, and that's clearly something that has to be corrected, regardless of who comes in.

 

[Noodles]

I think there's only one or two people inside Avantair that know what's truely going on, and they're not sharing that information. I do find it really interesting that a lot of management now is former FLOPS people. I know they announced large Piaggio orders at last years NBAA, but that was with the former investor. I have not heard if those orders or going to be kept or not.

No matter what happens, I know two people that will come out of this okay.

 

[Roma]

Without concrete facts announced or given out, all the information out there is biased and should not be taken seriously at all. Some piece of real infomation may get out, then depending on the attitude of the person that hears that info, they will spin it the way they want things to go (like fox news and GW). In aviation, eveyone worries about their job security, but worrying gets you no where. Our owners love these aircraft, and as long as they are happy and paying money, we will be flying them!

I have heard about the cell phone thing too. I came from a company that would make you send in a detailed summary to every number not in their network and a reason why you called outside of the network. They are a fortune 100 comany and very profitable. They just dont understand how to talk to people, or I would still be there. If your using your phone for the right reason (business), then you should not go over the minutes and you wont get a letter for management asking why you did. It only takes 1 person to ruin tings for everyone else. We are all here to make money, right? How can a company be profitable, and make money, when they are footing the bill for a handfull of rouge employees who dont want to follow the contract they signed! They shouldn't! Avantair is doing the right thing by cracking down on cell phone abuse.

 

[CaptainJaguar]

Without concrete facts announced or given out, all the information out there is biased and should not be taken seriously at all. Some piece of real infomation may get out, then depending on the attitude of the person that hears that info, they will spin it the way they want things to go (like fox news and GW). In aviation, eveyone worries about their job security, but worrying gets you no where. Our owners love these aircraft, and as long as they are happy and paying money, we will be flying them!

I have heard about the cell phone thing too. I came from a company that would make you send in a detailed summary to every number not in their network and a reason why you called outside of the network. They are a fortune 100 comany and very profitable. They just dont understand how to talk to people, or I would still be there. If your using your phone for the right reason (business), then you should not go over the minutes and you wont get a letter for management asking why you did. It only takes 1 person to ruin tings for everyone else. We are all here to make money, right? How can a company be profitable, and make money, when they are footing the bill for a handfull of rouge employees who dont want to follow the contract they signed! They shouldn't! Avantair is doing the right thing by cracking down on cell phone abuse.

OOOH, do I smell Management bull sh*t? what's the deal with management and giving them selves away so easily? Well maybe you could enlighten us as to what the future of the company is?? I mean we know what you're going to get, but what about my pilot brothers and sister who are a dime a dozen apparently to SS? If pilots don't benefit out of all of this, then no one should either. All I know is that the pilots are the ones out there doing ALL the work. I talk to my friends and they tell me that besides being pilot, baggage handlers and flight attendant, they are sometimes "dispatchers, customer service reps" and many other things, while some people just pretty much sit on their arss and plan their weekly family vacations. It makes me sick uke:

 

[P180puke]

Mmmmm, I'm bettin that shiny new TBM850 flies real nice on those family vacas. Probly as nice as the Premiers that were used for the same.

 

[Flybet3]

Mmmmm, I'm bettin that shiny new TBM850 flies real nice on those family vacas. Probly as nice as the Premiers that were used for the same.

OH OOOOOHHH.... SPAGETTIO!

 

[P180puke]

OH OOOOOHHH.... SPAGETTIO!

okay, i laughed on that one.