Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

American Flyers CFI Academy

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Canadair RJ

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2004
Posts
69
I'm currently working on Commercial, and should be finishing it up this spring/summer. I plan on being a CFI so I can build hours for the airlines, but I'm not quite sure on what to do for my CFI/CFII training. All my training has been part 61 so far, and I planned on getting my CFI/II ratings at my local FBO. However, I had a friend who attended American Flyers CFI Academy, and really enjoyed it and learned alot. The only downside is that it costs around $4,000 to $5,000. It would probably be cheaper to stay at my FBO, but I feel I can learn more at AF. Also, you can get your CFI and CFII is 30 days. So, I'm not quite sure what to do. Any CFIs out there who can shed some light would be appreciated and anybody else who has gone through this academy. Thanks for the help!
 
I am currently going through the same thing. I was going to stay at my local FBO, but they almost never have planes when I want one. They began phasing out the 152 slowly, but that leaves only the 172's for primary and advanced instruction. Not enough airplanes in other words.

I have looked into American Flyers too. And if you search this board, you'll find many differing opinions on Am Flyers, ATP,etc. I may go to American Flyers in Cleveland ( it's the closest to me and I have a brother who lives in Akron, not close, but free). Am Flyers is also a 30 day course that gives you CFI and double I as well, so take that into cost consideration compared to your FBO.

The regs state that the minimum flight time is 15 hours in the airplane type you'll be instructing in. That's the minimum, we all know that can be different for each person. I am guessing that's the same for each instructor rating you add, so I am guessing at 30 hours flight time for CFI and double I. At my FBO:
172 at $100/hr
Instructor at $35/hr
Tax at 7%
$10/hr fuel surcharge,

= $154/hr or $2300 for the 15 hour min. A 182 (they are more available) will be $700 more for the same time (182 is $145/hr.)

ATP gives you CFI, double I, and MEI provided you have a multi rating ( another $1000 if you don't). But at $5995, it's a bit steeper then Am Flyers. It is only a 14 day course at ATP, but to me, that's a lot to cover in 14 days. But if you only have 2 weeks to do it, that might be an option.

Whatever I decide, I'll post here. Hopefully, you do the same.
 
AF CFI program can be a good deal for the money, but expect to pay a little more for some extra flight time.

The local manager and/or chief pilot makes a big difference in the program, so go talk to them first...if they seem like slimeballs, they probably are!!!

KSMO has good folks.
 
Which location?

Which location will you be training at? I used to work for them long ago and location makes a big difference. The program is great if you want knowledge. If you just want a rating go somewhere else. If you do go to Flyers insist that they don't pass you around like a sorority girl. Get them to keep you with the same two or three instructors through the program.
 
I did CFII at ADS in the early 1990s. I stayed with two instructors the entire time.

If...IF...they don't require the money up front, DON'T pay a lump sum. I did that and it took nearly a year to get the balance back. I had $700 remaining on account and they will never know how close I was to using an attorney (a co-worker's husband) to get that money back.

If you use American Flyers, pay as you go.

All that said, it was money well spent and I was well prepared. If you apply yourself and prepare ahead of time, it's great. Otherwise, it costs you more. The interaction you experience with fellow CFI/CFII applicants is invaluable.

Good luck...fly safe!
 
I agree with everyone here. You WILL learn, you WILL become a confident instructor, and you WILL blow everyone out of the water when you interview because you know how to teach.

I'd also avoid ATP's 14 day program. You will get your ratings and not be able to teach a damn thing. All its good for is getting your rating in no time. Not recommended for an initial CFI.

I've done both (CFI & CFII at Flyers, MEI at ATP).

GreatChecko
 
Thanks for the advice! It will really help me make a decsion here. If I do choose AFA for sure, I will be applying to the FLL school and I'll hopefully be attending in July.
 
The A/F program does a great job of teaching how to teach but spends very little time on teaching the basics of the private/commercial oral type questions. Most CFI applicants that fail from Flyers do so because they don't understand such relationships as CAS/IAS/TAS/GS, altimetery, engine operations, the map, CTAF, performance, etc., so in those cases the applicants can not explain what they don't understand themselves. However what little they may understand beforehand, they can usually explain well. Unfortunately, that just isn't good enough.

So the bottom line, Flyers does a good job if you really have the knowledge you should have for the certificates already held. Otherwise get up to speed first then go to Flyers CFI Academy.

Neither American Flyers nor anyone else mortal can work miracles.
 
Last edited:
I did AFA in Pompano Beach, FL for my CFI/CFII and paid $3,000 (it may be more now) I finished my training in the 10 hours of flight time they include with the fee. Take advantage of the free frasca time they offer while you prep for your CFII ride. Also, I recommend taking your CFII as your initial ride instead of the CFI, I think its easier to do the CFII as the initial as long as you're current and proficient.

The only compaint I had was the $160 they required me to spend on "textbooks", which consisted of FAA manuals photocopied, 3-hole punched, and inserted into a fancy American Flyers binder. Don't do it! Ask them to see the "textbooks" before you pay for anything and inform them that you can purchase the same material at an FBO for less than $40.

Other than that Pat (at the Pompano location) is a great guy and a great ground instructor.
 
Anyone know anything about the cfi academy in morristown new jersey,... Ive got a syllabus from them, looks pretty good....
 
I would recommend the program in Addison. They have a professional career type CFI there named Heath that really knows his stuff. The ground portion of their program is the best in the business, however I can't say the same for their flight training. The flight training is extremely overpriced, but the ground sessions are worth every penny. And be careful what MIKE? tells you about the price. It only includes 10 hours of flight time that must be completed in 30 days, and everything after that is billed out at some rediculious rate. But once again, I will say Heath was the best ground instructor I ever had. That includes instructors that I have had at the airlines! I wonder if there is any way to just do the ground portion at American Flyers?
 
Hey , Thanks for the reply. IN the info packet I received from them they say that 19.3 hours of flight time in a 172/172rg is included in the 3995. Is that not the case? Thanks..
 
Maybe they have changed it, but I doubt it. Call them and ask.
 
My .02.

I have been teaching Academy off and on for about 3 years. As I proof read this post I realized that it sounds very pro AF. Let me say that I think that AF is way over priced and that the value of flight instruction certainly doesn't justify the price premium... except for the academy. The academy still kicks ass and takes names.

A few pointers:

1) flight time is very pricey compared to just about anyone else. the good news is: how much you need depends on you. make sure, MAKE SURE that you are good, (not ok, not a little rusty, I mean you would be proud to show your mom good) on the IFR needles. and for the VFR bit, to CPL PTA standards on your maneuvers. Also, if you can, start the right seat transition before you go to AF, (the picture does change, especially for vertigo in IMC or hood and for precision landings in VFR)

2) Be familiar (and by this I mean study, have a cheat sheet for the frequencies etc) with the approaches of the area you will be training/ testing in. Bottom line is, you need to be able to fly the a/c while talking to atc and teaching your ''student''... talk about multi-tasking! not having to hunt for the atis frequency will make a huge difference in your efficiency in the cockpit.

1) and 2) are really important if you choose a metro area (especially smo) because believe me, you will be worked by ATC. If you are honest with yourself and show up to the academy only when these are your standards, your extra costs will be minimal, possibly none (the academy cost includes a certain number of flight hours, I forget how much). I have seen it happen.

3) I completely agree with the assesment that you go to the academy because you want knowledge. there are a ton of places where you can get the ratings in a week. That is completely your decision. what I can say is that if a friend of mine were learning how to fly, I would rather see him or her with an instructor who believes that knowledge and structure are an important part of flight training.
I don't know what UndauntedFlyer is talking about, we spend four hours a day for 30 STRAIGHT DAYS in class on all the things he/she mentioned in the post. Typically, the ground instructors are people with current/past airline experience, chief pilots, etc etc. not the new kid in the school by any means. Same is true for the flight portion, although you might get a junior guy every now and then, and ironically this may come to your advantage, especially if they went through the program they can relate to your experience because it was theirs not too long ago.

4) attitude: the basic idea is, the academy should be your only concern for 30 days. take it as a job or even more than that, a mission (i know it sounds silly but here is why). you get 4 daily hours of ground school, where you alternate between learning and practicing your teaching (in front of the podium to you your classmates and instructors-- fun but at times brutally honest experience). The rest of the day is yours. flying is integrated in teh rest of the day. When I mean yours, what I mean is that you are still in the classroom until dark, studying your ass off. If you don't, you're cheating yoruself out of the money you spent, and you will go over budget because with all respect I will not sign you off if I don't think you are ready.
A typical academy day is 8am to 6pm or even 8pm. so the question is, are you willing to put that much work into it???

If you are, You'll literally feel the bits and pieces of knowledge clicking together. I guarantee that you'll have a blast... why? Because, most of the time, whoever is teaching is having a blast too, because for them it is really exciting and fun to finally have the time to analyze any flying topic without time constraints (how much time can you spend talking about a stall, and how much time do you suppose you have to introduce stalls to a student pilot, in a normal syllabus?)

so have fun, good luck. and for your money's worth, start only when you are ready! take care
 
DWH and Gary Krueger is the best ground teacher out there. Knows his stuff. If he's still teaching it you can't go wrong at the DWH location!
 
How many locations around the country now have the American Flyers CFI Academy? Which are the current locations?

I only know that the DuPage (Chicago) location closed several years ago.
 
According to AF, Dupage is still open. Other "academy" schools are: Pompano FL, Addison TX, Morristown NJ, Santa Monica CA. I might have left one out.

I have made the decision to attend AF for the CFI Academy. I live in Pittsburgh, so Morristown is closest. But I am not opposed to going elsewhere and for some reason, I like the idea of going to Texas. But that adds to the cost big time, even if I would drive ( I don't like not having wheels for 30 days and renting a car would be another $500 at least, plus airfare around $400 to DFW)

I decided to do AF just so I could go DO IT, rather then be put off by scheduling conflicts, aircraft unavailability,etc. (and my own laziness) at the local flight school. 30 days of undivided attention to learning to be a CFI just seems to be better for me personally. Luckily, I have money saved for bills, a flexible job and an understanding wife.

Anyone have any reasons for me to go to Texas instead of NJ? And vice-versa?
 
Last edited:
I am also thinking about going to the morristown location. Question though about the flying, if you do need the extra hours, or for that matter just want to do some exta flying, make a trip home etc, are the planes available to rent and take for a day, or an hour.. Or is it similiar to ATP where you pretty much can only fly with an instructor. Also, how many sims, if any do they have at the morristown location, and lastly, if you have the writtens finished, do you have to attend the written prep class, or can you chill and go home for the weekend. Any info is appreciated.
 
Regardless of where you get the CFI ratings, you will still be very green when you begin to teach real students. After approximately 100 hours of dual given, you should be a fairly effective and competent instructor. Just understand that regardless, you will make mistakes and be less than perfect no matter where you get those ratings. It's all about experience.

A lot of what it takes to earn the CFI tickets is very dependant on the individual. Study as much as you can before going to these pilot mills. Another idea is to bring a friend along for a few flights and practice on them before heading out to one of these programs. Once you've got the ratings, get a job and it'll all fall into place.

Don't rely too heavily on the program itself. Most of these short, accelerated courses dont teach much other than how to get the rating in said amount of time.

You'll learn it much better by being out there teaching.
 
Really the most important thing is the school's relationship with the FAA. If they use the same DESIGNATED EXAMINER most all the time then that is the school to use without doubt. If they use only the FSDO then it is a gamble as to which inspector you'll get. The examiners maintain a closer communication relationship with the schools so they are your best best.
 
UndauntedFlyer said:
Really the most important thing is the school's relationship with the FAA. If they use the same DESIGNATED EXAMINER most all the time then that is the school to use without doubt. If they use only the FSDO then it is a gamble as to which inspector you'll get. The examiners maintain a closer communication relationship with the schools so they are your best best.

I don't suppose you could tell me whether the PWK location has such a relationship with an examiner?
 
Just got through with the CFI Academy at Morristown. I feel it was well worth the time and money I spent. Some examples:

1.) Derry Galbreath is such a calm and cool individual and I learned more from him in a month then from all my previous instructors. This is not a dig at my previous instructors, you can only do so much with a 2 hour (or less) block of time). It really does prove that to really learn something, you should learn how to teach it.

2.)The director at Morristown, Lucas, is very sharp, knows his stuff and talks a mile a minute. Quite a character and a fine instructor. The assistant chief, Rob, is excellent too.

3.) The instructors I had while I was there covered a wide range, from a 20 year old guy in college to a retired state trooper. They had all been through American Flyers CFI course, so the instruction was mostly the same. It is a bit odd to be "passed around like a sorority girl" as one poster here put it, but since I rarely had a schedule block of less then 4 hours, giving plenty of time to "read" that instructor. It also teaches you how it is to fly with different people.

Sometimes, you would ride along in observation, land somewhere, and then you would fly. To those who did ERAU or another "academy" school, that's nothing new. But it really makes a difference to someone coming from an FBO-type environment.

In general:

1) If you do go for the CFI academy, be sure your instrument skills are sharp and that you fly from the right seat once or twice prior. My first day was 3.2 hours Hobbs, first time right seat, and was in actual IFR, something I hadn't done in a long time. Overwhelmed is an understatement But using the sim at American Flyers ( for "free", since it's included in the CFI course) really helped me get back on track.

2.) The reason for #1 is money. The only downside is that AF is expensive if you go "over" on the included time, compared to the prices I am used to anyway. All told, I spent about $5500 for the CFI course, for a total of 23 hours of flight time, slightly more then the 19 or so in the course price. With food and lodging for a month, a little more then $7000. In my previous post, I figured it was nearly even between staying home or going to AF. And it only took 30 days, not months it possibly would have taken me at my local school.

3.) Go to the AF locations with a CFI Academy, don't do "one on one" if you can avoid it. AF is very expensive in that regard, almost $200/hr for plane and instructor.

4.) If you go to any location in a major metro area, make sure your ATC skills are sharp. Trying to learn proper ATC and how to teach in a totally unfamiliar area was very daunting for one guy in my class.



American Flyers might not be for everyone and every location is different. But personally, it worked out well for me. Any questions, either post here or PM me.

PS. AF does not rent airplanes, they only use them for instruction. The R models are in good shape and I was never stuck on the ground by a maintenence problem. The 172 RG they use for the commercial, well, that's different. Safe, yes. Old and tired, most definitely. But since it is 20 years old and has been used as a trainer since day one, the old bird still worked well enough. 14,000 hrs. TTAF is a lot of hard landings, especially for an RG.
 
Last edited:
I went to the AF in ADS for CFI rating back in 1999. The groundschool was good, The flying was a ripoff and they didn't get checkrides for anyone in our class for aroun d 2 months. . .Long story. . .they ripped us all off! Mike Simmons sure talks a load of crap though!
 
Academy

Hey everyone. I just recently graduated college and I'm looking to start the cfi academy in january in fort lauderdale (PMP). Anyone recently done this at that location? I have open ears and wanna hear the good, the bad, and the ugly. thanks in advace.
 
I went to the AF in ADS for CFI rating back in 1999. The groundschool was good, The flying was a ripoff and they didn't get checkrides for anyone in our class for around 2 months. . .Long story. . .they ripped us all off! Mike Simmons sure talks a load of crap though!

That pretty much sums it up. Find somewhere else to go and don't listen to the line of crap they spew
 
I would say just do it at your local FBO. The oral is 70% of the CFI checkride ride anyways. So that is just going to require you to do a lot of studying on your own. You aren't going to need any new technical knowledge, just how to teach. All you need is a local flight instructor for this. The amount of flying shouldn't take long either since you are just off of the commercial, therefore all of the maneuvers are fresh.
 
I am a current employee at american flyers. I have been on and off their for a while. The CFI academy is the best bang for your buck, if you don't want the flyers manuals tell them no. Most important is know your stuff before you get their. The academy is set to teach you how to teach, what you already know. Use the free frasca time. At the PMP location there is only 4-5 two year instructors with the least senior being myself (4 years at the company). The rest of the cfi instructors are the chief pilots. Its totally worth the money you spend. If you don't like something speak up, or if you need help just ask. however keep it simple, don't try to overwork yourself. One of the examiners, the FSDO selects for you for the initial, will cover the whole PTS, so be familiar. Hope to see ya around PMP, hope this helps.
 
The only two complaints I had about the program were:

1) The cost of the flying, insane!

2) The inspector I had at the LOV FSDO use to be a American Flyers CP that they FIRED! Good luck passing that ride!
 

Latest posts

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom