Your thoughts about PBS?

[NuGuy]

NWA uses the Airware system, and it absolutely rocks. Even junior guys have some measure of control over their schedule, which is a huge improvement.

The caveot, however, is that you have to have ROCK SOLID CONTROL over the program code involved. No ifs, ands or buts. Do not leave the various program settings and "tweaks" in the code left to the company to work you over with.

Be in a position where the union can pull the plug at any time and go back to the paper bidding method. The company will grow addicted to the increase in productivity, and if you can hang this sword over their heads, you can turn the screws and keep them tight. You need that kind of leverage to keep things on the up and up.

Best bet is to have a commitee go visit NWA ALPA's commitee. They had things set up right, and there is no reason to re-invent the wheel.

Nu

 

[klhoard]

You must be kidding. You are talking about the trips that leave Anchorage around 8-10am local time, fly to Narita, and then fly to the final destination. All daylight flying, except in the middle of winter, everyone shows up rested because of the departure time, usually no one really needs a break because no one is tired. This is probably the easiest international flying with the exception of the trips that go only ANC-NRT.

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Well, then I guess I'll start requesting them in my VTO's, or better yet VLT. They should be pretty easy to get. . .
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[surplus1]

NWA uses the Airware system, and it absolutely rocks. Even junior guys have some measure of control over their schedule, which is a huge improvement.

The caveot, however, is that you have to have ROCK SOLID CONTROL over the program code involved. No ifs, ands or buts. Do not leave the various program settings and "tweaks" in the code left to the company to work you over with.

Be in a position where the union can pull the plug at any time and go back to the paper bidding method. The company will grow addicted to the increase in productivity, and if you can hang this sword over their heads, you can turn the screws and keep them tight. You need that kind of leverage to keep things on the up and up.

Best bet is to have a commitee go visit NWA ALPA's commitee. They had things set up right, and there is no reason to re-invent the wheel.

Nu

You are, IMO, 100% correct. NWA picked the best software and wrote the "right" contractual terms. It not only works, it works well. Kudos to your scheduling committe.

Perhaps you will get the FedX folks to visit and learn from NWA people, should they decide to take a serious look. At Delta, it is unfortunately more likely that they will re-invent the wheel and it won't be round.

At CMR we have been using PBS since 1987. The system we have is decidedly not the best, it is outdated (even though it has been "patched" more often than Microsoft products). However, we do have very specific contractual control of the current system and the right to reject any replacement. Several years ago (same time frame as NWA), we chose Airwares as the tentative replacement and set it up right for us. When Delta bought our company, the Airwares effort was canned and as you might guess, the Company pushed for AdOpt, the same junk used at Delta Express. Since then we have been unable to reach an agreement and the outdated system remains in place as a result.

We will never give up the "rock solid control" you mentioned, regardless of which software we use. It is absolutely essential. Without it, seniority can easily by rendered useless by the Company. ALL PBS programs contain the hidden code "tweaks" that you mention. If the union is unaware of what they are and cannot control them, you'll be taken to the cleaners by the Company without recourse.

Another thing to consider is this. A PBS system does not build trips (pairings), it awards trips built by a different system. Therefore if you have no control over the trip build parameters you could wind up with the classic garbage-in, garbage-out. If all the pairings are bad, the PBS system will award those bad pairings. It can't give you what isn't there to begin with. Both of these software programs should therefore be subject to union control and agreement, if you want the best.

Keep in mind that the company is already using computer software to construct the parings (trips) you see in your line-bid system. It is more than likey also using computer software to build the lines you now bid on. You just have no say in the process. Your merely get to "choose" a line built by the company from pairings built by the company.

IMO, a good PBS will still be better than line bids simply because you build your own line of time (from available pairings) the way you prefer it to be. The choices available exceed by far anything that the company will or can do in a preconstructed line of time.

You will have to learn how to use it, of course, but it is not difficult (ecepting the numbers game of AdOpt). AdOpt can work well if you're a geek but not so well if you're not. In contrast, Airwares is really simple.

A word of caution with the open time paramaters. If that's not right, the system will force unwanted trips on your line, regardless of your bid, as it seeks to meet the open time paramater. Called "stacking" or "the stack" by most programs, this is what can destroy seniority if you're not cautious. Airwares is best at managing the stack, IMO.

Disclaimer: I do not have now, and I have never had any business relationship with the company that makes Airware or any of its principals. I also have no investment of any kind in that company. To the best of my knowledge, I also have no relatives or friends employed by that company. I just happen to think they wrote the best program (for pilots) of the lot.

Good luck.

 

[Cliff_S]

I'm near the bottom in ANC so I'm pretty used to VTOs. They've been fine for me most of the time. HOWEVER, I only list one requirement: "Desire one commute" and I generally get that. Don't know what I'd do if I had real options...!

The ANC-NRT-NGO lines seem like they'd be easy to fly, but I avoid them because they're disputed. The union disputes them on the grounds they violate the intent of having an RFO, and I support that. If we don't, I can see the company adding RFOs for all sorts of weird combinations.

Surplus1, NuGuy, and 75M, thanks a lot for your detailed replies.

 

[FoxHunter]

The ANC-NRT-NGO lines seem like they'd be easy to fly, but I avoid them because they're disputed. The union disputes them on the grounds they violate the intent of having an RFO, and I support that. If we don't, I can see the company adding RFOs for all sorts of weird combinations.

So you agree that the flying is easy, but you support the union because someone decided it is not. Some may claim it violates the intent of having a RFO, it does not. The union appears to pick fights over issues that sould never have been issues. They seem to have managed to establish a solid 100% average. That, is on the loss side.

 

[VaB]

So you agree that the flying is easy, but you support the union because someone decided it is not. Some may claim it violates the intent of having a RFO, it does not. The union appears to pick fights over issues that sould never have been issues. They seem to have managed to establish a solid 100% average. That, is on the loss side.

Easy there girls. This is not the place for this discussion. Why don't you guys meet up in the F Street, then you can go beat each others brains in over this one. However, I wouldn't do it here. Everybody's reading.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

With the current state of the airline industry, at least the passenger side of it, I believe that PBS will become the "industry standard" as carriers attempt to realize every possible efficiency in their operation. If your carrier is not making money, it probably cannot afford to have pilots off for a month using one week of vacation. Pilots per airplane and pilots per block hour are what every airline needs to minimize.

 

[NuGuy]

You will have to learn how to use it, of course, but it is not difficult (ecepting the numbers game of AdOpt). AdOpt can work well if you're a geek but not so well if you're not. In contrast, Airwares is really simple.

Heyas Fins,

You are correct. As best I understand it, the AdOpt system only allows you indirect control over your bid line, using a set of weights in your bid. The Airware system, however, allows direct control.

You are also correct about the trips. The company will use a seperate program to generate the trips. If they build bad trips, there's not much you can do about it.

Nu

 

[klhoard]

So you agree that the flying is easy, but you support the union because someone decided it is not. Some may claim it violates the intent of having a RFO, it does not. The union appears to pick fights over issues that sould never have been issues. They seem to have managed to establish a solid 100% average. That, is on the loss side.

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So. . . why not double crew the ANC departure and then you can probably make ANC - NRT - NGO - SFS - BKK - ALA all in one duty period!!!
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It should be easy flying, right? I mean you start out in daylight.
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[FoxHunter]

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So. . . why not double crew the ANC departure and then you can probably make ANC - NRT - NGO - SFS - BKK - ALA all in one duty period!!!
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It should be easy flying, right? I mean you start out in daylight.
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No, you would run out of both duty and flight time. You can add that it would be an abuse. Two daytime legs are just fine, we've done it for years to Europe at the wrong side of the clock. If you had an open mind, rather than the "Party Line", you would find out some of the problems are not really problems at all. Just created problems to stir the troops up.

You can see the responses from people that have worked with PBS are for the most part positive, not the "PBS over my dead body" rhetoric I hear among the crew force at FedEx. I'm sort of senior now and can use the present system very much to my advantage, but I realize PBS may be better from both the pilot and company position. As far as I see the big problem is how PBS is used, not the system itself.