Young Wanna-do

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

Hey guys,
Its great to be here, looks like an awesome community you have.

First off, let me introduce myself. I'm an aspiring 14 year old who has one goal, get up in the air ASAP. I've been interested for aviation as long as I can remember. We have photos of me spotting at DFW when I was two, tapes of me stating my future occupation would be an "Aiwpwane piwot" at three, etc.. Now I spend my days flying anything from ultra-lights to 737s into KSAN in Flightsim. You could say I'm a bit addicted, I've spent well over $1,000 on addons (yoke, pedals, planes, the works.)

I went flying from Nashville to Knoxville, TN in a C172 roughly 4 months ago, and if any of you here have the flying bug you know this is far to long to be on the ground. I'm just about ready to climb a water-tower to get that much closer to the big o'l blue.

Anywho, as you may see I am very interested in training for my PPL. The only problem I have is age. I have no problem what-so-ever funding the training, I drag in around $2,000 a month with freelance web development. In case you fellas don't know (which I dont' count on), the minimum solo age is 16, minimum to get your PPL is 17. To say the least, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

In one way I wish to get in the air and start cranking away at that PPL flying twice a week. On another note, I'd like to wait till I'm 17 to start. I figure that if I start now and get those 15-25 hours for the solo done, I'm going to be waiting a good two years till I can stretch my wings solo. But... if I wait till I'm 17, I'll end up in the loony bin screaming "voooooooosh!" and running in circles with my arms sprawled out. Not a pretty picture in my mind (even though I'm on the brink of doing this at the moment.)

Does any one have a suggestion as to what I should do? I'm about ready to take an intro flight regardless of what I choose, its been too long since I've been flying.

 

[Lead Sled]

If I were you I go find a glider school and get started. You can solo a glider at 14, get your PPL-Glider at 16. Why wait, you'll have a great head start on the others and you'll gain valuable skills that will be a help to you throughout your career. You can find a school at www.ssa.org

'Sled

 

[banned username 2]

My advice to you is take an occasional "Intro Flight" to keep yourself interested and such (once every 2-3 months), but don't lay out any serious cash until you are old enough to get the PPL completed, you don't want to drag that training over 3 years... it really would be counter productive and cost you a lot more money in the long run.

I would say once you are about 16 1/2 start training 2-3 times a week towards your PPL, you'll probably get your Certificate just about the time you turn 17... THEN start working on your Instrument rating right after you finish...

Hope this helps!

(P.s. I was Full Time Flight Instructor for nearly 3 years, I seen a few kids in your exact predicament, they all did fine flying once in a while to keep them happy and then going full bore when they got to 16 1/2)

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

Lead Sled: I've actually looked into this, forgot to mention in my post. There are no glier camps/schools within 100+ miles of my house. I doubt any one in my family would be willing to drive me to one of these once a week.

Falcon Capt: Thanks for the addvice! I'll keep this in mind

 

[mmmdonut]

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[350DRIVER]

I would probably spend the money on a few intro-flights just to get up in the air until you get a tad older. Once you hit 15 1/2 then would be the time to seriously start flying and taking the "lessons", possibly an hour every other week. Once you hit the magic "16" then step it up a little bit and increase the lessons so on your 17th birthday you will be able to take the checkride. I wouldn't rush into things at this point in the ball game since you still have quite a bit of time to get your "feet wet". I applaud your desire and ambition to want to get a head start and "fly" but I don't see any need to dish out a lot of money present day especially at your age. Let time takes it toll and all the rest will fall into place and it will put you in a pretty good situation so you are able to take your PVT checkride on your 17th birthday.

Look at these upcoming flights as more or less "enjoyment" flights but also log the flight time and soak up as much knowledge as you can since that will allow you to mature in more ways than one and also get you ahead of the curve.

I have flown with many younger guys in your age bracket and this was the plan of action that I suggested and it seemed to work out quite well for all involved. You may even want to get into some sort of formal ground school program that many will offer you at a reduced cost due to your age. The former flight school that I once upon a time instructed at would offer pretty nice discounts for those who are in your position, spouses, etc, so you may want to inquire and look into these options that may or may not be available to you depending on the flight schools around you.

You are never too young to "start learning", try to enjoy these younger years though and allow yourself to get the best of both worlds. If I were you I would come up with some sort of plan of action since many flight schools will try and take your money and will attempt to talk you into starting full steam ahead now (present day) which I personally don't think would be in your best interest.

Speak to your parents about your desire to want to fly, explain to them the age problem that you are faced with and have them go with you to the local flight school with a plan of action.


I would also put some of that $2,000 away into some sort of "flying account" for future purposes. Flying is not cheap as I am sure you are aware of and if you are able to have a nice flying fund then that should make the financial situation much better and lesson the burden 1 to 2 years down the line. It will start to get somewhat expensive once you get into your instrument training and so on.

Once again, I applaud your determination and can only hope that you are able to get back up in the air soon.

good luck young one,

3 5 0

 

[nosehair]

Two new words for you, Jon-Kyle: "Sport-Pilot", & "SpaceShip One".

DoIt,DoIt,DoIt

 

[minitour]

I'd start studying up...take the occasional flight once every couple of weeks...maybe an hour here or there...just get really good at the basics...don't worry about spicing things up yet.

But get a REALLY good knowledge on everything you possibly can...

Maybe on the weeks you don't fly, you could do 1-2 hours of ground time. Start with the Private Pilot books and work your way through...Start memorizing checklists of the aircraft models you'll be flying...

Just keep studying and reviewing, and I'll bet by the time you're 18 you'll be able to fly through your Commercial/CFI stuff.

If you're bringing in $2000 a month, as 350 said, you should probably put some/most of that away for flying.

Try to find a good instructor to teach you the fundamentals. Once you learn the basics, everything else is just combining the basics to make those "complex maneuvers".

If I could go back to your age and start over (especially with your financial situation), I would have started with a little flying and a lot of studying/ground time. Then I would have started working hard core on my PPL just before 16 so I could solo AT 16. Also, I would have probably tried to do all of my ratings while going to school and at a place that has a 135 charter operation tied in to it. I'm sure there's one near you.

I'm sure if you did all of your ratings at a school with a 135 operation (and did well) you could probably jump right into the 135 stuff (part time) out of HS (as SIC). Then get your 4 year degree, and by the time thats done you've got 1800/800 or something like that...you'd be perfect for a regional...

Sounds like you've got a lot going for you as far as getting started. Just work hard and I'm sure you'll do fine.

Good Luck
-mini

 

[bafanguy]

Would the Civil Air Patrol be a way to get some exposure to airplanes ?

 

[de727ups]

Sport pilot isn't going to help cause you still have to be 16 to take the checkride.

I'd make friends with a local pilot who will help keep you in the air and nurture your interest in aviation. If you were around Spokane, WA I could keep you busy.

 

[cessna_driver2]

Work part time at an airport washing planes. I think you have to be 18 to do the line service thing. But maybe you and wash them. This way you can network your flying & website design even more.

The Civil air patrol is also a good idea. The do have positions for cadets as observers in the a/c. There is usually a lot of trips for CAP to bigger airports w/ glider operations. CAP also help w/ crowd control during a lot of the major air shows like oshkosh. (great way to go to a free airshow.)


Wish you luck.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

350DRIVER: Great idea about putting some of the money away for flying. The only thing I spend it on is aviation at the moment (scanners, flightsim, etc.) I greatly appreciate your help!

nosehair: haha, I actually was looking forward to the sport-pilot area, as I thought the solo age would be lowered to 14 as in gliders. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait and go for the PPL. I would'nt mind taking a flight in SpaceShip 1, though

minitour: I spend quite a bit of time in flightsim. This really helps as far as IFR and aircraft opps go. I've got the entire 737 start up (from battery switch to flipping the engines over to "CONT" before taking off) memorized. I also have the C172 checklist down, I made my own in DreamWeaver that I printed out for my own use.

I've been looking into the King Schools PPL package. I got a little demo from Sportys in the mail and I scored 98% on it when I gave the testing a go, not bad if you ask me

I appreciate all the recommendations!

bafanguy: Gotcha there, I'm already a member of CAP. I've been rather busy lately and have not had time to go to any meetings. I don't want to show up just for the O-flights, so I've been skipping out on them, too. Its another way to get in the air, I figured why not! I'd still like to go flying right seat every once and a while, though.

de727ups: My local airport (Smyrna, KMQY) is the most un-friendly civil airport out there. You'd think it was a military base, barbed wire fencing around the perimeter, ID cards to open gates, etc.. You can't even get to the FBO without possessing an ID card to get in, real bummer.

As a matter of fact, yesterday I went over there to check out an avionics shop. There were to fellas who worked there sitting on the porch, I asked "May I come in and browse around a bit?" They simply replied with "No..." I figured it was insurance, something like that. I was about to take out my AOPA card, but I figured it would do me no good.

This being said, there is no way to correspond with pilots as the fence is around 250 feet from the ramp area . Let me know if you ever come down to the Nashville area

cessna_driver2: I don't think there are any jobs left at our local airport, a friend's dad just got laid off from a mechanic shop. I'd be willing to scrub down the tarmac with a toothbrush, pretty much anything.


Once again guys, I appreciate all the feedback and suggestions!

 

[Flyguy6]

Well, its not as if once you do your 15-25 hours,you have to stop flying until you get 17 years old. I know these twin brothers that started when they were 15 years old. They both soloed on their 16th birthday. Nowm they have been flying , doing cross countries and flight planning. They will definantly be ready for their checkride on their 17th birthday. So, I would suggest that you fly and study and just develop your skill. Heck, build that dual time. It will only put you ahead of the game and keep you fresh on the skills.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

I know that, Flyguy6, but it would be waisting money as I would hit a wall by the time I am around 30 hours into it. I could do XCs, etc., but I think it would be smarter overall to wait and do maybe a lesson every 2-3 months.

 

[minitour]

Why couldn't you get your maneuvers up to PTS before you go on your first solo? Maybe even get a CFII to take you into some actual instead of doing the required 3 hours as simulated? How about starting Basic Attitude Instrument Control?

If you can get the Private Pilot stuff to PTS or better, I don't think you'll be wasting your time. Once a month would be good...maybe just an hour or two. Go on some dual cross countries. Once you really nail the Private stuff, maybe get some complex time or HP time (if you can). Try to go right seat (even though you can't log it) with a private pilot or an instrument pilot on some cross countries...

There's lots you could do...at least thats what I would have done. I would have loved to have flown once a month at 14 and just NAIL the PTS on the Private ride...by the time you're 17 you'll have well over 100 hours...be well on your way to the commercial...

-mini

 

[uwochris]

JonKyle,

Something to keep in mind... do not get too hooked on FS. You will be surprised once you start formal flight training about how different the two can be. FS is good for IFR stuff, but you shouldn't even be thinking about flying IFR until you got the VFR stuff down.

I used to play a lot of FS and it almost worked against me for the PPL training. I always had a hard time learning NOT to stare at the instruments, which is vital for your VFR training.

Just keep in mind that FS is a game, and not reality. Flying an airliner on the cp is nothing at all similar to flying one in real life. I am by no means an expert myself, but once you get to the higher levels, you will really have to develop a good understanding of not just procedures, but also systems, CRM, etc. You cannot learn these things in a computer game. And just because you can land a 737 on FS does not mean you can land one in real life I have spoken to people who think they can land a 747 just because they can do it on FS...

I guess what I am trying to say is slow down... do not rush your career, but by all means, do not go at a turtle's pace You are young, very young. Do not treat your youth as a "race" to the airlines. Realize that there is a lot of work involved in getting to the airlines- also realize that many people have fallen on hard times in this industry (very low pay, lay-offs, long periods of unemployment, etc). Keep the passion alive, work hard, and never give up. Try to spend your time away from FS, and put it towards something more useful (I would heavily recommend reading as many books as you can about PPL training... read groundschool books, take practice exams, etc). This will be much more useful than FS, in my opinion.

Good luck with your career, and never try to rush anything, because you will only end up forgetting about all the fun you had climbing the corporate ladder (ie. always take time to smell the roses ).

Chris.

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

I know that FS can not accurately simulate real world flight dynamics, I merely fly in FS for fun. Put me in a 172 now and I could probably land it, but you'll need a new plane by the time I come to a stop

I went up in a 172 with CAP a couple months ago, I got to fly a bit of the time. I noticed that I too was looking down at the panel, but I noticed it and corrected the problem. I found an attitude that kept me at the right altitude and speed, made a reference mark (like the distance from the magnetic compass to the horizon line) to keep that attitude and took in all the scenery.

Even though I would be getting my IFR ticket later, you still should know how to track a VOR, ADF, etc.. I tracked a VOR while we were up and the pilot was rather impressed with my knowledge of IFR training, it was all from flightsim.

I am by no means an expert myself, but once you get to the higher levels, you will really have to develop a good understanding of not just procedures, but also systems, CRM, etc.

Have you by any chance seen the PMDG 737 series? It has all the procedures, FMC, etc.. I have a 125 page manual and thirty page checklist with all procedures explained. If you sat me in a real world 737 now I could more then likely do the whole start up and get you to the runway, but don't expect me to fly it!

I know FlightSim is a game, but it is a very accurate simulation of real life at the same time. It has kept me interested in aviation for a long while, as I've not had access to a plane. When I was 5 my father and I picked up FS, by the time I was 9 I was shooting CATII ILS approaches into ORD. I don't think I'll "give" flightsim up and go only reading about flying, Its a passion of mine and I enjoy doing it.

I also read a lot, AOPA flight training, etc.. I've found a ton of useful info about landing, VFR and IFR flight and more. Great stuff!

I am by no means "racing to the airlines", merely racing to the skies, as I love to fly

 

[de727ups]

You need to meet some people who are sympathetic to your cause. The guys at the avionics shop see you as a stupid kid who might steal their Garmin 430. Or they are just jerks. Might I suggest seeing if there is a local EAA chapter in your area. (www.eaa.org) Go to a meeting, stand up and say "I'm 14 and I'm a computer whiz. I love flying and I'd trade time in your airplane for helping you figure out how to get Service Pack 2 downloaded onto your computer or maybe help you out with a web site....please help me".

Honestly, I think you'll find someone who would help you out.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

You need to meet some people who are sympathetic to your cause. The guys at the avionics shop see you as a stupid kid who might steal their Garmin 430. Or they are just jerks. Might I suggest seeing if there is a local EAA chapter in your area. (www.eaa.org) Go to a meeting, stand up and say "I'm 14 and I'm a computer whiz. I love flying and I'd trade time in your airplane for helping you figure out how to get Service Pack 2 downloaded onto your computer or maybe help you out with a web site....please help me".

Honestly, I think you'll find someone who would help you out.

I like that. Take de727ups's advice and go for it. He always has great advice!

I was about your age when I took my first demo flight, I started flight training when I turned 15 and soloed shortly after my 16th BD following a PPL after 17 and everything else came after that.

Have fun and enjoy flying!

 

[Jon-Kyle Mohr]

Great idea, 727! There are two pretty close near by: http://eaa419.org/ and http://www.eaa162.org/ . I'll try to persuade my father into taking me to a meeting

 

[Jetter2]

I remember the good 'ol days. I'm lucky enough to live 6 miles from a great little unicom airport. I first got into flying out of there when I was a boyscout working on my aviation merrit badge, the FBO had a RV-4 and offered me a ride. We chatted it up, and I met some of his comrades with Archers, Bonanzas, Skylane's cardnials etc. The older guys are the ones that are really neat, don't be afraid to say "I'd be more than happy to was your airplane for ya", man I got so many rides that way. I hate washing my car but I love washing the airplanes! Now that I got my PPL a month ago, I go out there and offer to buy them breakfeast to log some PIC time with em since I am rated in almost all the planes I fly in now.

 

[minty fresh]

Gulfstream is hiring

 

[lawfly]

I took an intro lesson ("demo flight") at age 14 at my then local airport. Actually, the school allowed me to take 2 of them. They were $5 (five bucks) back then. Rental of a new PA-28-140 was $16/hr and instructor was $8/hr. I couldn't stay away, either, and took lessons at irregular intervals, soloing on my 16th b-day (frequency and intervals became more regular as I approached that date). I read everything I could find on aviation, and, yes, I too had what was then an AM-Aviation VHF Band Receiver which drove everyone crazy. (You can learn a lot from listening to it.) I was able to stay with the same instructor through solo and beyond. He did leave for another job before I got my private. I ended up getting a bunch of ratings at that school, and they even extended me a small discount on the hourly rate and also hired me later as a part time CFI at age 19. (I did end up having more than average hours for my private because of stretching out the training to age 16 and then age 17, but I got all subsequent ratings in or very close to miminum time.) As an instructor, I generally recommended 1-2 times a week to most people, but the 14 year old who is "addicted" is a special case. Of course, discuss it with your parents. One thing I don't endorse (but to each his own) is this idea in recent years of pre-solo teenagers and youngsters embarking on "record-setting" and "record-breaking" flights which are essentially very long dual cross-country flights. Best wishes to you!!
Oh, I had checked out the glider/sailplane thing, too, but it was 300 miles away.

 

[Aviator409]

Reading this reminds me of myself at the age of 14. I also was hooked on flight sim (microsoft flight sim) for the majority of my youth. Microsoft flight simulator is not just for IFR flights. It is also VERY helpful for the basics as well. Without my experience on flight simulator, I wouldnt of been able to land the plane by myself on my second try (first lesson) and solo'd at only 10.5 hours. It taught me how to hold altitudes, make great landings, and it puts you in the habit of scanning the instruments. However, flight sim is not 100% accurate. Comparing the sim 172 with the real thing is somewhat comparable, but I can find some big flaws. It wont be detrimental to your PPL, but just dont get too hooked. One word of advise - Dont stretch your private pilot training. I did, and I deeply regret it.