You boys afraid of something?

[super ed]

Flyer,

Facts are facts. Not only are Com/ASA costs higher than mainline Delta I bet they are twice that of SWA or Jetblue. Pilot wages aren't a major factor in CASM the "s" stands for seats the RJ is expensive. Now if you talk about RASM that is how the RJ makes it's money. "R" stands for revenue the rj can currently get a revenue premium. Next time it may help you to do some research before you run your mouth.

Super

 

[canadflyau]

Gotta agree with Super Ed

Fuel Costs make up a far greater percentage of CASM than Pilot Salaries, or of all labor costs for that matter. The only reason CASM is probably much lower is b/c of all the costs that are rolled up into DAL's CASM, that are not rolled into ASA's CASM.. I.E there are so many business functions that are not required by us regionals... We are told what routes to fly (no Network Anaysts Dept), all advertising is done by Delta (no Marketing), and I could go on and on about the many parts of the infrastructiure that are charged to mainline Delta, it works best that way for Mgt instead of evenly distrubiting it across all seats in the Delta owned Sys (DAL, COM, ASA, soon to be SONG)

However I feel strongly about ASA getting a healthy payraise, and so should all DAL pilots... SJ's pilots are underpaid considering the RASM's they are now generating... these pilots aren't flying props anymore and are basically flying small mainline jets, and if everyone would take that attitude and begin aiding in getting the pay for these pilots in lline for all the SJ operators that would be a start.. DALPA could start demanding accounting principles that require them to evenly distrubute all costs evenly across all Delta owned seats... you wait, Song will be super succesful as DAL mainlines book take on many of the operational costs of an airlines within the airline that will not share its revenue with DAL books. I used to work with mgt at DAL, and that is my feeling.. They will always have a reason to keep trying to whittle you DAL pilots down with the way they conduct business... They can keep your books in the red, while ASA, COMAIR and Songs are comfortably black.

Hope I made sense, canadflyau

 

[Rich Man]

Sorry.......

I know I'll regret this in the very near future.... but this is the kind of Flame Bait General Lee loves to bite...


Can't belive the General Lee doesn't have some "Wisdome" (enphasis on " " ) to share with us?


Sorry guys, I had to ask.......


Rich!

 

[Medeco]

I agree with the SASM and RASM perspective for the RJ.

I wonder if all these guys who think mainline guys think we are second rate pilots ever talk with mainline pilots face to face about these issues while deadheading or commuting or in the cafeteria?

My point being these message boards have a way of bringing the worst comments from both sides.

My experience is the mainline guys are respectful to me and I am to them, most of these folks worked hard for their position, and they seem to respect me in the same way.

I have had two Delta jumpseaters up front recently and they loved the RJ flight deck and were suprised at the work load of the plane and the old school ASA operations(no ACARS).

I think alot if these comments are actually my fellow ASA/Comair pilots who feel insecure about what they do and develop this perception in the mind.

Just be a professional and people will respect you.

"Yes , Candler 521 your parking at gate 24 Bravo, and the Captain and FO need to contact scheduling when you get in, have a great day!"

ohhhhh those hurt.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Re: Gotta agree with Super Ed

Fuel Costs make up a far greater percentage of CASM than Pilot Salaries, or of all labor costs for that matter.

That statement is not entirely correct. While fuel is usually slightly higher than pilot salaries, total labor costs (wages and benefits) are by far an airline's largest expense.

That being said, I want to see regional salaries come way up. The more they make, the less incentive mgt has to outsource all of our flying to them. However, with the recent behavior of many of the cmr pilots, I can see why some of our guys are hoping they share in the paid.

I have heard nothing of that sort from our mec, and I highly doubt they are advcating paycuts at DCI.

The 70-seater? That's a whole different story. If Delta wants more than 57 of them, they know who has to fly them!

 

[canadflyau]

" That statement is not entirely correct. While fuel is usually slightly higher than pilot salaries, total labor costs (wages and benefits) are by far an airline's largest expense."

Actually I am correct, but you are correct that neither make up the largest percentage of CASM.... I should have been more clear when I say "total labor costs" I mean frontline labor, the ones you can actually see and/or have contact with at the airport (the so called "little guy") that does the physical work that generates the revenue... not the labor that sits at the G.O. and makes no contact of anyform with the customer or directly with the product (i.e. HR, Marketing, Standards and Compliance, Safety, Quality Assurance, and the gobs of other suits and sweaters behind the scenes)

Its this simple, take a look at an hour.. a 50 seat SJ... lets say in 1 hr they can utilize 300NM.. in 1hr they pay the FO and Capt a combined $150/hr (including bennies) a cost of =.01 to CASM

Lets say the SJ burns about 2,000 lbs during 1hr with a cost of anywhere from (hedged or unhedged) $300-600/hr making up anywhere from .02-.04 to CASM, so fuel costs by my calcs are more expensive than a generous $150 the crew costs towards CASM.

I don't fly an SJ so my numbers are estimates, but that shows that if I am ballpark even with a super senior ASA crew, they are not a commanding part of the CASM.

As for the RASM lets say you operate at 65% load factor, thus 32.5 Seats are filled @ $60 per segment you have .13 RASM. FYI the CASM at JBLU-SWA is anywhere from 6.5-8.5, DAL casm is approx 8.8 and AMR is approx 8.7

 

[rjcap]

fdj,

The 70-seater? That's a whole different story. If Delta wants more than 57 of them, they know who has to fly them!

If AA files for chap 11 which it apparently will, then Leo will simply steer towards chap 11 and let the bankruptcy judge throw out any and all scope restrictions as well as a good portion of your compensation.

Delta pilots have very little say in what is about to transpire.

 

[DAL737FO]

RJCap,

Do you actually research this stuff or just overhear it and spout it off as the truth? Just because a company enters into Chapter 11 doesn't mean the contracts go out the window. I don't know if you are a Comair RJ Captain but since you have the industry leading pay on the Small jet side of the fence I wouldn't want the company to run to file chapter 11. You see CHQ flies the aircraft at a much reduced rate compared to you guys and if you don't think the Delta bean counters would go after that difference in chapter 11 then you are sadly mistaken.

Furloughed DAL737FO

 

[captainv]

By far the biggest adjustment coming from a corporate background has been getting used to every pilot from every pilot group walking around with an enormous chip on his shoulder, almost itching for a fight. Well, online that is. I guess that's the one place we can release all the frustrations caused by the uncertainty in the industry right now.

Perhaps I have an oversimplified view of the current situation. I'm sure i'll hear about it if i'm wrong. but let me take a stab at it...

Who decides what routes Comair/ASA/DCI contract carriers fly?
Delta...

Who decides how many RJs we buy, how many pilots we hire?
Delta...

Who decides how many DAL pilots to furlough?
Delta...

Who decides when to pull mainline off a route in favor of RJs?
Delta...

I mean, we are wholly-owned, right? Do the DAL guys really think they're sitting at home because of the actions of Comair/ASA management or its pilot group? Sometimes I just can't see why the real culprit doesn't get more of the blame....

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

CaptainV,

You are entirely correct that mgt deserves most of the blame for our situation, along with our short-sighted pilot group for allowing such outsourcing. Also, let's not forget the real culprits: some dead or soon to be dead muslims!

Believe me, there is MAJOR outcry from our pilot group about what mgt is doing. As a matter of fact, I don't ever remember hearing any of our pilots blame the pilots of DCI for any of this.

However, the rjdc is attempting to allow mgt to give away all of our flying to lower wage carriers, and we are understandably upset about that. Also, the cmr mec is actively trying to prevent the hiring of our furloughees (at the bottom of their list), and we are angry about that as well.

I think, despite what some say, that we have very legitamate reasons to be upset at the rjdc and the cmr pilot group, and it has nothing to do with misplaced blame or our egos. It has everything to do with their actions.

I hope this clears up some misconceptions re: the attitudes and motivations of our pilots. You may be happy to know that on the DALPA forums, the focus of 99% of the conversations is our mgt.