Yet another time-logging question (121 ops)

[I.P. Freley]

Sorry to ask a question that has probably been answered on here already, but half an hour of digging hasn't given me an answer. The following has always been a little sketchy to me... Any answers?

I'm the PIC on my airplane (Saab 340), do I log all the instrument approaches flown on my watch? (heretofore, I have not, I've only logged those I've performed myself)

Do I log all IMC time flown on my watch? (heretofore, I have, regardless of who is at the controls)

How about the same questions for the SIC in a 2-person-crew airplane?

Thanks for any input.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Anyone?

Beuller?

 

[vclean]

If I'm PF, I log it. If the FO is flying I don't.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Although 61.51 says that an ATP may log as PIC time all of the time he is acting a PIC on an operation requiring an ATP, there's no equivalent language in the instrument logging parts of 61.51 for an ATP logging instrument time (such as there is for CFIs) by the mere fact of being there, even in a command role.

So, my take is that an ATP is in no better shape that any "lesser" pilot when it comes to logging instrument time. And there's nothing in the rules that permits logging instrument time (other than for a CFI) by the mere fact of supervising.

Probably not a big deal on the actual IMC issue since, if you are an ATP, I doubt there are any FAA instrument requirements to worry about.

I've always viewed logging approaches as a subset of logging instrument time. If the rule says you're not entitled to log the instrument time, you can't log the approaches either.

 

[xjcaptain]

As PIC you log ALL actual time encountered. It's a condition of flight same as night. I assume you would log night even when the FO is flying right? As far as the approaches go, log only the approaches that you fly. Same as a CFI can't use his students approaches for his own personal currency. However as PIC under 121 ops you are alway current for IFR based on recurrent training, so technically you wouldn't HAVE to log any approaches flown. As an FO, instrument currency isn't even required. All refrences towared instrument currency in part 91/121 refer to being current to act as a PIC. The fo just has to be there.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Same as a CFI can't use his students approaches for his own personal currency.

That's the problem. There's a school of thought, including the FAA's own AFS-840, that says a CFI =can= use his students approaches for personal currency, so long as they are in IMC.

But that's another thread. Let's just say the issue is a bit controversial and not all that clear.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Who cares, your flying 121 and getting all your requirements every six months in the sim.