XO Jet

[skiandsurf]

So do you fly specificlly between certain cities only when repositioning / charter flights? I mean do you only reposition when you have a charter to fill it? Do you only fly between bases or certain cities? Am I making myself clear? I mean you must not fly to BFE North Dakota and fill a charter to get the plane out, so how does that work? Or do you simply charge the charter customer next in line the repo fee?

Thanks for the info.

I think what he is saying is ...

if a charter flight comes up from AUS to TEB and the closest plane is in PHX, that 3 hr charter flight, is now a 5 hr charter. The repo flight gets added to the charter flight. (these hrs are for easy explanation).

 

[Ultra Grump]

What T-Bone was saying, I think, was that a charter customer may pay for some, all, or often "all and then some" of a repositioning leg. (ie. the double dip) Thats how the company can legitimately claim 97 percent revenue legs. It's not that we never fly empty because we certainly do. However, charter quotes often include return to base empty leg costs. Often, we can get to where our next owner needs us in less flight time than we would have spent returning to base resulting in excess revenue to offset or pay for other non-compensated legs.

Sounds like fraud, and a lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

[gunfyter]

Sounds like fraud, and a lawsuit waiting to happen.

No

Sounds like a management company.

You own a plane and fly it 500 hrs a year. YOu let the management company charter it the other 700 hrs it flies every year .. reducing oour costs and providing income to the managment company off other people's assets.

Just like a bank uses the money you hve deposited by loaning it out to other people ... when you are not using your money ... instead of leaving it stored in the vault.

You cant do this with fractional owners because there are MANY owners per plne nd you have to do THEIR trips no matter what.

But with full ownership or even half shares ... there are only few trips that HAVE TO be done. You then pick and choose what charter trips you can do ... that also get your airplanes near to where you need them for the next owner trip.

 

[skiandsurf]

No

Sounds like a management company.

You own a plane and fly it 500 hrs a year. YOu let the management company charter it the other 700 hrs it flies every year .

But I think that the XOJet owners only get 200 hours a year. Which allows XOJet a lot of available charter time.

 

[brokeflyer]

I think what he is saying is ...

if a charter flight comes up from AUS to TEB and the closest plane is in PHX, that 3 hr charter flight, is now a 5 hr charter. The repo flight gets added to the charter flight. (these hrs are for easy explanation).

so it's a regular charter company. Thanks for clearing that up. I thought they were trying to enter the fractional market.

Hope they can do better than the 20,000 other charter operators out there.

 

[t-bone]

so it's a regular charter company. Thanks for clearing that up. I thought they were trying to enter the fractional market.

We do both. Our first priority is our program members, and the surplus time on the airplane is made available to the charter market. When all of our program members are using their airplanes, we raise our charter rates (simple supply and demand economics) as the charter availability goes down. On the days when our program flying is slow, we can lower rates and increase our outside charter availability. So instead of limiting our program members on peak demand days, we simply turn off the outside charter. This eliminates the need to contract with outside charter companies to provide supplemental uplift. When we need to get an airplane into position for a program flight, we can discount the repo leg all the way down to DOCs to the charter market, but sometimes we just have to eat that cost. Luckily, that doesn't happen very often.

A full owner gets 400 hours per year. The airplanes average 1200 hours per year, so there is 800 hours per year that we have to either Lease out or sell to the charter market.

For years now, companies have either been pure fractional, or straight charter. We are combining the virtues of both. For the pilots, it really doesn't matter who we are flying. Everything is done under part 135, and we treat everyone as if they were an owner. It's all the same to us.

 

[gunfyter]

It would be like this:

I park my BMW at the airport 18 days per month it just sits there,

Instead, all these days I am away, I let Hertz rent out my car. They make money do the maintenance and when i return from my trip ... deliver my car to the FBO and i drive home.

In the XO profile ... they have solved they scheduling problem which everyone knows is the weak link in fractional... By changing the problem...

They don't have to schedule 10 owners per plane. Just 4. Owners presumably don't get sold off during Christmas and Thanksgiving or spring break. They just dont do any charter flights then.

 

[landlover]

Sounds like fraud, and a lawsuit waiting to happen.

just about every on-demand cargo comapny does this at some point. some do it on every trip(like the one i work for). its very simple, you don't like the price. go shop elsewhere.

 

[NJA Capt]

Instead, all these days I am away, I let Hertz rent out my car. They make money do the maintenance and when i return from my trip ... deliver my car to the FBO and i drive home.

And you would permit them to use your car for free??? You buy the car and they get the profits....I don't think so.

This is why NeJets does not do outside charter trips. The planes belong to the owners, if NJA was to use "their" plane, they would expect NJA to pay them a percentage of the earnings. It seems dishonest to expect someone to "buy you a plane" and then you don't give the "owners" a percentage of your charter revenue. I believe as XO grows and the participants pay more attention to this detail, they will not be as interested or they will demand their share of the charter revenue.

Interesting that XO only allots 400 hrs/yr to owners in comparison to NetJet's 800/yr to full owners. It appears that charter is the majority of the business, otherwise the owners' usage would be greater than 50%.

 

[Diesel]

Trip from TEB to PBI is a charter, then a pickup at PBI back to TEB for an XO owner.

Charter trip shows up late, shocking i know.

Not just late but a couple of hours late.

What does XO jet ditch the charter? Ditch the owner?

Please don't tell me they send another XO jet plane there this isn't enough of them, yet.

So who gets screwed the owner or the charter?