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Xjt or Pinnacle?
- Thread starter scoot
- Start date
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PCL Flt-ops
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Mel Sharples
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PCL Flt-ops... unless I'm missing the sarcasm (and I may be, trust me) why would you call your own airline "some crappy regional"?
Like I said, I may have missed something but I don't think it is out of the question that most of us are facing retiring at a regional vs. retiring at a major. I hope things will turn around but with more and more flying going to regionals and the majors finances being so poor, it doesn't look very bright (unless you are very young). ExpressJet seems like a pretty good company and I would same the same for Pinnacle (unless you would beg to differ). Would it be my choice to retire at a regional? Hell no. Does it look like that may be my reality? Hell yes. I think that's all scoot was trying to say.
I hope I'm missing something, though.
Just my $.02 worth.
Like I said, I may have missed something but I don't think it is out of the question that most of us are facing retiring at a regional vs. retiring at a major. I hope things will turn around but with more and more flying going to regionals and the majors finances being so poor, it doesn't look very bright (unless you are very young). ExpressJet seems like a pretty good company and I would same the same for Pinnacle (unless you would beg to differ). Would it be my choice to retire at a regional? Hell no. Does it look like that may be my reality? Hell yes. I think that's all scoot was trying to say.
I hope I'm missing something, though.
Just my $.02 worth.
Mel:
You're right, most regional pilots face the possibility of retiring from a regional unfortunately. However, some regionals are retirement material, others are not.
Air Whisky, Comair, and CoEx are regionals that you could retire from. You could actually have a decent quality of life after a while and make decent money. Comair even has a pretty good retirement plan.
None of that is true about Pinnacle though. The quality of life is terrible (understaffed, poor work rules, unpredictable schedules, etc...) and the pay leaves much to be desired. The retirement plan consists of a 401k that the company barely makes a matching contribution towards (25% of the first 5% contributed by the pilot). Pinnacle is not an airline to retire from.
You're right, most regional pilots face the possibility of retiring from a regional unfortunately. However, some regionals are retirement material, others are not.
Air Whisky, Comair, and CoEx are regionals that you could retire from. You could actually have a decent quality of life after a while and make decent money. Comair even has a pretty good retirement plan.
None of that is true about Pinnacle though. The quality of life is terrible (understaffed, poor work rules, unpredictable schedules, etc...) and the pay leaves much to be desired. The retirement plan consists of a 401k that the company barely makes a matching contribution towards (25% of the first 5% contributed by the pilot). Pinnacle is not an airline to retire from.
Stuka Luva
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PCL Flt-ops
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Lear70
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Now THAT'S some funny shiznit! :lol: As someone else on our board said, "Fo Shizzle my Nizzle!"
You forgot to mention at Pinnacle:
Crew Schedulers who knowingly push crews to break FAR 121 regs.
Duty days scheduled with 7 to 8 legs a day, 13:58 minutes of duty, 7:59 of flight time (in the winter in Detroit... yeah, right).
Regularly going over 8 hours and not getting compensatory rest because the company and their POI interprets "legal to start, legal to finish" to apply to THE ENTIRE TRIP, not just each individual day.
Deliberate and Intentional tactics by management to WILLFULLY violate the pilot contract (three memos and/or alert bulletins in the last 90 days).
Contract negotiations that start later this year and promise to result in even MORE of these management tactics.
The majority of pilots with more than 1000 PIC on the CRJ trying desperately to go ANYWHERE with equal or better pay and better quality of life. H*ll, two of our Captains just bid back to F/O to get more days off and drop as much time as possible and work outside of aviation just to get away from this place for a while.
Well, maybe the last one will result in quick upgrades for some...
Good luck to you though, don't know how things are at XJT, but if their quality of life is better, I'd say JUMP!
You forgot to mention at Pinnacle:
Crew Schedulers who knowingly push crews to break FAR 121 regs.
Duty days scheduled with 7 to 8 legs a day, 13:58 minutes of duty, 7:59 of flight time (in the winter in Detroit... yeah, right).
Regularly going over 8 hours and not getting compensatory rest because the company and their POI interprets "legal to start, legal to finish" to apply to THE ENTIRE TRIP, not just each individual day.
Deliberate and Intentional tactics by management to WILLFULLY violate the pilot contract (three memos and/or alert bulletins in the last 90 days).
Contract negotiations that start later this year and promise to result in even MORE of these management tactics.
The majority of pilots with more than 1000 PIC on the CRJ trying desperately to go ANYWHERE with equal or better pay and better quality of life. H*ll, two of our Captains just bid back to F/O to get more days off and drop as much time as possible and work outside of aviation just to get away from this place for a while.
Well, maybe the last one will result in quick upgrades for some...
Good luck to you though, don't know how things are at XJT, but if their quality of life is better, I'd say JUMP!
justmeinmsp
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DoinTime
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Yes, things at PNCL are pretty lame right now but the same can be said for all of the companies you have listed at one point in time or another. Have you ever looked at Comair's last contract? CoEx's current contract? Our current contract was negotiated under the immediate threat of liquidation and its depth and quality shows that.
Our next contract will not reflect our current one unless guys like you are convinced that PNCL will always be a crappy place to work and vote for a substandard deal. From my perspective on the many people I know from Mesa this is the prevailing attitude there and their contract shows it.
DoinTime:
Actually, I'm the last guy that would ever vote for a substandard contract. I've already decided that I'll vote no on any TA that isn't at least Comair +5%. It's time for somebody to raise the bar again. Hopefully ASA or XJT will be able to. We'll just have to wait and see and provide any support we can when the time comes.
However, I don't believe that our pilot group as a whole has the balls to stand up for what is right (a fair contract) and strike when necessary. For example, when we had Captains downgraded to FOs last year we still had captains picking up open time! That certainly doesn't show unity and solidarity. Unfortunately, I think this lack of solidarity will rear its ugly head again come time to vote down a bad TA and possibly strike.
The pilots at Comair only have a good contract because they had the unity and courage to strike when it became necessary. The held strong for 89 days and years later they still have the industry leading contract. That is what solidarity will bring you. Unfortunately, I don't believe our pilot group has that solidarity and courage. I hope I'm wrong.
Actually, I'm the last guy that would ever vote for a substandard contract. I've already decided that I'll vote no on any TA that isn't at least Comair +5%. It's time for somebody to raise the bar again. Hopefully ASA or XJT will be able to. We'll just have to wait and see and provide any support we can when the time comes.
However, I don't believe that our pilot group as a whole has the balls to stand up for what is right (a fair contract) and strike when necessary. For example, when we had Captains downgraded to FOs last year we still had captains picking up open time! That certainly doesn't show unity and solidarity. Unfortunately, I think this lack of solidarity will rear its ugly head again come time to vote down a bad TA and possibly strike.
The pilots at Comair only have a good contract because they had the unity and courage to strike when it became necessary. The held strong for 89 days and years later they still have the industry leading contract. That is what solidarity will bring you. Unfortunately, I don't believe our pilot group has that solidarity and courage. I hope I'm wrong.
PCL Flt-ops
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another cfii
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PCL Flt-ops said:
Don't get me wrong. I have no desire to retire from a regional. ANY regional. But for the guys that are too old to wait for a major to start hiring again, there are several regionals that have much better conditions for preparing for retirement than PCL. It's practically impossible to prepare a retirement nestegg here with the low pay and almost non-existent company match.
Well, I for one do not care if Pinnacle goes out of business because mngmt doesn't want to give us what we deserve. I'll just pick up and move to another regional. Even if that means working at Home Depot in the mean-time. Our mngmt needs to understand that they have put us through so much that we have nothing to lose when it comes to a strike. I hope others feel the same way.....and mean it.....because I WILL NOT work under the same BS that this company has been dishing out on the next contract. I say shut her down and let Trenary and all the other blowhards in Memphis try and find another job!! Just my two cents.
And now for the rest of the story...
When we assume things it can make an a$$ out of you and me.
Scoot is a two timer, and he can happily say "I did it my way". As a young pilot he worked his way up the usual route; CFI, bank checks, small package freight, charter, commuter, etc., but his family business needed him badly so he quit flying.
As a businessman he was successful enough to retire early and to get back into the air and fly. He feels very lucky. <<>>
I know it is frustrating to be so underpaid for what you do. We need to work together to change that.
Pcl,
When you are tired and unhappy in this business you are less safe. It's not your fault. Stand up for yourself. Take a break. Quit if you must . You can come back. I did.
And now you know the rest of the story...
When we assume things it can make an a$$ out of you and me.
Scoot is a two timer, and he can happily say "I did it my way". As a young pilot he worked his way up the usual route; CFI, bank checks, small package freight, charter, commuter, etc., but his family business needed him badly so he quit flying.
As a businessman he was successful enough to retire early and to get back into the air and fly. He feels very lucky. <<>>
I know it is frustrating to be so underpaid for what you do. We need to work together to change that.
Pcl,
When you are tired and unhappy in this business you are less safe. It's not your fault. Stand up for yourself. Take a break. Quit if you must . You can come back. I did.
And now you know the rest of the story...
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