XJT or Comair

[slipstream]

I know there's another thread comparing AWAC to XJT going right now, but I have offers from XJT and Comair, so I thought I'd solicit the *cough* expert advice to be had on this board

After reading that thread I'm leaning towards XJT right now, but as of now, Comair has much better pay, shorter reserve time, and I believe their benefits are better. (Please correct me if I'm wrong) I know all that could change if Delta yanks their flying and decides to chop em off or sell em off.

XJT has a quicker upgrade, not in bankruptcy and more stable right now but nevertheless please offer up any sincere advice in case I've missed anything.

I'm transitioning from Pt. 135 flying to 121 so I don't claim to know much about the regionals. I'll admit I was a bit shocked that XJT expects me to cough up $600 out of my pocket for uniforms and calculates vacation time at only 8 hours per month or something. Aside from those two nettlesome things, XJT seems to be a great operation. Comair was also impressive, I just don't wanna get furloughed right after IOE or even before.

 

[General Lee]

XJT.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Turtlesfly]

A piece of advice: Come into this job expecting nothing. No days off. No money. No vacation. You have to pay for hotels and uniforms and charts and parking passes and everything. You will be in debt forever and your wives/lovers will leave you.

Then, everyday will either be a pleasent surprise because you discovered that the airline did pay for your airport parking or even for the flying you did that day . . . and the worst that can happen is when you have a really sH!tty day, it'll just be neutral in your mind because it matched your expectations. That way you never have a bad day at work, and it will prevent you from going mad.

As an example, go to Mesaba and you can have 10 days off a month now.

But to answer your question, everything you mentioned - pay and benefits and CPA agreements - are all here today, gone tomorrow - don't base it on that alone. We don't know what's happening at XJT tomorrow.

 

[Terrain Terrain]

skywest or republic

 

[Gofish]

What about PSA. Nothing but green pastures here.

Far as the eye can see!

 

[ERJFO]

skywest or republic

Maybe he has the self respect to desire a union or more than a single pay scale for diffrent equipment?

(Maybe he dosen't but I wanted to give him the bennifit of the doubt.)

 

[TGT]

At XJT, you get one week of vacation a year (Mon-Sun). Then any trip that touches that week is dropped. If you plan it right, your week of vacation turns to about 17 days off while receiving your min. guarantee of 75 hrs.

 

[slipstream]

Sooooooooo, looks like one yay for XJT, and a whole lot of reality check about the airline industry.

And yes, I would prefer a union carrier with payscales commensurate to the equipment I'm flying.

 

[BeachBummer]

At XJT, you get one week of vacation a year (Mon-Sun). Then any trip that touches that week is dropped. If you plan it right, your week of vacation turns to about 17 days off while receiving your min. guarantee of 75 hrs.

Thats if you have some bidding horsepower, and are hired early enough in the year to have 7 days for the next years vacation. Otherwise.... refer to the above no days off and wives leaving!

 

[Steve]

Sooooooooo, looks like one yay for XJT, and a whole lot of reality check about the airline industry.

And yes, I would prefer a union carrier with payscales commensurate to the equipment I'm flying.

Are you with ACC?

 

[captjim]

Comair, XJT is going under January 30! You heard it here first!

 

[Master Shake]

You think so? Stay tuned for Nov. 8th. Starting my own rumor here, but could this be our new logo:
http://expressjetservices.com/images/logo.gif

BTW - XJT won't be disappointing you. Comair, probably. Uniform can be payroll deducted at $20 per paycheck.

 

[upndsky]

A few things about your initial post. BTW, I work for XJT, but I also have the highest respect for CMR pilots and their company.

1. You say pay is much better at CMR, but don't look at the airlinepilotcentral.com numbers alone. CMR has a longevity freeze in place, while XJT doesn't. I also believe CMR may take a pay cut if the FAs contract is enforced (can someone at CMR confirm this?).

Neither should you look at hourly rates alone. The key is not what you are paid but how you are paid. While our hourly rates may appear lower than CMRs, our contract contains a lot of "soft" time and the ability to make overs. These are very important things to consider. I would say that XJT's current work rules are among the best in the regional business.

2. Vacation time is calculated to give you 2 weeks for a full year of service. After 5 or 6 years (can't remember) it goes to 3 weeks. This is par for the industry and I'm sure the same at CMR.

3. I'm not sure where $600 comes from, but I only spent about $350 on uniforms and had it payroll deducted. I don't know about CMR, but we are not the exception when it comes to having to pay for uniforms. This shouldn't be a factor in your decision making.

4. By benefits, I assume you mean health, dental, retirement, etc. Don't know about CMR's, but I would say that ours are pretty good. We have 401K matching, plus a pretty good health and dental plan. It could be a lot worse.

Both airlines are going through a tough time right now, but I would say that CMR's position is more precarious, which is very unfortunate because they have always been a solid pilot group. Reserve at XJT shouldn't be too long since we're losing about 40 pilots a month, mostly to Continental.

So my vote would be for XJT. Good luck.

 

[slipstream]

Thanks a lot for your insights, all of you.

upndsky, I appreciate the point by point answer, that's exactly what I was hoping for when I posted. And I'm sure captjim is being facetious, from what I've seen Comair is sadly more likely to go under by the New Year, not XJT. I just wish Delta would declare its intentions now and that would make my decision very easy, it'd be a no-brainer.

I used to be a freightdog on the Shorts, small company in the South. Heard nothing but good things about both companies until recently, but with the new Delta RFP sounds like Comair could go either way.

Makes no sense to me why Comair has to bid for their flying and fight for their lives when they're wholly owned, does American Eagle have to do the same with AA and bid for the flying periodically?

Actually my buddy at Comair who recommended me would probably excommunicate me if I chose XJT, lol, but wish he didn't take things so personally.

The lady in HR during the interview presentation is the one who said $600 for uniforms, I thought that was a bit pricey. If it's half that and payroll deductible then it's not so bad.

One of these days you have to explain soft time and make overs, I thought only celebs and reality TV ppl did that

 

[Superpilot92]

Thanks a lot for your insights, all of you.

upndsky, I appreciate the point by point answer, that's exactly what I was hoping for when I posted. And I'm sure captjim is being facetious, from what I've seen Comair is sadly more likely to go under by the New Year, not XJT. I just wish Delta would declare its intentions now and that would make my decision very easy, it'd be a no-brainer.

I used to be a freightdog on the Shorts, small company in the South. Heard nothing but good things about both companies until recently, but with the new Delta RFP sounds like Comair could go either way.

Makes no sense to me why Comair has to bid for their flying and fight for their lives when they're wholly owned, does American Eagle have to do the same with AA and bid for the flying periodically?

Actually my buddy at Comair who recommended me would probably excommunicate me if I chose XJT, lol, but wish he didn't take things so personally.

The lady in HR during the interview presentation is the one who said $600 for uniforms, I thought that was a bit pricey. If it's half that and payroll deductible then it's not so bad.

One of these days you have to explain soft time and make overs, I thought only celebs and reality TV ppl did that

The uniform price is what ever you want it to be really. I bought most of my uniform at other stores. I chose to buy a blazer, trenchcoat a few shirts and i think a zip up tie from them and that was it. I dont remember the exact total for it all because it was payroll deducted but it wasnt 600. Some people may pay that much only if they bought the leather jacket. that thing was around 300 i think. I didnt get it. Good luck on your decisions.

 

[Superpilot92]

Comair, XJT is going under January 30! You heard it here first!

uke:CaptJim

 

[rjacobs]

Uniforms are only what you buy and they are 10 bucks a month. I bought one pair of pants and the leather jacket so I was out about 420 bucks or so. One guy in my class bought like 1500+ bucks worth of everything he could. If it was on the order sheet he bought one or five, plus the flight kit and binders those guys sell so. Soft time is things like, if you have a 30+ hour layover, you get paid 3.75 hours for the 24 hours of sit time. Redflag pay for trips picked up on days off is 150% only if the trips are redflaged. Stuff like that is soft time. On time bonus, fuel savings, profit sharing, good 401K match-while not soft time also is something I dont think CMR has. Clean airplanes that smell decent. Not in bankruptcy. I can name more if you want me to on why to come to XJT. Also I dont think CMR even bid on their own flying because they said they wouldnt be competitive for the bid unless they got the FA contract worked out, am I correct here?

 

[slipstream]

Thanks for clearing that up. In that case I'd probably only need a blazer, hat and epaulets, maybe the leather jacket if I wanna really go for the airline pilot image...

At the interview they also said the upgrade time is now at 3 years, you think this is trending upwards or should come back down again? I'm really hoping to hear news from both XJT and CMR in the next few days, with Delta's RFP and XJT's plan for the remaining 50 planes or so because they said only 10 are going to the corporate operation.

Just hope I get IAH, or possibly EWR as a distant second

 

[SMOE]

Thanks for clearing that up. In that case I'd probably only need a blazer, hat and epaulets, maybe the leather jacket if I wanna really go for the airline pilot image...

At the interview they also said the upgrade time is now at 3 years, you think this is trending upwards or should come back down again? I'm really hoping to hear news from both XJT and CMR in the next few days, with Delta's RFP and XJT's plan for the remaining 50 planes or so because they said only 10 are going to the corporate operation.

Just hope I get IAH, or possibly EWR as a distant second

Upgrade has been holding at two years since the beginning of this year. IAH is now the jr base. Ask and ye shall receive...

 

[rattler]

I have worked for ExpressJet for the last several years. I can't tell you a lot about how it is to work for Comair, but I can tell you they have gained a lot of respect from there piers in this industry. With a high turn over rate at the regional level too many people forget the Comair strike, and how they set the bar at a high level for the rest of us to achieve. Sadly, this industry could not support their achievements and we are in the mess we see today.

At ExpressJet our contract isn't anywhere close to what Comair had for $/hour, but I think the language is probably the best in this segment of our industry. Most of it is even better than CAL's.

I am not sure what the company gives new hires for uniforms, but they do reimburse up to $125 a year. As others have stated, buy what you want, not what the CINTAS salesman says you need! Also consider looking elsewhere for uniform options. (example CINTAS pants $70, JC Pennys pants $25... and they look exactly the same).

QOL. I have to say it's pretty good. It could be better, but I am very happy. The way our monthly schedules are built gives us several opportunities to get the days off we desire. After initial lines are built and awarded, we have a 24 hour window (Initial line Improvement Window) to trade trips, add pay value, increase days off...etc. What ever you want to do. (Disclaimer: The competition is fierce! Get a fast computer). After the window closes and reserve relief lines are built a second window opens (Secondary line Improvement Window). This window remains open all month for trip trades. We also have additional language that allows whats called "bad day worse day trading" which will allow you to drop flying on a day with bad coverage if you pick up a day with worse coverage. For example, I haven't worked a Holiday since I started holding a line. So what does all this mean? Well I am a junior line holder and take 14-15 days off a month, I never work holidays or weekends. I do work an occasional Saturday, but it's my choice to do so, not the companies.

Since you will not hold a line right away, I tell you what I can about reserve. 11 days off in a 30 day month. 12 days off in a 31 day month. The top 10% of the reserve lines are considered "long call" and have a 12 hour call out period. Some commuters sit reserve at home in another state. If you fly more than 71.25 hours as a reserve, the company must 1) release you for the remainder of your schedule. or 2) Pay you a minimum of 3.75 for every day of duty remaining on your schedule. (Example 5 days left =18.75 hours plus 75 [min guarantee] = 93.75 guarantee as a reserve.

Vacation. Has already been addressed, but is the best in the industry. Again much better than CALs. 7 days of vacation can easily become 17 or more depending on your line.

Pay. As I said before our pay rates are OK, not great. Pretty much industry standard. But our work rules make the difference. Our contract includes raises for the next two years and the company wants to extend the current contract for an additional 2 years. I believe if it passes a 5th year CA will be around 75/hour (2009), currently its $65. For example I generally get paid an average of 110 hours a month. I fly 90 hours or so. For the year thats 1320 paid hours. Actual flight hours are much less due to soft time, vacation, the occasional sick call, PC's, recurrent ground school, etc. If you add in per diem, profit sharing and 401K match that can be a very nice salary for a CA. My example is probably a higher than others because I spend a lot of down time trying to trip trade to improve my productivity. But the way I see it, if I'm at work, I might as well work as much as possible so I can earn extra days off.

I just wanted to try to shine some light on what it is really like at XJT. It is hard to look at Pilotpay.com and see any difference in regionals, but believe me the little things that you don't see make all the difference in the world.

I hope your friend gave you some in depth information on what you can expect at ComAir so you can make an educated decision. Regardless of what the future holds for either company, both are good companies with great reputations. Good luck with your hard choice.

 

[rjacobs]

Yea upgrades are at like 19 months I think is the junior guy right now. The 69 airplanes thing, they've got something for them. 25 are going to mexico, that is almost a sure thing, but im sure were charging them out the ass, and training their crews, and some of our people with dual citizenship will be flying them full time and others into and out of mexico(I wouldnt want to be a scheduler as the setup that has been floating around sounds really damn confusing). As for the remaining 44 XR's, theve got something for them because for the corporate operation they are buying 10 NEW XR's, NOT using existing XR's. HMMM, wonder why that is. I talked to Ream and Nides in the training center the other day, and while they wouldnt let any details go they both had big ******************** eating grins on thier faces the whole time.

 

[JungleJett]

I will sell you my senority number (low 500's) for say.......25K.

Three weeks vacation, seven year CA pay (about to be 8), good line holder....I will even throw in a complete set of up to date Jepps, CFM and FOM!

ok...30K...

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

I will sell you my senority number (low 500's) for say.......25K.

Three weeks vacation, seven year CA pay (about to be 8), good line holder....I will even throw in a complete set of up to date Jepps, CFM and FOM!

ok...30K...

Man! If I knew seniority numbers were up for auction I would not have given mine up two days ago!

I would have settled for 20K. (lowering the bar)

 

[Apache 5]

I work for XJT too, and I'd have to say that rattler's post just about sums it up as well as anything. I couldnt be happier here- had the choice between a couple of 135/corporate gigs and XJT and I am so glad that I chose to "live the dream as an airline pilot"... Seriously though, like others have said, our pay is decent, management treats us right and is on the lookout for our best interests (come on- 44XRs to go!), and our work rules are good and going to get a little better assuming the contract extension passes. I can only hold 4 days in IAH, but with trading and line improvement, havent done a 4 day in several months...also, rarely work weekends- I work alot, but when I want to, not when the company says so. Turkey day next month is of course the exception, oh well, margaritas in mexico instead of cornbread and stuffing.

Come on over to XJT and dont let the Cintas people screw you- get 2 pairs of pants, maybe 2 shirts, and a blazer. Then, after you discover whats out there- go somewhere else for good fitting shirts, etc. Please dont buy the leather jacket either- its not necessary, especially on 1st yr fo pay.

Buena suerte.

 

[Superpilot92]

Yea upgrades are at like 19 months I think is the junior guy right now. The 69 airplanes thing, they've got something for them. 25 are going to mexico, that is almost a sure thing, but im sure were charging them out the ass, and training their crews, and some of our people with dual citizenship will be flying them full time and others into and out of mexico(I wouldnt want to be a scheduler as the setup that has been floating around sounds really dang confusing). As for the remaining 44 XR's, theve got something for them because for the corporate operation they are buying 10 NEW XR's, NOT using existing XR's. HMMM, wonder why that is. I talked to Ream and Nides in the training center the other day, and while they wouldnt let any details go they both had big ******************** eating grins on thier faces the whole time.

I will just clarify this its not 19 months because thats where i am and i havent upgraded yet but its getting close :beer:. Its right at 2 years from newhire to in upgrade class. That might go down depending on how many senior FOs stay fos for the charter pay and or senior schedules.

 

[JungleJett]

I work for XJT too, and I'd have to say that rattler's post just about sums it up as well as anything. I couldnt be happier here- had the choice between a couple of 135/corporate gigs and XJT and I am so glad that I chose to "live the dream as an airline pilot"... Seriously though, like others have said, our pay is decent, management treats us right and is on the lookout for our best interests (come on- 44XRs to go!), and our work rules are good and going to get a little better assuming the contract extension passes. I can only hold 4 days in IAH, but with trading and line improvement, havent done a 4 day in several months...also, rarely work weekends- I work alot, but when I want to, not when the company says so. Turkey day next month is of course the exception, oh well, margaritas in mexico instead of cornbread and stuffing.

Come on over to XJT and dont let the Cintas people screw you- get 2 pairs of pants, maybe 2 shirts, and a blazer. Then, after you discover whats out there- go somewhere else for good fitting shirts, etc. Please dont buy the leather jacket either- its not necessary, especially on 1st yr fo pay.

Buena suerte.

Yeah don't buy the leather jacket...that is if you want to carry another jacket with you on those freezing cold Canada overnights. You can pull the name tag off and wear it out to dinner or whatever...

I do not regret buying it!

 

[slipstream]

Wow, thanx a bunch Rattler, Apache, RJacobs and SP92, if you guys r the sorts of colleagues I have to look forward to then I'm definitely leaning towards XJT. And I know and respect a lot of CMR pilots but it speaks volumes that most of these replies are by XJT pilots, sounds like Comair guys sadly have their hands full and their futures seem to very much be in question right now.

Hopefully I'll PM some of you when I have a class date and get to IAH, I'd like to meet y'all and thank you in person.

 

[N813CA]

slipstream vbmenu_register("postmenu_1155419", true);

I went from Piedmont to Comair 4 years ago. We are having a hard time but I am also moving 50+ senority a month because captains are leaving. Comair is a great company to work for and I hope that we will continue to be a great company to work for. Don't sell us out short yet!!!!

 

[Master Shake]

I don't think any of my "brothers" were trying to sell you guys short, more like trying to illustrate what kind of lifestyle we have here and what our future prospects are. Unfortunately, the good people at ComAir have been dealt a nasty hand. That said, it is safe to say that all of us are pulling for you guys.

 

[Hosed COEX]

Yea upgrades are at like 19 months I think is the junior guy right now. The 69 airplanes thing, they've got something for them. 25 are going to mexico, that is almost a sure thing, but im sure were charging them out the ass, and training their crews, and some of our people with dual citizenship will be flying them full time and others into and out of mexico(I wouldnt want to be a scheduler as the setup that has been floating around sounds really dang confusing). As for the remaining 44 XR's, theve got something for them because for the corporate operation they are buying 10 NEW XR's, NOT using existing XR's. HMMM, wonder why that is. I talked to Ream and Nides in the training center the other day, and while they wouldnt let any details go they both had big ******************** eating grins on thier faces the whole time.

Just a correction here. The 10 XR's for charter work ARE the existing planes - we are not buying new ones. There was a story in the press that incorrectly said we were buying the planes, when in fact all we are doing is making some improvements to the 10 for charter work (satellite radio, better seats, new paint etc...)