XJT or CHQ

[iflysky]

Got offered a job at both, but can not make up my mind which one to go to.
XJT is attractive because of a good contract and QOL, but CHQ because of upgrade and E-170.

What do you guys/gals think ????

 

[LJDRVR]

Go with the stronger company. Upgrade time is no longer much of a valid arguement for making a career descision. Things change, today's fast upgrade is tomorrow's stagnation. You're better off at a company where you can spend your career if need be. Even if you do upgrade faster, where are you going to be competetive with your minimal experience?

Wouldn't you rather be at XJT if all of these 50-seat airlines for sale start getting purchased by the few companies with the financial means to do so?

CHQ is a good company. The people are probably great, and I'm sure the flying is fun. XJT is better. Make an effort to talk to some folks at both and you'll know what's best for your situation.

 

[COEX-FO]

Got offered a job at both, but can not make up my mind which one to go to.
XJT is attractive because of a good contract and QOL, but CHQ because of upgrade and E-170.

What do you guys/gals think ????

Most of us with multiple job offers already know deep down which airline is best. Follow your instincts and you usually won;t go wrong. What other opinions are will be from their perspective, not yours.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Not this one again. Just do a search dude....I think these two have been compared like 937498375498 times on here already.

 

[711-24-7]

I wish, I say that again I wish I had an offer from CHQ. That's all I have to say.

 

[ATRedneck]

There is most likely going to be some consolidation in the small jet industry. How your seniority would be affected is something to think about.

One airline's pilots are represented by ALPA, the other by the Teamsters (I think.) ALPA's merger policy is pretty cut-and-dried. It's spelled out what'll happen if you're at the buying airline, or at the bought airline, whether the acquired carrier has ALPA on property or not.

(Don't axe me for specifics though... BlueDevAv8r, I think this is a question for you!)

Chaneequa has been floated on the rumor mill more than once about being bought, as well as them buying someone else. If they're bought out, it would likely be by an ALPA carrier.

Just something to think about.

 

[iflysky]

Thanks for the replies guys. My gut tells me XJT, but with the new Delta development could that possibly mean more (I mean like REALLY more) flying for CHQ ???

 

[Truckdriver]

XJT. With preferential interviews at CAL (The only major that looks like it will be doing any hiring in the next year or two) XJT will actually have movement without growth. Most regional airlines are only getting movement because of growth. At XJT we are going to have both which means lots of movement in the next year or two. Actually almost all guys hired before Sep 01 will probably be captains by the end of 05 meaning guys that were hired in 03 will be upgrading. This will put upgrade times at XJT at around 2-3 years. If XJT scores another contract with a new carrier, expect those upgrade times to drop down to around 2 years. You may actually upgrade fairly quick at XJT. Also, by Dec 05 we will equal Comair on hourly pay rates putting us out in front as far as pay. Add all the other sweet stuff ALPA scored us on our contract and it seems like it would be an easy decision if it were me.

Hey, don't go to CHQ just because they have 170's. After about 3 months online it turns into a job that pays the bills. It doesn't matter if your flying a 145 or a 170, it's all about how much you work, how much you get paid, and how the QOL is. You'll actually make more money at XJT flying a 145. Don't fall for the bigger aircraft scam.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Hey, don't go to CHQ just because they have 170's. After about 3 months online it turns into a job that pays the bills. It doesn't matter if your flying a 145 or a 170, it's all about how much you work, how much you get paid, and how the QOL is. You'll actually make more money at XJT flying a 145. Don't fall for the bigger aircraft scam.

Very good point.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

I agree. This post has been discussed a lot. Just do a search about XJT and CHQ and you will find the answers your looking for. BOTH companies are great to work for. Later


Man Plans and God Laughs

 

[nimtz]

I've been at XJet for 4.5 years. I am not an optimist towards this company's future especially when it comes to upgrade. Yeah CAL has lip service about pref interviews, but they won't even take our guys who have a letter saying they have been hired at Continental Airlines. I don't know what the right choice is right now, but CHQ having a 70 seat program up and running is a huge advantage. The 50 seat market is absolutely tapped so don't expect future growth here. In other words CHQ is much better positioned if a big concern is being an FO for 5 years.

This isn't a bad company. We have the best route structure and overnights of any regional and the pay is about as good as you can do. That also means alot of senior guys in their 30's are getting comfortable here. There are even guys who had rights to go to Continental next month, but turned it down. I would weigh heavily on what Xjet will do in Jan 2007 when Continental can start finding other feed. In the end you'll never know if you made the right pick until many years from now.

 

[LegacyIIDriver]

XJT by a nose... CHQ has codeshares with every soon-to-be-bankrupt airline in the United States. CHQ also has a track record of firing probationary employees out of seniority... Not a good place to be on the bottom rung of the seniority list.

 

[SEFlyer]

but CHQ having a 70 seat program up and running is a huge advantage.

Go ahead, fly a 70 seater for 50 seat wages.

 

[dvmthwsvan]

Go ahead, fly a 70 seater for 50 seat wages

Or what if they are one step above us all and are actually flying 50 seaters for 70 seat wages. Nice!

 

[captjim]

I've been at XJT for 6.5 years, and am very glad I'm here as compared to any other small jet carrier. There are a lot of guys that can find any little thing to bitch about, they are everywhere. I remember pre911 guys were bitching at United and Delta making wages that doctors could only dream about. I'd say ignor the ones that bitch, they don't know how good they have it. Like most are saying, go with your gut, pick the one you think is best. Take a look on the yahoo financial boards and see what they look like. Look at www.airlinepilotpay.com. Whatever choice you make, make it and don't look back.

 

[91100 100 set]

Most of us with multiple job offers already know deep down which airline is best. Follow your instincts and you usually won;t go wrong.

No offense, but I did just that 5 1/2 years ago. And here I am, a probationary FO at CHQ with 4000 hours of Dash-8 time.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Does CHQ have any contracts coming up for re-negotiation anytime soon?

 

[nimtz]

Go ahead, fly a 70 seater for 50 seat wages.

Not even worth discussing. Mesa and Skywest destroyed any hope of Comair like pay for the 70's back in 2003. Nevertheless I wouldn't weigh that as a consideration in which airline to chose. Trust me if Xjet were to get 70's we would be lucky to get a dollar overide to fly the thing.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Got offered a job at both, but can not make up my mind which one to go to.
XJT is attractive because of a good contract and QOL, but CHQ because of upgrade and E-170.

What do you guys/gals think ????

Here is a re-print of a post I made on a similiar thread a few months ago.

-Neal

Both are good companies and will treat you well. I would not venture to say that XJT is a much better company all around, but a better company in some areas. XJT's new contract is better than CHQ in terms of pay, and are equal in regards to work rules. I would say XJT is a safer bet because of Continental's financial situation, which isnt all that great but better than CHQ's partners. CHQ has treated me very well for the past year, but if I had to do it over again I would pick XJT just for the stability.

Just my 2 cents...

As one person has said on here, if someone is comparing the 2 purely on upgrade potential, they might want to go to CHQ, as they are much smaller than us and as such, require fewer deliveries to double the fleet size. With that said, XJT will lose roughly 450 pilots over the next 12-18 months. That is about 20% of our seniority list. These pilots are the remaining furloughed CAL pilots, the "113" group, and then the 200 or so pilots who have commitment letters from CAL. On top of that, we are also going to need another 150 captains or so for our last airframe deliveries. So we are looking at another 600 captain spots minimum...and this doesn't factor in pilots who leave for other airlines, who are terminated, medical out, or who bid FO for QOL, etc. But generally speaking, XJT isn't the place to come to if you expect 1.5 year upgrades anytime soon.

Upgrade potential aside, I think CHQ will be fine doing business for DAL and UAL for the near future. Time will tell what happens to US. We have a pretty good lock on CAL's business for now but anything could happen in the next 3 years.

Looking at the contracts...I have examined CHQ's pretty carefully, almost down to every word and I have a fairly good understanding of XJT's contract as well. While CHQ isn't as weak as some others out there (they have some nice provisions in some areas like the holiday pay as well as the no JM'ing/airport reserve)...It is my opinion that XJT has better work rules as well as a much better retirement match/401k system. Our compensation (higher hourly rates plus a real profit sharing program), vacation (trips that conflict with vacation drop off and we are protected to min pay guarantee...yielding us 20-25 days off and one 4-day in a vacation month), and scheduling sections (awesome displacement rules (for when the company needs your trip to give IOE)...better trip trading as well as better reserve scheduling rules...like a 12-hour long call out) are much better as well. We also have a higher sick bank accrual. These provisions will add up to more time off as well as a higher W-2 at the end of the year. Also, CHQ has PBS and XJT doesn't (how you feel about PBS is your own view I guess...our pilots detest the thought of PBS however).

Hopefully the CHQ guys won't view this as a slam on their company or contract because its not. It is just an honest assessment from having read both contracts cover to cover. I don't want this to degenerate into a pissing contest. Some CHQ guys will talk about their quick upgrades and our 5 year FO's...fortunately, that situation of ours is pretty much taken care of in the next 5 months worth of training as we are upgrading 64 captains a month.

If any CHQ guys want to bring up some counterpoints, by all means...but lets keep it civil.

-Neal

 

[Flechas]

Hey Neal, very goos post. How do you see our situation after 1/1/07?
Also, do you see us flying for somebody else other than CAL?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Hey Neal, very goos post. How do you see our situation after 1/1/07?
Also, do you see us flying for somebody else other than CAL?

I think we are well positioned for 1/1/07 to continue doing all of CAL's jet feed. As for us feeding anyone else, I don't foresee it in the near future. There is too many bidders out there right now for not enough business...hence...a dive to the bottom on bidding for what little business is left.

-Neal

 

[Flechas]

Thanks Neal.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Man Plans and God Laughs


What I mean is who knows what the future will be for anyone. I hope the oil prices go down soon so all the airlines can get out of bankruptcy protection and therefore no one loses their jobs.

CHQ has a big adv on the 70 seat market with the EMB-170 Great airplanes and are currently being flown for United, soon Delta. Other airlines to come (I would assume)

 

[BoilerUP]

Where do you want to be based? IAH, CLE or Hell (EWR) are your options with XJT, Chautauqua puts you all sorts of places (IND, STL, SDF, GSO, BUF, MCO, FLL, CMH, ORD soon, prob missed one or two) that may or may not stay open for any period of time. XJT's contract is newer and therefore better, especially for FO pay after the probationary year. I seriously doubt CHQ's growth will continue as fast as it has been, but growth is in the future for the next year or two at least.

There is a possiblity you might upgrade faster at CHQ, then again there is a possibility that one or more of their codeshares could be Ch. 7 by the end of 2005. You might be able to flow from XJT to CAL, but more than likely not in the next decade.

Both are pretty good places to be right now, all things considered. Go wheverever based upon more than just upgrade time and your hourly compensation rate.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Neal,
Do you see XJT loosing any of the flying for CAL in 07? Doubt CAL would drop a company who flies 250 jets for them......what are your views?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal,
Do you see XJT loosing any of the flying for CAL in 07? Doubt CAL would drop a company who flies 250 jets for them......what are your views?

I have no clue at the moment. We are doing everything we can to position ourselves to prevent that from happening.

-Neal

 

[LegacyIIDriver]

At least you guys won't worry about stuff until '07. Try working at RP/CHQ where you hear a story every week about one or more of your codeshares being on the brink of bankruptcy.

Not a good situation for a junior pilot.

 

[Flyer1015]

Wait, someone correct me if I'm wrong...

... but doesn't the XJT contract with CAL go through 2010??? 2007 is when Continental, if it chooses, does not have to make XJT the sole RJ operator. Does that mean that CAL can take some of the 274 RJs from XJT and give 'em to Continental Connection aka Commutair? Or, does that mean that if any of the 100 options for the RJs are exercised, those *might* go to someone other than XJT?


So isn't XJT, technically, "safe" until 2010 ?

 

[RAV152]

Good thread. I am happy it has not degenerated into a slamming contest.

I enjoy working for CHQ. No jr manning & no airport rsv is big in my book. The variety of bases also offers a good choice of domiciles if you don't want to commute. Just like everywhere else we have our problems; scheduling, limited lines (due to the large # of bases) etc, but overall what makes this a good place to be is our fellow crewmates. Great bunch here.

I have good buddy at XJET and he enjoys it. I've also heard good things from guys I ran into at FSI. New contract kicks ass too.

Whatever you do, don't fall for the bigger jet lure. Make your decision based on where you will be happiest in terms of pay, lifestyle and family. Just like someone said previously after a couple of months it does become a job. Albeit, a very enjoyable one.

 

[91100 100 set]

Yes, a good thread. I have been happy at CHQ for the last 8 or 9 months. Alot of that satisfaction does come from my own situation however. I live in base, a junior base at that. So while enjoying the benefits of living 30 minutes from the crew room, I have moved up the FO list rather quickly as the new hires eventually move onto what they view as greener pastures. Along with that, the PBS system has been very good to me, after less than a year, I am enjoying a better schedule than I did at any time during the 5 years I spent my previous employer (which was supposedly, at one time, a premier regional) But again, my life is fairly simple without the time pressures of a wife and/or kids. Yes, the contract is much weaker in the area of work rules than I am used to, but part of that is merely because it is written more vaguely than my previous and I have not had as much experience working with it. At any rate, and this is hopefully true at just about any regional, once you hold a line, 95% of the time, you show up, fly the trip and go home, no hassle. I haven't spent more than 15 minutes talking to crew scheduling in the last 6 months.

Bottom-line, pick a company that works for you. Bases, QOL, and so on. For example, I understand that Horizon and Skywest aren't bad to work for, but they are all the way on the other side of the country for me. If I lived out west, sure, but I'd rather work for a little less or work a little harder than deal with the hassles of commuting 5-8 days a month just to say "I work for XXX". And as we've all seen and will continue to see, the primo company today or this year will be the sorry schmucks taking concessions or pay freezes next year.