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Napoleon TNT

Vote For Pedro!
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Posts
149
Mesaba will again seek OK to toss contracts

Regional carrier says it still prefers negotiated deals with unions

Staff and wire reports

As talks with its unions have not produced agreements, Mesaba Airlines plans on Monday to again ask a bankruptcy judge for permission to throw out its labor contracts.
But even if Mesaba, a regional carrier for Northwest Airlines, gets approval to reject the contracts, it has indicated it still will try to bargain deals, said spokeswoman Elizabeth Costello.
"We have not set a date for imposing terms if the judge rules in our favor,'' she said. "Negotiated settlements are our preference."
Costello said Mesaba has been talking with its mechanics, pilots and flight attendants unions but hasn't been able to reach deals to cut its labor costs by about 19 percent. Monday had been set earlier as a day to return to court.
Pilots union leader Tom Wychor expects Mesaba would use the authority to impose contracts as a bargaining chip in another round of negotiations.
"They'll set a deadline,'' he said. "For all intents and purposes, we have been told Aug. 1."
Costello said Mesaba has not set a deadline for agreements.
Eagan-based Mesaba filed for bankruptcy protection in October, about a month after Northwest's Chapter 11 filing. Bankruptcy Judge Gregory Kishel in Minneapolis rejected Mesaba's first request to throw out its union contracts. But the judge's rejection was based mostly on technical grounds, and Mesaba quickly corrected those and renewed its request.
All three unions have raised the possibility of a strike if the judge allows Mesaba to impose its terms on them. "We can strike at a time and place of our choosing,'' said Wychor.
Airlines in bankruptcy repeatedly have argued that their unions don't have a right to strike. Legal experts agree that a clear legal precedent is lacking on the issue.
Mesaba has said it is losing $2 million to $3 million a month and it will run out of cash by the end of August unless it gets debtor-in-possession financing. Mesaba also is still waiting for Northwest, its only customer, to decide whether Mesaba will keep doing regional flying.
Mesaba parent MAIR Holdings Inc. has withdrawn an earlier offer for such financing. On Thursday, Costello said the airline is in talks with two other debtor-in-possession financiers and hopes to have an answer in about a week.
The Associated Press and staff writer Martin J. Moylan contributed to this story
 
on a good note

at least we now have better flight benefits. at least maybe I was looking at the new memo, I think we are now a lower priority on our own a/c !!!!!!! NWA and 9E have higher priority.

Thanks sponge bob another job well done
 
xjgearbtch said:
at least we now have better flight benefits. at least maybe I was looking at the new memo, I think we are now a lower priority on our own a/c !!!!!!! NWA and 9E have higher priority.

Thanks sponge bob another job well done

Yeah, I am having a hard time figuring this one out. Why does Pinnacle have the same priority as NWA, but we are lower? Just another kick in the nuts!!


Well, on second thought, who cares. Almost cheaper to buy a ticket anyways!!
 
Mesaba has said it is losing $2 million to $3 million a month and it will run out of cash by the end of August unless it gets debtor-in-possession financing.

Don't give Spanjers any bonuses this year, and wala, problem solved.
 
Guys, if you haven't seen it, there's another re-alignment notice out today. (June 23rd) Plus, another Seniority list.
 
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How many non furloughed pilots are on the new seniority list? Just trying to figure out where I fall. When I left, I was 800ish.
 
Northern Lights said:
How many non furloughed pilots are on the new seniority list? Just trying to figure out where I fall. When I left, I was 800ish.

Looks like 730 non-furloughed pilots. The full list is at 876. I've moved up 45 spots since the 16 Feb 2006 List.
 
gnx99 said:
Guys, if you haven't seen it, there's another re-alignment notice out today. (June 23rd) Plus, another Seniority list.

MSP and DTW Avro captains are going up. Displaced MEM people I assume. Also, MSP & DTW Saab FO's are going up.


No they aren't. Each hub is shaving off 6 Avro Captain slots.
 
I dunno why I even bother to read these anymore.....
Mesaba isn't due for it's 30 seconds of good news and hope for another 18 months.
 
did you hear that Ron jensen is getting current in the avro again ??? why would that be? why would senior management need to get training on a plane that is going away?

how is it that compass is suppose to be replacing the avro flying, as per a NWA/compass press release, how are they increasing their flying by ten percent but yet losing like 5 percent of the fleet (avro is a little less than 5 percent, but add the 15 pinnacle jets....)

So this does not make sence, not to mention, that why would, if you owned 30% of a company, why would you do something that made that company lose money? example, you own part of burger king, but yet sell burgers to Mcdonalds for cheaper than you do your own company??????

Oh another thing, NWA creates a company which is suppose to be staffed by NWa pilots on furlough, this is to be 36 76 seat jets, on line by 2009 (as per NWA press release). How will this happen when even NWa says that they will be recalling 400 pilots maybe more in the next two years, and there is even talk they might even have to hire since so many have totally given up on their NWA callback and will not come back. Moral of the story, NWA MAIr holdings, Mesaba and compass are up to something that smells like crap. Something is fishy......$hitty whatever, will mair holdings get control of Compass and that is the reason for the part of the bankruptcy which tried to cancell the scope clause mesaba pilots have? MAIR holdings is a creditor for NWA bankruptcy filings, and has something coming back to them after all this is done with. this is just my reasoning...or lack there of......
 
Maybe I looked at it wrong (easy enough these days), but it looked to me like they removed the voluntary furlough notice.
 
xjhawk said:
did you hear that Ron jensen is getting current in the avro again ??? why would that be? why would senior management need to get training on a plane that is going away?

how is it that compass is suppose to be replacing the avro flying, as per a NWA/compass press release, how are they increasing their flying by ten percent but yet losing like 5 percent of the fleet (avro is a little less than 5 percent, but add the 15 pinnacle jets....)

So this does not make sence, not to mention, that why would, if you owned 30% of a company, why would you do something that made that company lose money? example, you own part of burger king, but yet sell burgers to Mcdonalds for cheaper than you do your own company??????

Oh another thing, NWA creates a company which is suppose to be staffed by NWa pilots on furlough, this is to be 36 76 seat jets, on line by 2009 (as per NWA press release). How will this happen when even NWa says that they will be recalling 400 pilots maybe more in the next two years, and there is even talk they might even have to hire since so many have totally given up on their NWA callback and will not come back. Moral of the story, NWA MAIr holdings, Mesaba and compass are up to something that smells like crap. Something is fishy......$hitty whatever, will mair holdings get control of Compass and that is the reason for the part of the bankruptcy which tried to cancell the scope clause mesaba pilots have? MAIR holdings is a creditor for NWA bankruptcy filings, and has something coming back to them after all this is done with. this is just my reasoning...or lack there of......
How about this for a conspiracy theory: XJ liquidates (must be what they want with the lack of negotiations?) out goes the XJ senority list which means no letter of agreement between ALPA and MAIR. MAIR picks up Compass and also now has BigSky to use to whipsaw its own pilot groups??? Or screw Compass just uses Big Sky??
 
OK, I asked a rep this specific question: "What if XJ liquidates?" The answer I recieved was that we still have the seniority list, and our protection from the letter is still in full effect, meaning we get jobs per the XJ seniority list at whatever the new MAIR airline is.
 
You'll have a list without a CBA. That's about as good as worthless. They don't want to replace you, they want you to work for less.
 
The comment from the rep about the letter is that a legal based answer or an answer formulated from their oen mind? Secondly, without concessions XJ will not survive (that is basically the companies stance). Then my question is; If this is the case who is responsible for the lack of negotiations? Since the rejected motion (May 18th I believe) how many days have we actually spent in negotiations? I do know that since the latest filing (June 12) they have only met for 2 days. These do not seem the actions of a desperate company.
 
Appendix F.1 : This letter will confirm the following commitments of MAIR Holdings, Inc. with respect to the pilots in the service of Mesaba Aviations, Inc., as represented by ALPA. ............. No Mesaba to service then no letter of agreement????
 
Here is my take...Mesaba ceases to exist...Comp-ass is bought by MAIR....so all us poor XJ smucks get to become year one employees at Comp-ass. Not a bad move by our slt...get rid of that pesky "longevity shift" problem. Of course if you are trying to eeck out a living ...well in that case it kinda sucks.
 
I believe you have a valid point. Not to mention it would also allow them the option of using Big Sky to whipsaw in future contract talks. I bet they would give Mesaba pilots preferential interviews. They are going to use the money you guys worked so hard for to stick it to you. How long has this been planned?
 
Spanjers/Foley can both kiss my hairy bean-bag. They make John Wayne Gacy look like Santa Clause. They took a good airline and are running it into the ground. I'm getting away from the redtail regime as fast as I can. I hope the pilot group at XJ lands on their feet when the ground stops shaking...I flew with good people there and not a one deserves whats being served to them.:smash:
 
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xjlifer said:
Here is my take...Mesaba ceases to exist...Comp-ass is bought by MAIR....so all us poor XJ smucks get to become year one employees at Comp-ass. Not a bad move by our slt...get rid of that pesky "longevity shift" problem. Of course if you are trying to eeck out a living ...well in that case it kinda sucks.
When they get the labor savings, suddenly compass will cease to exist.
 
Actually, that LOA is our only protection right now. There will always be an XJ seniority list, even if we liquidate, just as there is still an Eastern senority list. The letter is between Mair and Mesaba Alpa. As long as Alpa national funds us, and we stick around to fight for our own rights, that letter will stay intact. So if we strike, XJ liquidates, then...
Compass sold to MAIR...we fly'em.
If BigSky gets the SAABS...we fly'em
Don't give up your right before the fight even starts.

Everything up to this point has been posturing. Mgmt is VERY afraid that we will strike (I was told this Friday by a DTW Chief). The question is do we have the intestinal fortitude do pull the trigger. I think yes, and would rather burn this company down than drag this industry further in the muck.

A wise pilot once told me, "I would rather die a mayrter, then live my life as a whore."
 
To answer the question why management is not in a hurry to talk; there is nothing to talk about yet.

They will return to the table only after the court gives them the option to dump our contract and they have a carrot in hand. The carrot will be 705's, but this can only occur when the NW FA's OK a new agreement thus making the NW pilots agreement offical. Thus the delay.

When XJ returns to the table with thier hammer and carrot, true talks will begin, untill then its a waiting game. After XJ passes a TA, compass will only disappear untill it is needed to threaten some other labor negotioation.
 
I have been thinking a lot about the XJ/compass possible liquidation senerios. The only problem I have is.... well we all know that not Jinglepants, foley nor pohlad is running the show. It's mothership NWA, they are calling the shots and telling the slt what they want XJ to do. So my issue with it is, how can this all play out without a massive disruption of lift XJ provides NWA? I think loss of service for more than a week would be pretty damaging, unless they depend on PNCL route overlap to fill the gaps in the meantime. If we do settle ( alpa , amfa , and the fa's ) how much you want to bet there will be NO COMPASS and NWA alpa got screwed.
 
XJWRENCH said:
I have been thinking a lot about the XJ/compass possible liquidation senerios. The only problem I have is.... well we all know that not Jinglepants, foley nor pohlad is running the show. It's mothership NWA, they are calling the shots and telling the slt what they want XJ to do. So my issue with it is, how can this all play out without a massive disruption of lift XJ provides NWA? I think loss of service for more than a week would be pretty damaging, unless they depend on PNCL route overlap to fill the gaps in the meantime. If we do settle ( alpa , amfa , and the fa's ) how much you want to bet there will be NO COMPASS and NWA alpa got screwed.
I asked the same question about the loss of market share. The response I got was that NWA was willing to give up on market share for a decade or more for concessions. Although not official, compass fades further into the background with each and every concessionary contract.
 
Re Compass:You guys are forgetting one thing about Compass. In order for the NWA management guys to make money when they sell it they will have to have it up and running.Say with 15/20 A/C.Thats the word around here anyway. Nice little retirement bonus for them.
 
Said it before, i'll say it again: XJ will get rid of all flying. COmpass does it for peanuts. XJ (Mesaba AVIATION) is the exclusive ground handling company for Northwest Airlines nationwide. (except hubs) XJ already does PCL and NWA at some stations. THey do it well - they'll do it better once they get it all and Spanky puts the screws to them about performance (bonuses).
Makes Spanky, Fooley, Pohlad, shereholders, etc. a whole wad of dough. Everybody that counts is happy.
There will always be an XJ seniority list, even if we liquidate, just as there is still an Eastern senority list
Yep, and the senior guys can either go to COmpass, or be the station manager at FNT.
 
KaptainKarl said:
(Mesaba AVIATION) is the exclusive ground handling company for Northwest Airlines nationwide. (except hubs) XJ already does PCL and NWA at some stations. THey do it well

You must be joking. Mesaba ground handling in DTW is just about the worst service in the entire industry.
 

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