XJ January Furloughs

[SEVEN]

Hey any of you Mesaba furloughs from January get other jobs and move on? Are there any of you who will come back when they begin recalls?

 

[AWACO]

Yes I now work for Air Wisconsin. Would I come back to Mesaba? Yes, but NOT for a pay cut of any form! Good luck guys, and dont give in.

 

[Groundskprwilly]

I've gone back to instructing and I don't know if I'll go back.

 

[captpetefam]

Sad but true

I've gone back to instructing and I don't know if I'll go back.

That's REALLY sad when going back to instructing sounds better than flying for a regional. Good Luck.

CP

 

[CubanSmoker]

That's REALLY sad when going back to instructing sounds better than flying for a regional. Good Luck.

CP

Hey Capt Pete,
Someone asked me in the crew room if you were leaving for greener pastures. Is that the case?

 

[GARFF]

Thinkin....if i do get let go......go out west and do the ski bum thang!

 

[captpetefam]

Well... maybe.

Hey Capt Pete,
Someone asked me in the crew room if you were leaving for greener pastures. Is that the case?

I am actively pursuing other venues. I have a very close lead that I am considering right now. To be quite honest, it comes down to that trusty limitation... flight time. I'm about 50 hrs short of their insurance requirement. If we can keep our head above water through March, I'll be set. Hopefully by then we will know more. I've said it on the union site and I think I've said it here too. I have two conditions that will make me leave:

1) Furloughed. In which case I will be forced to find another job.
2) Pay cut. It doesn't matter if that is through 1113 or concessions. I can't afford concessions for one thing. I can barely feed the three Minivan-monkeys I have on my current salary; how can I afford it at reduced pay?

The main thing is that this company, and, after that email last week, our union, are not entirely reliable. I want to make sure I have something ready for when the time comes to walk. And if we don't walk when the time is right, then I will walk alone.

So, to make a short story long... I'm not gone yet but I have my foot out the door.

Cya,

CP

 

[airmasn]

" our union, are not entirely reliable. "

explain...

 

[xjhawk]

hey garff, let me know, i might join you, but it might be summer when we are let go....or april. i am looking at.....thinking this will really suck, but i know i will not give in....would rather.....i have no idea...

 

[captpetefam]

Here's the short answer.

The whole issues has been misrepresented from the start. As much as I dislike Foley, he's smart. By setting up MAIR, they provided a legal way to syphon our money. Our pilot contract is not with MAIR. Yes, our profits from Mesaba, whom we have an agreement with, go to MAIR under various titles of transfer, but our pilot contract is not with MAIR.

So, this whole time that we've been told that MAIR should be held accountable and MAIR has our money and MAIR needs to be in court, I would like to agree with it but it's a waste of time. The BK Judge isn't being "Anit-labor" by not bringing MAIR into the 1113 filings, he's upholding the law. Is what XJ and MAIR doing moral, NO! Is it legal, unfortunatly, yes.

So, what do we do then? Call their bluff. This whole time we've been saying, Not one cent! Please know that that is STILL what I am saying, NOT ONE CENT! But then I get an email saying that we need to consider these concessions and get ready for takin' it up the wahoo. I don't know anyone that read that letter and didn't get the feeling that our MEC and Negotiating Committe were throwing their hands up in surrender. Plus, I'm hearing more and more senior pilots saying things like, "we need to take this one and live to fight another day." Yeah, when? Like they fought in 2004 or the contract before that?

Bottom line, I think the pilot group is outstanding at XJ. Everyone is fantastic, even some of the ones I don't like But that Hotline last week was such a slap in the face that I can't help but not trust them right now.

Well, that's the short answer. Cya,

CP

 

[airmasn]

I dont get the feeling that pilots at XJ think the union is caving...but the reality is this:
whether or not anyone thinks the bankruptcy is bogus is irrelevent now. a concessionary deal is being worked on so that at least the pilots will have a choice...they can still vote no.

if the pilots are presented with a TA, they may still vote it down (the "not one cent" chest pounders will still have a say). if the judge sides (again) with the company and lets them impose their 1113 term sheet AND says a strike is illegal, you will have another choice:

QUIT OR WORK UNDER THE IMPOSED CONTRACT

the union is preparing to open strike centers so dont think for a second they arent considering a strike...they ARE navigating towards it to protect what we have.

I think the union lost some leverage after the judge sided with the company, but in no way are they just throwing up their arms and giving up.

 

[Dodge]

I dont get the feeling that pilots at XJ think the union is caving...but the reality is this:
whether or not anyone thinks the bankruptcy is bogus is irrelevent now. a concessionary deal is being worked on so that at least the pilots will have a choice...they can still vote no.

if the pilots are presented with a TA, they may still vote it down (the "not one cent" chest pounders will still have a say). if the judge sides (again) with the company and lets them impose their 1113 term sheet AND says a strike is illegal, you will have another choice:

QUIT OR WORK UNDER THE IMPOSED CONTRACT

the union is preparing to open strike centers so dont think for a second they arent considering a strike...they ARE navigating towards it to protect what we have.

I think the union lost some leverage after the judge sided with the company, but in no way are they just throwing up their arms and giving up.

I believe that the judge will side with the law, not a specific group. And yes, the "chestpounders" will still get a vote on whether or not to work under a forced contract or a concessionary one brought about by the union.

My suggestion for ALPA would be to offer up the 1996 contract (with or w/o the concessions). The current contract is a vast improvement from that agreement and the company already knows all the loop holes.

Remember, the MEC does a great job but they are still politicians. My guess is that there will be no strike/shutdown as the top 25% have no ambition or ability to do anything or go anywhere else. That is their choice or circimstance and that is fine, but the junior 75% need to either accept the paycuts at Mesaba, or leave to make what you would make at year 5 at XJ, in year 2 anywhere else.

It is going to be quite the ego check to see some of the Avro CA going back to Saab CA. I guess some will be going back to Saab FO, yikes.

 

[airmasn]

I believe that the judge will side with the law, not a specific group. And yes, the "chestpounders" will still get a vote on whether or not to work under a forced contract or a concessionary one brought about by the union.

My suggestion for ALPA would be to offer up the 1996 contract (with or w/o the concessions). The current contract is a vast improvement from that agreement and the company already knows all the loop holes.

Remember, the MEC does a great job but they are still politicians. My guess is that there will be no strike/shutdown as the top 25% have no ambition or ability to do anything or go anywhere else.

1. if it's a forced contract, you will have no vote. only a choice to quit or work under it.

2. I'm not sure I understand you. the judge has to rule for one side or the other... bankruptcy laws are already in place. if he was smart, he would put pressure on both parties to negotiate a settlement so he wouldnt have to rule and possibly be responsible for the liquidation of XJ (the very thing he was trying to avoid), but he doesnt seem to care. his job is to decide what is best for Mesaba, even if that includes abrogating the current CBAs.

3. from what youre saying, it will be the pilot group that caves, not the union? the people on top of the seniority list should be the most pissed off because they decided (?) to make Mesaba a career...I hope they will not just sit back and say the hell with it.

as for what the union is offering as of last week, I believe it is significantly better than the 1996 TA, and I (for one) will not give up scope. if you give away scope, you give your job away to the turds at big sky.

 

[Bringupthebird]

When Comair went on strike, didn't their MEC put out the TA to a vote without recommending one way or the other and didn't the mediator park them for a certain amount of time? (Long ago story with a short term memory).

Point being could the MEC present their plan without a recommendation as a tacit "no" and thus force the strike? The "live to fight another day" argument is hollow, since you defend progressively less land with each retreat. It will never get any easier than it is now, so either vote to change things for the better or vote to hasten change for the worse, those are the only choices.

 

[Dodge]

I think we are on the same page here. The judge has to decide which interest groups is on the correct side of the law. The company researched this very carefully and did not file BK if they thought that the law was going to be on the side of the pilots. I only take issue with the point that the judge is doing what is best for Mesaba. He is doing what is best for the creditors, who want to get as much of their promised money from the sack full of liars that reside in the Pan Am building.

If the contract is forced, you are correct, no vote, except for the one with your spouse on when to leave a burning ship.

My personal belief is that the senior guys will sign away whatever it takes as long as they can make $60/yr, live in MN with 16 days off. If that means flying DC-10's at 54.26 per hour for a 12 year captain........well at least I'm still in Minnie.

You are also correct with scope. Give that up an everyone will be out on the street.

 

[Dodge]

When Comair went on strike, didn't their MEC put out the TA to a vote without recommending one way or the other and didn't the mediator park them for a certain amount of time? (Long ago story with a short term memory).

Point being could the MEC present their plan without a recommendation as a tacit "no" and thus force the strike? The "live to fight another day" argument is hollow, since you defend progressively less land with each retreat. It will never get any easier than it is now, so either vote to change things for the better or vote to hasten change for the worse, those are the only choices.

Mesaba's MEC pushed the 2004 TA fairly hard on the pilots. Attorney for ALPA telling the crew room meetings that this was the best the would ever get. The "live to fight another day" is a battle cry for every hard contract decision at Mesaba for the last 10 years. Mesaba can come up with more ways than anyone to tell their FO's, "you ain't worth nothing."

 

[GARFF]

hey garff, let me know, i might join you, but it might be summer when we are let go....or april. i am looking at.....thinking this will really suck, but i know i will not give in....would rather.....i have no idea...

HAHAHAHHAHAHHA!
I dont know what i m gonna do if its before ski season...start getting high, go a bender....hopefully something fun! I dont think it will be that soon....i m thinkin mid to late summer.....i might try and apply at a place that has a base in the mountains(exept Big Sky of course!!!!!!)

Oh yes...dont forget to vote!