XJ Attrition

[XJWRENCH]

Good article in the Star Tribune, doesn't paint a very good picture for XJ mgt. Actually I think it slams them pretty good, not that they deserve it ( sarcasm )

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/400251.html

 

[Detroitpilot22]

"Mesaba is a subsidiary of Minneapolis-based MAIR Holdings Inc., a publicly traded company whose chairman is Minnesota Twins owner and billionaire Carl Pohlad"

His Karma for treating you guys that way is that the minnesota twins suck and they just got beat by the tigers 3 straight outscoring them 33-1.
Take that CARL! Maybe you should ask the baseball players to take pay cuts.

 

[JT8D]

Maybe you should ask the baseball players to take pay cuts.

Would never work.

Professional baseball players withhold their services until they are offered a contract that pays them what they think they are worth.

Professional pilots don't seem to be able to comprehend how to do that.

 

[bri5150]

Well said!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

"I am seeing career Mesaba pilots leaving and contemplating leaving, people who were planning on retiring from this carrier," said Tom Wychor, chairman of the Mesaba branch of the Air Line Pilots Association.
Ex-Mesaba pilots recently have landed jobs at Southwest Airlines, JetBlue Airways, Continental Airlines and NetJets, Wychor said. "The company has lost sight of the value of their employees," he said.

Really Tom? Is that why ALPA negotiated on behalf of the Northwest pilots to create Compass? Is that why ALPA has not problem with alter ego competition destroying the profession at the small jet level?

It amazes me that ALPA can promote alter ego competition for jobs and flying, then stand there acting surprised when companies scramble to take advantage of the alter ego replacements that ALPA promoted.

Someone needs to tell ALPA that the union's job is not to wish "non preferred" pilots luck in finding real jobs - ALPA's job is to raise the profession so that all pilot jobs are "preferred."

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Really Tom? Is that why ALPA negotiated on behalf of the Northwest pilots to create Compass? Is that why ALPA has not problem with alter ego competition destroying the profession at the small jet level?

It amazes me that ALPA can promote alter ego competition for jobs and flying, then stand there acting surprised when companies scramble to take advantage of the alter ego replacements that ALPA promoted.

Someone needs to tell ALPA that the union's job is not to wish "non preferred" pilots luck in finding real jobs - ALPA's job is to raise the profession so that all pilot jobs are "preferred."

You have to realize that when XJ does get done with this mess, compass will be a step above it. ALPA claims it a victory because it already has a better contract there than XJ and 9E. The regionals are always going to be subject to contract competition, therefore pay and QOL will always be low. Don't think for a second compass will get more airplanes than you if you guys take the concessions the company is offering at XJ.

 

[wmudriver]

You have to realize that when XJ does get done with this mess, compass will be a step above it. ALPA claims it a victory because it already has a better contract there than XJ and 9E. The regionals are always going to be subject to contract competition, therefore pay and QOL will always be low. Don't think for a second compass will get more airplanes than you if you guys take the concessions the company is offering at XJ.

YPF please...you're just trying to polish a turd a this point. You do say some pretty dumb stuff. Compass is a big, steamy, turd that will be sold as soon as it has enough a/c to look attractive to another company (Brian Bedford). It shouldn't have been created and if Duane Woerth signs off on your TA (if it passes), his a$$ should be out on the street with me. Now I bet NWA has got Delta envy, and the TA won't even pass MEMRAT. So it will be another month of negotiations, then another month of voting.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The regionals are always going to be subject to contract competition, therefore pay and QOL will always be low. Don't think for a second compass will get more airplanes than you if you guys take the concessions the company is offering at XJ.

Why?

If ALPA made the choice to allow regionals to negotiate scope within the brand this would stop. Delta management agreed to enter into scope negotiations with ASA and Comair, it was ALPA who stopped those negotiations from going forward. Comair got an industry leading contract and because of ALPA's deliberate action now faces death as their flying goes to Mesa, Chautauqua, Shuttle America, SkyWest and even ASA.

We need a union that represents all of its members, not just a few members at preferred cariers.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Why?

If ALPA made the choice to allow regionals to negotiate scope within the brand this would stop. Delta management agreed to enter into scope negotiations with ASA and Comair, it was ALPA who stopped those negotiations from going forward. Comair got an industry leading contract and because of ALPA's deliberate action now faces death as their flying goes to Mesa, Chautauqua, Shuttle America, SkyWest and even ASA.

We need a union that represents all of its members, not just a few members at preferred cariers.

If they had brand scope they wouldn't be regional carriers.

 

[wmudriver]

Anywho...before this thread got hijacked...attrition is bad amongst the pilot ranks. I bet that out of 146 pilots who have gotten furloughed, fewer than half are still around. It will be interesting when/if they start recalling, they will pretty much have to start hiring again from scratch, costing them more money. It sucks b/c we had a good group of people there and this grabasstic mgmt. pretty much killed that and chased people away.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

YPF please...you're just trying to polish a turd a this point. You do say some pretty dumb stuff. Compass is a big, steamy, turd that will be sold as soon as it has enough a/c to look attractive to another company (Brian Bedford). It shouldn't have been created and if Duane Woerth signs off on your TA (if it passes), his a$$ should be out on the street with me. Now I bet NWA has got Delta envy, and the TA won't even pass MEMRAT. So it will be another month of negotiations, then another month of voting.

Duane signs whatever the pilots at NWA vote in, his position is useless. We were negotiating with these factors in mind.
1. Scope at the 76 seat level has already been given up by other carriers.
2. NWA has a significant number of furloughs that may increase as a result of scope relax.
3. Provide the best possible job outcome for the NWA furloughed pilots.
Sending our pilots to XJ/9E is not a better alternative to sending them to compass, especially if those companies take concessions.

You guys would not accept the alternative of allowing furlough pilots to flow back into XJ/9E at the expense of your own pilots. Also, you have to realize that if you take concessions, XJ is a better alternative for the company to send 55 planes there and give the over flow to compass and sell it off. I also see it likely that NWA will try to sell off the cargo operation with compass and spin it off as its own company. Mostly because NWA will be unable to provide expansion for the cargo division now that it will be forced to buy E195's for the mainline. They will still use the NWA pilots on the cargo outfit unless someone is willing to work for less.

They would have liquidated XJ by now if that company was going away.

 

[kmox29]

Duane signs whatever the pilots at NWA vote in, his position is useless. We were negotiating with these factors in mind.
1. Scope at the 76 seat level has already been given up by other carriers.
2. NWA has a significant number of furloughs that may increase as a result of scope relax.
3. Provide the best possible job outcome for the NWA furloughed pilots.
Sending our pilots to XJ/9E is not a better alternative to sending them to compass, especially if those companies take concessions.

You guys would not accept the alternative of allowing furlough pilots to flow back into XJ/9E at the expense of your own pilots.

It's amazing how you justify your position. If Mesaba were to accept the term sheet in order to "save" or jobs, there would be an outcry of rage at the mainline about how we're screwing the profession. But if it's mainline doing it, it's OK.

You're friggin' right we wouldn't accept a flowback. You guys had your chance at creating a flowthrough/flowback. You blew it.

Now you allow a 3rd whipsaw and try to tell me you have no choice. Priceless. ALPA is powerless. It's everybody for themselves. Screw anyone you can to better your position. I learned that from Northwest pilots.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

If they had brand scope they wouldn't be regional carriers.

So you're saying that if NWALPA had stuck to its Redtail Resolution that stated NWA flying should only go to NW, 9E, or XJ, I would now be a pilot at a major? Wait, that doesn't make any sense.

Care to elaborate?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

So you're saying that if NWALPA had stuck to its Redtail Resolution that stated NWA flying should only go to NW, 9E, or XJ, I would now be a pilot at a major? Wait, that doesn't make any sense.

Care to elaborate?

What seperates you from the mainline, is the fact that we have a contract that says NWA pilots do NWA flying above 55 seats. Anything below that is fair game open to the LOWEST bidder.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

What seperates you from the mainline, is the fact that we have a contract that says NWA pilots do NWA flying above 55 seats.

Right, I got that part.

Anything below that is fair game open to the LOWEST bidder.

So being a regional airline depends on whether you have to compete with others for codeshare?

What about the resolution that NWALPA approved which stated that all NWA flying should be done by NW, 9E, and XJ? I guess resolutions have nothing to do with being resolute.

 

[saabservant]

"Brand Scope"...how quaint! Now get back to your saabs and rj's regional riff-raff!...-Woerth and Mclain

 

[saabservant]

Airlink jobs and careers are only useful, to mainline negotiators, as bargaining credits, to be traded away for fewer concessions or greater gains at mainline.
Resolutions, articles on Brand Scope by the mec chairman, and "fee for departure" task forces from Woerth are distractions used to placate any unrest among the regional dues-payers. YPF states the reality: pay and standards are only for mainline pilots, all others must scramble for any scraps as the lowest bidder. Never mind that we pay the same dues to the same "union".

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The regionals have these things going for them:
1. There is a pilot shortage at the regionals
2. They are growing by considerable margin.
3. Most are turning a profit in the airline industry.
All these factors increase the pay and QOL for airline pilots. So why at the regionals is it causing a decrease? Your respective parent company has removed any barginning power you guys have. It doesn't matter if ALPA takes a stand, they will start a non-ALPA carrier. Futhermore, look at any large regional airline route map, those don't look like regional routes to me. Then look at the big sky airlines route map, and see what a regional should look like.

For the lazy:
http://www.skywest.com/routemaps/rm_img/skyw_asa_72.gif

http://www.bigskyair.com/#

 

[D'Angelo]

Would never work.

Professional baseball players withhold their services until they are offered a contract that pays them what they think they are worth.

Professional pilots don't seem to be able to comprehend how to do that.

How many people can actually cut it in the big leagues vs. how many people can fly an airplane? Also when baseball players go on strike the entire league shuts down not just one team. For these reasons going on strike at an airline now a days is for the tards. Its simply what the market will bear. People pay enough to go see people play baseball and make those salaries. If enough people stopped showing up I guarantee salaries would be going down.