X-Jet Comments from 2003

[ERJDRVR]

I.P. Freley vbmenu_register("postmenu_223460", true); ​

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Man am I going to love it when all of these sanctimonious ExpJet blowhards don't get the contract that "raises the bar" and we can all slam THEM.

Go ahead, EJ, make a liar out of me. It's easy to slam Mesa/CHQ/whomever, but I don't think you have the cojones... and I look forward to the result.

I think that some EJ pilotos can learn a thing or two from the old "glass houses" thing.

Already salivating in anticipation....

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[ERJDRVR]

Mr Hat vbmenu_register("postmenu_223083", true); ​

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Aircraft Experience: C172, M20E, C310, C402, BE1900, EMB145/135 ER LR and XR

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Total Time: 4000

Are the pilots of ExpressJet the only ones in this industry who see that getting paid E145 pay to fly something the size of Americans F100 is BULLSH*T!

Not only that but current E145 and CL65 payscales are so significantly lower than ANY other Jet pilots pay in the airline industry, Corporate industry or any other **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** industry on this planet that uses jets?!?

If we ever want to fix the current E145 pay issue, and regardless of you're future dreams of 747s at United, E145 pay is a big issue, then WE, THE PILOTS OF THOSE AIRPLANES NEED TO STAND UP AND SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!
You aint going anywhere for a while, better fix what you can count on.....Never mind, we'll do it for you.

10-12-2003, 15:17​

#20


TOGA vbmenu_register("postmenu_223149", true);

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So, you guys don't have the sack to vote against that POS that hurts all of us, but you have enough to come on here & defend yourselves by spouting 'I don't care what anyone else thinks' BS. Continental could've USED a few "good" pilots like you back in the early '80s. From my wife, my kids, and myself . . . thanks bunches. It's all right, we'll take care of it ourselves. You guys enjoy that contract, now.


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[ERJDRVR]

BORN2FLY vbmenu_register("postmenu_225779", true);

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Aircraft Experience: PA28, M20J, PA44, BE76, Lear 25, Falcon 20, Embraer 135/145

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Ratings: Commercial Multiengine,CFI,CFII,MEI

Current Position: First Officer

Total Time: A lot

Quote:

Originally posted by ERJpusher
To all of you spewing your self-righteous bull$hlt about your contract rates in 1997 as compared to ours:

You keep talking about "raising the bar." Well, guess what? We are trying to work with the bar that YOU set for us. If you would have agreed on higher wages right away, we wouldn't have to work so hard to improve upon them. If you think the rates are crap, WHY IN THE HELL DID YOU SIGN ON FOR THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?



Wow, I don't even know where to begin with you. You want to argue from past contract to past contract? Ok...what were you making on your last contract prior to 1997? Contract '97 for us went from $13.00/hr to over $20.00...still WAY behind the power curve, yes. But, a pretty substantial percentage increase. Oh...and, by the way...what kind of "flow-through" did you have as part of your contract in '97????.........?????? You're trying to fight a fire with gasoline.

Quote:

Originally posted by ERJpusher
You think we are screwing you right now, but in reality, you screwed yourself and everyone else in the regional industry 5 years ago with your first "bar-setting" contract.



Bottom line: You have noone to blame for your P.O.S. contract but yourselves. Your "increases" are a disgrace. The only thing that increased in your contract was your "lack of standards and guts."

All of you who voted "YES" should be ashamed.

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BORN2FLY vbmenu_register("postmenu_225801", true);

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Total Time: A lot

T O O L

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Man, you should break your own fingers before you think about getting on that keyboard again. Every time you start typing, you prove what a "stain" you are. The flow through worked great for a lot of people, for a long time. Noone could forsee 9/11. There's a "down" side to everything. But, it sure beat the hell out of your flow-through. OH! Wait! You didn't have one.

Just sit back "little-man", and find out what a REAL contract looks like.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/report.php?p=225801

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BORN2FLY vbmenu_register("postmenu_227646", true);

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Total Time: A lot

Re: Re: T O O L

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Quote:

Originally posted by BlueCanoe
Captain X,

Good luck with your contract. I hope you all do well, but with guys like this, I hope it doesn't ruin your job. [/B]



Blue,

I'm curious. What, exactly, is wrong with what I said? NOTHING. You guys just don't like being "called out" for what you're responsible for. But, hey, Captain X...I hope my opinion that CHQ rolled over for management doesn't "ruin your job" too. Come on Blue

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[ERJDRVR]

BORN2FLY vbmenu_register("postmenu_225264", true);

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Total Time: A lot

Re: Get a life

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Quote:

Originally posted by E-Man
Since my TV hasn't moved down here yet, I log onto this site for the first time since I got nothing else to do. I will never log on again. You all yellin and cryin about how CHQ shoulda stood up to managment, this and that-as if you yourself coulda done way better on the neg. table, my family is hurting cause of this-well how bout this tough guy/guys-instead of spending endless time typing slander on here like cybernerd-spend some quality time with the family and friends of yours-or do you have any friends?
We did the best we could here. period. Now shut up and get a life.
For the first and last time on here,
E-Man



Man, every time you guys start typing you prove why you SETTLED for that pitiful excuse for a contract. Thanks for participating, "E-Man

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BORN2FLY vbmenu_register("postmenu_225536", true);

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Total Time: A lot

Quote:

Originally posted by Cracker
For starters, flyr and born2fly...I'm not going to continue with any type of childish personal attacks that you seem fond of.



Continue? You were the one who told someone he'd better "hope he doesn't meet up with you in a hotel bar."

Quote:

Originally posted by Cracker
As a FO with CHQ, married with 2 kids, I can honestly say that I live fairly comfortably on my "measly" pay. I guess that I can run a decent budget, but that's just me.



I guess you can consider yourself lucky that your family is fond of "Ramen Noodles." You can't seriously sit there and honestly say that you're happy with your compensation. You can't be that ridiculous. C'mon, man...it's not rocket science.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cracker
This whole thread and argument is about as trite and overplayed as it has ever been since deregulation.



Wow, I didn't realize this thread has been running since 1978.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cracker
We don't expect you to understand, we just expect you to do your part when it comes time. If you can do it better...well that's where the leaders are born.



Sit back and watch.



Man, you need a LOT of work.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/report.php?p=225536

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10-17-2003, 12:55

#106
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Air Biscuit vbmenu_register("postmenu_225538", true);

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O.K. I made a mistake it was your second ta. It does make some difference because I'm sure that alot of you guys were getting frustrated and wanted to make some kind of improvements over what you had. It is unfortunate though that managements will not give you anything that you aren't willing to walk for. Now that you settled you will be flying at those rates for years and years. You all work for a profitable company and you would have been close to a real strike threat which would have shown management that you weren't a bunch of pu$$ies. I know that you guys don't feel like you are in the same league as Comair and COEX, but it seems that most of you are trying to justify making peanuts and Z-scale wages. When will it end. Compare your job to a UPS driver. $70,000 a year driving boxes and home every night. 9 weeks paid vacation and a nice retirement pension. How much money, time and schooling does it take to get there. None. We have to take pride in our profession. Yeah flying is cool, but it needs to pay the bills. $50,000 a year is not the cat's @ss. Only if you're still living at home with your parents. I think alot of you forgot what it took to get to where you're at and are still excited over hopes of flying bigger equipment. I would fly a C-152 if paid the bills. We need to take back our profession. You aren't Z-scale pilots. The rest of the industry is hurt every time a company is willing to do the job for less. That's why we care about what you guys get paid. We are all union pilots. Unity and resolve is what it's all about. What's done is done and we will all have to live with it. Not just the CHQ pilots.

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[ERJDRVR]

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BORN2FLY vbmenu_register("postmenu_225151", true);

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Total Time: A lot

SHAMEFUL

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BOTTOM LINE: This contract is disgraceful. All you did was pad your management's wallets. As long as pilots SETTLE for being paid "peanuts", that's all we're going to make. What do you think would happen if EVERY PILOT got on the same page and demanded the pay that we deserve? I'll tell you...WE WOULD GET IT! But, since we can't seem to do that, we'll continue to allow the companies to play us against each other. Keeping the fear of being replaced alive. But, what good is a flying job that pays less than a PizzaHut delivery driver? (Yes, I saw a W2 from last year...it's true) What a shame. All you guys that talk about how we CAN'T expect to be paid more than we are is EXACTLY what the problem is. I don't know how old you are or if this is your first job in the "real" world, but, WAKE UP! You can't tell me that you're "ok" with the fact that virtually everyone else in the working environment (even the slackers who have never seen the inside of a college classroom) is making more than we do to fly a jet full of passengers at 37,000 feet.

The fact that this is even an "argument" is sickening!

Oh, and BTW...

Quote:

Originally posted by Cracker
I'm rubber, you'r glue...

Just hope I don't meet you on an overnight in a hotel bar. Get a life, brother.



whoever this clown is...grow up "tough guy(boy)".

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[ERJDRVR]

GearDwnFlaps15 vbmenu_register("postmenu_223611", true); ​

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Quote:

Originally posted by I.P. Freley
Man am I going to love it when all of these sanctimonious ExpJet blowhards don't get the contract that "raises the bar" and we can all slam THEM.

Go ahead, EJ, make a liar out of me. It's easy to slam Mesa/CHQ/whomever, but I don't think you have the cojones... and I look forward to the result.



You know, I won't waste my time bashing the CHQ/Mesa contract. I'll never have to work under it. But I will tell you (CHQ/Mesa) this: Sharpen your pencils and get ready to take notes 'cause what you said above 'ain't never gonna happen'. Feel free to print this post and save it for the appropriate time.

Air Biscuit vbmenu_register("postmenu_223723", true);

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**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**aq ua pilots aren't worth a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** obviously or they wouldn't settle with a 95% approval of their first ta know less. I can't believe even the teamsters could put a peice of crap like that out. That contract is already 7 years outdated. Thanks alot from the rest of the industry. Obviously you guys can't do anything else besides fly and spank your

Lc130driver vbmenu_register("postmenu_224276", true); ​

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Look people, if you work and fly a small jet you are NOT a regional pilot. Any body that tells you that is probably laughing at you to the bank. The business world wants you to think that, so management can line there pockets with your hard work and devotion. Watch and see how your management give them selves bonus, while your FO are in poverty. I was sicken when somebody says $50,000 is OK. People, ups driver make more than you, people at Walmart makes more than your FO. People in TSA that don't have a high school diploma make more than you. Personally I think you guys screwed the pouch on this one. You had a chance to shut down your airline, and really tell the airlines that you wont work for slaves wages anymore. But you guys caved in. One thing is for sure you made it a lot harder for the COEX pilots and Mesaba to negotiate a decent contract. Because there are pilots at Mesa and know Chautauqua that are willing to sell there souls to fly 50, 70 or maybe 100 seat aircraft for nothing, you are effecting my life and every other pilot group out there. I sure hope you guys can live with this contract for the next couple of years becuase your managment knows you will cave in just as you did here. For the people that think that they will be at a small airline for a couple of years is dreaming. You are going to be here for a long time especially when work for peanuts flying larger airplanes. I guess it's up to the pilots at COEX and Mesaba to stop the race to the bottoms.


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Sphincter Boy vbmenu_register("postmenu_224617", true); ​

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Quote:

Originally posted by GFunk20
Guys, come on, give it up.

CHQ is a done deal now. There is no changing anything, Lets move forward.




You mean backwards?

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E-Man vbmenu_register("postmenu_225229", true); ​

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Get a life

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Since my TV hasn't moved down here yet, I log onto this site for the first time since I got nothing else to do. I will never log on again. You all yellin and cryin about how CHQ shoulda stood up to managment, this and that-as if you yourself coulda done way better on the neg. table, my family is hurting cause of this-well how bout this tough guy/guys-instead of spending endless time typing slander on here like cybernerd-spend some quality time with the family and friends of yours-or do you have any friends?
We did the best we could here. period. Now shut up and get a life.
For the first and last time on here,
E-Man
"Either your brains or your signature will be on this paper. You decide" The Godfather
Go Sox!


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[ERJDRVR]

Mr Hat vbmenu_register("postmenu_223468", true);
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Okay, I did make a mistake, for some reason I had it in my head that CHQ was ALPA. It shouldnt matter as you guys are all part of this thing we call the airline industry and all pilots out there are you're brothers. In any case, You're happy with you're pay, so be it. Maybe you couldnt have done any better but just remember this, yes an RJ is a jet, it is no different than a mainline jet and it can support mainline wages. Not 737 wages, mainline wages meaning it should be at least in line with the majors not inline with this farce we call the regionals. Hell, Citation pilots make more than us at some corporations. YOU DESERVE MORE and I will maintain that until my 60th birthday. As for CAL controlling us, yes thats true however integration isnt black and white otherwise we would have been successful in it. Having the entire IAH CAL base hating us doesnt help the integration front either. But in terms of business, we are not part of CAL, we are an independant company and thats the way the mediator sees it.
Next time, it is okay to push a little and improve things. I may sound a little harsh but thats because Im a Jersey guy...just the way it is. If I was truly slamming you guys I would have just said "What a bunch of ass*oles" without any explaination.
Nobodys hiring so you aint goin anywhere for quite a while, I certainly hope 50,000 a year is good enough if it becomes a career. And it very well might become a career.

In closing, I would like to publically commend both our Negotiating Committee and our company management for working hard for the last year or so to come to a fair agreement. We are almost finished and we have already made significant gains.
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Last edited by Mr Hat : 10-13-2003
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brew3departure vbmenu_register("postmenu_223591", true);
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Put it on the board...YES
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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Posts: 96
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Total Time: 2100
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My last thoughts on the issue...
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I need not restate what I already said, except to again re-iterate to flyr - there must be a lot of pilots walking around with no self respect...let's see, refer to my first post. We are respectless - and we all know that if we had all interviewed and been hired at CoEx - we'd have self respect...give me a break. The best you can come up with is, you don't even work for CHQ, you don't like the contract, and all of us aren't even worthy of our own respect? Last time I checked, self respect was just that - something determined by your_self_. I may not be the sharpest pencil in the box, but I think I know on my own if I respect myself. And, just to hazard a guess here, I have a feeling that most, if not all, of the CHQ pilots - they probably have a pretty good idea day to day if they can respect themselves too. I'm going out on a big limb, there, but I think that's probably true. I'm not going to change your mind, but step away from that for just a minute and think about how ludicrous that sounds. Everyone that I've flown with had self respect. Or at least it seemed like they did.

CHQ isn't ALPA. The airline that I used to fly for was ALPA. Guess what it got me - furloughed several times and concessions for the pilots that still remain. ALPA/IBT/whatever - it's not about the organization, it's about _the people_. A union is a union - they exist for the same purpose, they've all been around a lot longer than I have. Anyone who thinks ALPA is the magic bullet, talk to any of the wholly owned Airways bunch. And, quite honestly, if a company is in dire financial straits, how is being ALPA vs. some other union going to make a darn bit of difference? Not that I had a dog in the fight, but ALPA was voted _down_ at Commutair and Chicago Express in the last year. Am I an ALPA hater? No - I'm not. I'm not one, though, to think that ALPA will lead the exodus to our salvation, either.

And yes, I do agree - pilots worked very hard to bring the payscales and the work rules up to what they were today. I'm not blind to that. Always strive for what's better than what you had - keep increasing. It appears to me that the folks at CHQ have done that.

I'll say it again - best of luck to you guys at CoEx - but watch out, at least, watch out in cyberspace. You guys have been talking a huge game for a while, and if that ink hits the paper and it's not everything you guys have said, prepare for a firestorm. And you know what? If you guys think it's a good contract, sign it. Because you'll learn soon enough that there are nay-sayers out there who don't even work for your company who will bash it and cry out on forums like these that "CoEx sold out, they're going to destroy aviation and the pilot profession." You know why? Because maybe you got ComAir + 5 and some nimrod wanted ComAir + 10. Sound familiar, guys? Best of luck to you though - all I can wish is that you do the best you can for your company. If that's better than CHQ or better than ComAir, my hat is off to you all.
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[ERJDRVR]

Saluki Dawg vbmenu_register("postmenu_223438", true);
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To all of my CALEX brethren, I would just like to urge all of you to get behind and support the CHQ pilots and their new contract. They are happy with what they got. I keep hearing them tell us that they aren't CALEX, Comair, ASA, or Eagle. They are absolutely right. CALEX is more than twice their size. That's nothing against CHQ, that's just a simple fact. We are exclusively with one airline and provide ALL of that airline's Small Jet feed. We have 218 Jets and over 2500 pilots. This gives us much more leverage than the CHQ pilots had over their respective management. So let's just keep our opinions to ourselves right now, whatever they may be and let our next contract speak for itself. Because I can assure you, with the unity that this pilot group has, we will have said everything that needs to be said when the time comes. And BTW, CHQ is not an ALPA carrier, they are represented by IBT I believe, so all things considered, I think that they probably got the best deal that they could with the Union they had representing them. Instead of insulting their pilot group, maybe we should be starting an ALPA educational campaign to get this pilot group represented by ALPA. And for the record, yes I do think that ALPA could have gotten CHQ a better contract than IBT because they only represent pilots, unlike the IBT.
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I.P. Freley vbmenu_register("postmenu_223460", true);
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Uhhhh... Maintenance?
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Flight Experience: What, me military?
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Ratings: ATP, BE-1900 and SF-340
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Current Position: Pining for the Fjords
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Total Time: 5500+
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Man am I going to love it when all of these sanctimonious ExpJet blowhards don't get the contract that "raises the bar" and we can all slam THEM.

Go ahead, EJ, make a liar out of me. It's easy to slam Mesa/CHQ/whomever, but I don't think you have the cojones... and I look forward to the result.

I think that some EJ pilotos can learn a thing or two from the old "glass houses" thing.

Already salivating in anticipation....
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Captain X vbmenu_register("postmenu_223526", true);
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Engorged Member
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Just out of curiousity's (?) sake -- what was the average % increase in hourly compensation rates alone at both Mesa & CHQ? If it's easier, just let us know for the average longevity of your CAs and FOs.

The reason I'm wondering is b/c I know the both CBAs made tremendous GAINS over YOUR previous contracts.

I agree with what
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[ERJDRVR]

Mr Hat vbmenu_register("postmenu_223411", true);

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Quote:

Knock my contract. Knock my company. I may be a 3rd class citizen to you, but my company treats us all the same. We don't have a "Basement Division" for pilots, FA's or rampers.


Actually, You're not a second class citizen to me, although you obviously believe that you deserve second class citizen pay. Thats the point. You're job is NO different than that of a Continental, American, Delta, Southwest, United, USair pilot. If you are flying jets, you're job is exactly the same, dont you deserve pay that is consumerate with theirs? Jumpseat on a 737 then tell me what the difference is between that and what you do. I dont know what kind of flying you do at CHQ but this week I am going from EWR to BHM to IAH to DSM...overnight then DSM, EWR done. DSM-EWR is blocked to 2:30 minutes although it usually takes 3 hours. Our longest right now is EWR to Kansas City. If we could do transcons, we would, I guarentee it. When I got hired, I flew the BE1900 from CLE to places like FNT, DTW, ERI, PIT... connecting smaller communities to CLE to get on big CAL and go wherever in the world they were going. Now, Im not feeding CAL anymore, instead, I do CAL flying for them. Im not happy about it, CAL flying should be done by CAL pilots but they failed to get a good scope clause that allowed my company to expand to 275 jets with another 100 on option. The industry has changed. These jets are no longer feeding mainline, they are a major part of mainline. They arent "Turbo props without props" so why do they pay like turbo props? Because thats the way they were sold to the major airline pilots of the 90's, "Dont worry, they are just turbo-props without props"
So they took ATR pay and up'ed it to ATR pay if the ATR had 50 seats.....not 737 pay if the 737 had 50 seats. So the farce continues, why? Because we allow it. When these other "regionals" sign contracts that allow them to pay turbo prop pay to jet pilots, they make it extremely difficult for others to break that chain. Our management points to Mesa and says look....and look at CHQ! Why should you be any different?
So why all the anger? Because your contract just made it harder for us to help the rest of our ALPA brothers to break the chain and raise the bar. Like I said, I want fair pay, not the highest pay.

Quote:

Since when do rj crews deserve a mainline payscale?

What "Region" do these "Regional Jets" fly in? They are Jets, the term "regional jets" is a marketing term and its there to make them seem insignificant so they dont have to pay "RJ" crews like they do real airline pilots flying real jets. And it looks like you bought it. We have gate agents who say "Oh yeah we get 3 Express flights and 1 Jet in here nowadays" They dont even acknowlege that the E145 is a Jet!

Looking4Traffic, Nice post. Yes they are laughing at us. All the way to the bank!

And guys, you really need to research you're history. NO SELF RESPECTING ALPA PILOT WOULDNT SAY "I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF OUR NEW CONTRACT"
ALPA is about equal pay for equal work, read it, its there in black and white. Read you're code of ethics and the constitution and bylaws. You also need to read Flying the Line Vol I and II. You're contract is you're contribution to the furthering of our profession and it is you're contribution to you're industry. These concessionary contracts are dragging the rest of us down, and that WAS a concessionary contract. Yes its true that the MAJOR airlines are loosing money, most "regional airlines are not, they are making money hand over fist due to major airline outsourcing their expensive flying to us because we are really inexpensive (because we are paid like McDonalds managers)
Concessionary contracts are really not necessary.

BTW: This misconception needs to stop, there is no such airline as "Continental Express" we are ExpressJet and we are an independant company, we are NOT wholly owned by CAL. Used to be but not anymore. That doesnt mean that we change our expectations.

Also, no need to get nasty, Im not slamming any of you. I just disagree with you and I wish you would see that you are worth much more than 95% of you voted for.

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Flea vbmenu_register("postmenu_223435", true);

Junior Member



Join Date: Sep 2002

Posts: 3



Aircraft Experience: e-145

Flight Experience: c

Ratings: atp

Total Time: 5000

Quote:

Originally posted by jumppilot
I find it funny that most of the people I fly with (CHQ) bitch less than the people on this board who don't even work for us!



You are wrong about that. There are plenty of people on this board that don't work for CHQ that support you, and the piece of garbage you are defending. They are know as Mesa pilots.

Quote:

Originally posted by jumppilot
I think people are losing sight of the big picture. A regional pilot's job is easy. It is ridiculously easy. Making over $50,000/year (3rd year capt.) is quite a bit of money to be making.



This is what you call the big picture?!? You really haven't got a clue do you? Try reading the posts again by Mr. Hat. And, pay attention this time!

The thing about the 95% of CHQ pilots (and ?% of Mesa) is that they know they sold out to the rest of the ALPA group. But, rather than admit that they are panzies, they will defend their actions 'til the end. You guys have to learn that you MUST tow your end of the ALPA rope.

Mr. Hat, Flyr, there is no convincing them.

Peace.

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[ERJDRVR]

BlueCanoe vbmenu_register("postmenu_223233", true);

Smurfy Good


http://forums.flightinfo.com/member.php?u=10750



Join Date: Sep 2003

Posts: 55



Aircraft Experience: Aluminum

Flight Experience: SuperCivvy

Ratings: Olds 88

Current Position: Dumping rear lav

Total Time: >.5

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Why is it that pilots of "Wholly-owned subsidiaries" are bashing?

Let's look at one thing. When you were "Acquired", why weren't you integrated? NWA bought Republic, I don't see any DC-9's running around with "Operated by Republic" on them. I don't see any US Airways 767's with a "Operated by Piedmont". I don't see any AA MD-80's with a "Operated by Reno Airlines" or "Operated by TWA". I don't see any Delta 737-800 (or 727's) out of the MAT at LGA with "Operated by Eastern". Yet I see plenty of "Comair", "ASA", "Eagle" "Continental Express by Express Jet", "Piedmont", "Allegheny", etc.

Do I have to go on? You nay-sayers, who appear all to fly for "Wholly-owned Subsidiaries" (yet I can be wrong, as I'm sure you'll point out), talk of cojones. YOU (yes I'm calling you out, you cheap shot artists) don't have the balls to force integration. You are lowering the bar, if I may say so. We are CHQ/MESA/TSA/SkyW or whoever. You are Delta, USAirways, Continental and American Employees. You allowed your company to create a C scale. If you work for a "wholly-owned subsidiary", you dropped the bar, Chuck.

We should quit our jobs? You should quit yours. Your parent company gives you good money and good bennies (in comparison to other regional operations), because they know most of you will go somewhere else. If you don't leave, you will never get to the other part of the company. They give you hush money, and keep you off the mainline seniority list.

You guys are sad. You did accomplish something, though. You won the race to the bottom. Not of your "peers", but to the bottom of your company. You are doing the same work as other people in similar positions at your company, but are treated as substandard. You will not ever change that. It's too late. At least at the independents, there is one list, one contract.

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[ERJDRVR]

10-12-2003, 12:25

#17
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http://forums.flightinfo.com/report.php?p=223149

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http://forums.flightinfo.com/member.php?u=9783



Join Date: Jun 2003

Posts: 144



Aircraft Experience: C172, M20E, C310, C402, BE1900, EMB145/135 ER LR and XR

Flight Experience: Civilian

Ratings: E145

Current Position: Captain E145

Total Time: 4000

Quote:

I used to be supportive of your negotiations, but now I could care less.


Why bother, you're crappy contract is already signed.

Quote:

I bet my average salary for my career at CHQ will be much higher than at CoEx. How many decades until upgrade at CoEx? Everyone on our current seniority list will probably be captains in 2 years. I'd rather be getting captain pay quickly than FO pay forever.


HA! You JUST caught up with our current contract! It wasnt you're 50 seat pay rates that floored me as much as your 90-100 seat pay. How many seats does a 737-500 have? Do you even know? Why are you less of a pilot that you deserve LESS than HALF what a 737-500 guy makes? You're not! Thats the point, you deserve to be on par with other guys doing the SAME job with the SAME **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** seats for crying out loud! Cant you see that? The 50 seat pay SHOULD be 737 pay interpolated down to 50 seats, not BE1900 pay with 50 seats! We arent even going to get that much but we will at least TRY to get a little closer, the airplane can support it. We arent into destroying our company with excessive pay but we want what is fair! We love our company and we want to be successful however we are sick of being pawns to the rest of the industries "Wage Fare Wars" which is what it has become in the last 5 years.

Quote:

Just hope I don't meet you on an overnight in a hotel bar. Get a life, brother.

THIS guy is going to be a Captain in 2 years? Sheesh, leave the threats out of it and debate like an adult.

Quote:

If you're going to point fingers, where does it stop? Do you point fingers at Airtran, SWA and JetBlue? Or, how about ATA - if memory serves, their 737 pilots don't make as much as their counterparts at United, Airways or Delta.

That is completly different, that's competition. The issue at the "Regional" level is that major airline managements are working together to whipsaw groups against eachother in order to rachet down wages that simply go into the upper managements pockets. They are OUTSOURCING jet flying that SHOULD be at the major (Savings #1) to the LOWEST bidding regional (savings #2) knowing full well that WE know that if we sign off on a lower paying contract, we wont loose our flying. It is a scare tactic pure and simple. Besides, ATA, Airtran, JetBlue and SWA do not get paid NEARLY as low as we do when you compair their pay to other jet pilots pay. I'd also venture to say that most of those guys except Aitran are paid differently than pilots at other carriers so while it appears that their pay is lower if you look simply at hourly wages, they are actually paid industry average pay when you look at other perks such as time and a half for flying over 70 hours (JetBlue) or if you calculate "Trip Pay" to hourly pay (SWA). Plus all the profit sharing and bonuses....you wind up being compairable to the other majors. We at ExpressJet feel the same way, I dont need to be paid the HIGHEST in the industry, I just want whats fair and right now pay at the regionals is not fair. Its not about being better than the CHQ pilots or even the Mesa pilots, its about being on the same page.

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[Britpilot]

So what's your point?

 

[BoilerUP]

Wow, you must have been bored to dredge all that stuff up. But the point is well made...


Now is time for CHQ, Mesa, Mesaba, Skywest and every other airline out there that has been called "whore", "sellout", etc by some of the talking heads on this board to stand up beside their XJT brethren as they fight for the contract they deserve. We will see soon enough how their pilot group votes. Until then, it might be advisable to keep the "I told you so" to a minimum. JMO.

Kill em' with kindness - forgive their sharp tounges, but don't ever forget...

 

[nimtz]

Hmm, someone went to a college where they did not have to make ORGANIZED presentations.

Dude, if you take the time to dig up all these quotes could you at least organize it in a readable fashion. I've seen NYC graffiti that makes more sense then what you've got there. I can't tell (without doing more translation then they spent on the Dead Sea Scrolls) when a XJet guy said something and when somebody countered him/her. I for one was telling our guys to shut-up until we put up, but your posts really do a poor job of conveying what I think you are saying: YOU GOT SERVED SUCKER!

Nice try starting a flame war though. Try watching some playoff baseball next time your bored, it is pretty intense. And whether you will admit it or not I think a very good portion of the reason for our TA being short of our expectations lies in the contracts of our competitors. That is the bottom line whether you will admit it or not. So you know what we all watch our career expectations sink! Hey we made gains in nearly every section of our contract! Everyone is happy then...

 

[jaybird]

And whether you will admit it or not I think a very good portion of the reason for our TA being short of our expectations lies in the contracts of our competitors. That is the bottom line whether you will admit it or not. So you know what we all watch our career expectations sink! Hey we made gains in nearly every section of our contract! Everyone is happy then...

Ohhhh so it's someone elses fault now!

I keep hearing them tell us that they aren't CALEX, Comair, ASA, or Eagle. They are absolutely right. CALEX is more than twice their size. That's nothing against CHQ, that's just a simple fact. We are exclusively with one airline and provide ALL of that airline's Small Jet feed. We have 218 Jets and over 2500 pilots. This gives us much more leverage than the CHQ pilots had over their respective management. So let's just keep our opinions to ourselves right now, whatever they may be and let our next contract speak for itself. Because I can assure you, with the unity that this pilot group has, we will have said everything that needs to be said when the time comes. And BTW, CHQ is not an ALPA carrier, they are represented by IBT I believe, so all things considered, I think that they probably got the best deal that they could with the Union they had representing them.

 

[VABB]

Keep raising the bar. One day, a senior RJ pilot will be making a little more than minimum wage.

 

[Britpilot]

Keep raising the bar. One day, a senior RJ pilot will be making a little more than minimum wage.

Ahh, the creature from sh1t lagoon raises it's fugly head again.

 

[nimtz]

Ohhhh so it's someone elses fault now!

Look pal, I've gone on record many times as saying our people were out of line when they trash talked you guys over your contract and claimed we would do so much better. Perhaps even I said something chest thumping every now and then (over 300 posts I really don't remember but go ahead and find it if you have that much spare time). The simple fact is the management friendly NMB put us in a box with all the other small jet providers when it came time to determine who was being unreasonable at the bargaining table. Management had a simple card to play by whipping out CHQ and Mesa rates and unfortunately that lead to the junk payrates we see today.

You guys can gloat all you want if we vote in this TA, but it is really sad for all of us. I'm sure you are creaming your shorts cause your a jet captain after 18 months, but all I can say is get use to that seat and the 'lucrative' pay/benefits it provides. The sad fact is we have priced ourselves so cheap from 37-99 seats that we will never see our compensation approach being what it should be. All this as we suck-up both flying and jobs from the majors with bigger and still bigger jets. I fear that five years from know we will look back at what Comair made in amazement of what could of been. Collectively we all have lost in the small jet game. That's not something to be gloating about...

 

[aewanabe]

Nimitz: agreed, 100 percent.

CHQ guys/gals... why gloat about this? Remember most of us talking about all the improvements to OUR contract; and feeling somewhat dissatisfied with the payrates, but feeling like it's the best we could do? Now the shoe is on that foot with the X-Jet guys/gals. Sadly, right now it's looking like Comair IS the "glass ceiling" in RJ contracts, and we all know Bedford et. al. will be beating the "competive" bandwagon for the next 2.5 years before we go back into Section 6.

 

[jaybird]

Look pal

Don't call me pal, buddy. It's just frustrating when $hitbags like mctinkle spew their garbage.