Wx requirements to dispatch to the destination

[cessnapilot]

Are both Ceiling and Vis required to be above mins to be ok to dispatch?

121.613 destination must be "at or above authorized landing minimums."

I've worked several places where they only looked at vis... then a friend sent me this...

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/Interpretations/

enter 2007 and search ceiling

 

[30West]

Destination wx is visibility driven. Ceiling is used to derive alternate minimums when one is required.

 

[regionalcap]

Try to copy and paste. Your link produced 230 entries. My ADD kicked in after the 3rd one.

 

[cessnapilot]

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/Interpretations/

Destination wx is visibility driven. Ceiling is used to derive alternate minimums when one is required.

Sorry... I think this is the Link I wanted to attach...
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/Interpretations/

enter 2007 and search ceiling...
"The FAA has determined that the phrase "authorized minimums" in §121.613 refers to both the ceiling and visibility minimums. Although both ceiling and visibility are not specifically stated in § 121.613 ... planning, the FAA makes both ceiling and visibility minimums a specified requirement. "

 

[regionalcap]

Gotcha. This was talked about last year. Type "ceiling requirement" in the search window and you will see the threads.

 

[vprMatrix]

Enjoy.

14 C.F.R. § 121.613 Dispatch or flight release under IFR or over the top.

Except as provided in §121.615, no person may dispatch or release an aircraft for operations under IFR or over-the-top, unless appropriate weather reports or forecasts, or any combination thereof, indicate that the weather conditions will be at or above the authorized minimums at the estimated time of arrival at the airport or airports to which dispatched or released.

Question:
Your question is, "does 'authorized minimums' [in §121.613] mean that both the ceiling (HAT) and visibility values 'will be at or above authorized minimums,' or mean that only . the visibility values 'will be at or above authorized minimums, for the purpose of a Flight Release to an airport under IFR or Over- The-Top?"

The FAA has determined that the phrase "authorized minimums" in §121.613 refers to both the ceiling and visibility minimums. Although both ceiling and visibility are not specifically stated in § 121.613, for flight planning purposes, the FAA requires both. In other FAA rules involving flight planning, the FAA makes both ceiling and visibility minimums a specified requirement. For example, when designating an IFR alternate, § 91. 169(c) states" ... at the estimated time of arrival at the alternate airport, the ceiling and visibility at that airport will be at or above the following weather minima."

In addition, § 121.611, "Dispatch or flight release under VFR," states "[n]o person may dispatch or release an aircraft for VFR operation unless the ceiling and visibility en route, as indicated by available weather reports or forecasts, or any combination thereof, are and will remain at or above applicable VFR minimums .... " The FAA believes requiring, for part 121 dispatch or flight release, thatlevel of safety for each part 121 scheduled flight.

In addition, the FAA has provided legal interpretations to assist operators when reviewing weather forecast information and determining whether or not to dispatch or flight release an aircraft. These interpretations include 1977-20; 1979-24; 1984-16; 1989-28; and 1990-6.

For your information and to assist you, attached are copies of the last two interpretations, 1989-28 and 1990-6.

We trust this interpretation has answered your questions.

This was prepared by BruceGlendening, Attorney, reviewed by Joseph Conte, Manager, Operations Law Branch of the Office of the Chief Counsel and coordinated with Flight Standards Service.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Well, now what?

 

[DXR-Beavis]

This is just the FAA being themselves. Nothing in this interpretation changes the way we do business, but it is confusing.What we must remember is that MDA/DH and ceiling are not the same thing. It is quite rare to have a missed approach when METAR has OVC001 even if it is only a Cat 1. There are a few approaches out there that actually do have a published ceiling minimum, but for the most part, we are given only a DH or MDA. Alternate minimums are handled differently per the C55, but even there we are told..... "Ceiling derived by adding XXXft to the authorized CAT I HAT...." "Visibility derived by adding XXsm to the authorized CAT I landing MINIMUM." Heh heh, or something

 

[cocknbull]

This is just the FAA being themselves. Nothing in this interpretation changes the way we do business, but it is confusing.What we must remember is that MDA/DH and ceiling are not the same thing. It is quite rare to have a missed approach when METAR has OVC001 even if it is only a Cat 1. There are a few approaches out there that actually do have a published ceiling minimum, but for the most part, we are given only a DH or MDA. Alternate minimums are handled differently per the C55, but even there we are told..... "Ceiling derived by adding XXXft to the authorized CAT I HAT...." "Visibility derived by adding XXsm to the authorized CAT I landing MINIMUM." Heh heh, or something

News to me. The only time I have gone missed in the last couple of years shooting CAT 1 ILSs is do to OVC001. I can't shoot the approach if the vis is below landing mins unless the weather just happen to go south after I'm inside the marker.. I guess it is all relative since flight vis will below landing mins if you are still in the clouds at DA.

 

[dispatchguy]

All FSDOs realize that the AGC-200 shmoe is an idiot, and no one has made any airline change their FOM

Visibility ONLY is required in the US unless it specifically states CEILING REQUIRED on the Jepps - which in the US it doesnt anywhere.

Hell, I'll ask them to clarify their own interp - I already have one interp with my name on it - might as well go for a two fer

 

[av8tor19]

This is a tricky question for 121. Our Flight Operations Manual says I need the ceiling and visibilty for DISPATCH. Now the dispatcher can decide whether to use the current report (on flights one hour or less) or he can use the forecast wx on longer flights.

To fly the approach, I only need visibility.