www.183rdpilotsdefensefund.com

[jsoceanlord]

interesting site

 

[TXCAP4228]

I know that this has been addressed tangentially on other threads (like the "go pills" thing), but no one has really come out and asked if anybody think these guys are actually guilty of manslaughter or dereliction.

Anybody want to take a stab at this?

 

[EagleRJ]

As is the case with most aviation accidents, I don't think we know enough about this tragedy to make an informed decision. There were probably mistakes made by all parties involved. As with most blue on blue incidents, it's all too easy to second-guess the decisions of soldiers who are operating in a hostile, complex, confusing environment.

I hope we don't throw the book at these guys just to avoid alienating our neighbors to the north. I would hope that if it had been a RCAF fighter that dropped a weapon on US soldiers, there would be no hard feelings. Accidents do happen.

 

[Draginass]

There are many many factors involved in a friendly fire accident. There's the applicability of ROE and how it was followed. There's intel and info. . . i.e. were the flight told about live-fire exercises in the area. Generally, though, there's plenty of blame for everybody . . . Leadership, supervision, operators, etc.

With the weapons being so deadly, immediate, and long-ranged, it's even more important than ever for there to be good IFF methods or devices. Remember during the Gulf War when a small unit of Brits in an APC got fired upon by U.S. helos.

Multi-national operations make it even more likely to happen. I know the polictical reasons for the Canadians being in the AOR, but it's hard to comprehend the military ones.

Unfortunately military inquests are subject to high degrees of tampering from politicians, especially when other nations are involved.

 

[P3tarbaby]

I think the AF is using these guys as scapegoats to pacify the Canadian government. During times of war, friendly fire incidents happen. In fact I think we lost almost as many soldiers in the gulf war to friendly fire than we did to enemy fire. I can understand if this happened on US soil during a training exercise but these guys were flying a combat mission in hostile territory, saw tracers and thought they were being shot at, which they could have been. No one told them there was a Canadian unit conducting a live fire exercise in the area until it was too late. If these guys get convicted of anything it will be a tragedy and a huge blow to military (and the reserves) moral.

 

[TMMT]

In fact I think we lost almost as many soldiers in the gulf war to friendly fire than we did to enemy fire.

The total was 148 combat dead and 467 wounded. Of those, 35 deaths and 72 injuries were from 'friendly fire'.

 

[P3tarbaby]

TMMT,
Thanks for the numbers.

 

[hobbsmeter]

If convicted I also think it would be a tragedy and put a hurt on morale. I'm also concerened that if convicted then other pilots/crew in hostile situations may second-guess themselves and in my opinion that's dangerous. I hope this works out for everyone involved.