Would you leave a US Major?

[pylut]

Exactly fxbat.
We are SO on the same page. Our situations nearly parallel each other exactly. It's almost spooky isn't it. How all those 15 year Eagle captains are actually going from captain to the street because my company (TWA, lest you mistake me for a SNB) bought stapled and screwed you. Wow it's like looking in a mirror.

Actually dude, on second thought...sorry can't relate.
Don't worry though no flowback coming from this guy. Not interested in your job. don't want it, didn't earn it, doesn't interest me.

Keep up the good work despising aa!
That I can relate to

cheers

 

[embdrvr]

AAFLyer,

I wouldn't leave a job flying an Otter for 30 bucks an hour for Cathay Pacific.
Research the history of the labor-management relationship there.

 

[SWA/FO]

My Fellow Pilots, My info. might have been out of date. I was trying in the mid 90's to get on with Cathay. I called and sent them many documents. By-the-way, the application even has you list your parents, sisters & brothers line of work. It will ask you your religion. Also you will have to send them a photo of yourself.

Anyway, I was talking with a Brit. that worked there and he said they perfer to hire other then Americans. Then I went to an AIR, Inc. show in ATL and met a woman (now working for a sim training facility in PHX) that was Brittish and use to work at Cathay in the hiring department (she is married to a Cathay Pilot) she said "Cathay will not hire Americans" "they will interview Americans but will not hire them". That my friends is my source and it appears to be out of date?

 

[AAflyer]

They seem to hire americans, are certainly interviewing them. Will check it out. Thanks for all the comments.

Jeff, please PM with that info. As for dinner, I will let you know when I up there and would be more than happy to buy. Since the pay reduction I hope you will settle for Apple Bees. Pylut, I will buy you dinner as well, I am just afraid you will probably throw it in my lap. But Iwill still extend the olive branch.

AA

 

[embdrvr]

Last I heard Cathat doesn't use the seniority system to determine upgrade eligibility. So I guess if you're a "company man" you might get to upgrade. Otherwise enjoy the right seat or side saddle for your entire career there. I can't figure out why someone who has 6 years with AA would walk away for Cathay Pacific. Now if we were talking Southwest or Jet Blue I could follow the logic of leaving AA. Plus if Cathay decides they don't like you you then you'll be working as a greeter at WalMart or wearing an orange apron. But hey, I'm sure there are many folks at AA that won't mind moving up a slot so go for it. Have fun in Hong Kong.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Please don't think I'm defending Cathay, but just because they have kept some people from upgrading doesn't mean that it isn't a good company to go to work for. Some people should never be allowed to captain a big jet. I think most of us have flown with someone like that in our career. Unfortunately at U.S. majors they get their chance because their number is up. At Cathay and even at my airline we do our best to keep them from getting hired but they do occasionally slip through the process and it doesn't turn up until later that they have some serious problems. My company tries to help them, but some people are beyond salvage, especially if it is a serious flying skills or CRM issue. So they are given the choice to stay permanent F.O.s or leave. Not sure how Cathay does it, but I find it quite nice ( especially since it worked out for me ) to be judged based on your ability and work performance versus the strict seniority method. If you have confidence in your skills and yourself you shouldn't let the fact that some people are bypassed for upgrade dissuade you from going to Cathay.

For what it's worth, I agree with some of the other posters that it wouldn't be too bright to leave a good job at AA to go to Cathay. I've been a major F.O. and expat captain and I've always said that being an F.O. at a major is better than being a Captain overseas. Being an F.O. overseas is only acceptable at three airlines off the top of my head; Cathay, Emirates, and Dragonair. Possibly the JAL contracts out of Hawaii can be added to that, but I don't know enough about them.

Typhoonpilot

 

[bafanguy]

typhoonpilot,


You mentioned that people are upgraded according to seniority. My experience and understanding is that seniority merely provides you with access to the "opportunity" to attempt upgrade. Once you get inside the Steepturn Academy, your seniority number ceases to exist and you're on your own in the way you mentioned...your individual skills and abilities. No reputable airline will allow anyone to make it to the line as a captain if he can't cut it. There's just too much at stake these days.

Nothing is fair and maybe a seniority system isn't fair ( whatever that means ) in some respects, but it sure removes all the "office politics" as mentioned in the previous posts re Cathay. In a way, having seniority determine upgrade opportunity fulfills the concept of allowing a person to succeed or fail based on his individual ability...which in itself is "fair".

P.S. Have a relative who went from the Canadian AF to Cathay a number of years ago. It started out pretty good, but the working conditions and environment got so bad he took a $100K paycut to get away from it and go someplace else.

 

[center]

A couple of points;

We do hire Americans, we just don't have very many working for us. The majority of the pilot group is British, followed by Australian, followed by Canadian, Kiwi, and Chinese. Many of the US based crews are infact Canadian.

The recent/upcoming interviews in the US are primarily for US based freighter operations.

No, we do not operate on the seniority based system present in the States. Equipment and Scheds are primarily comapny assigned, with "some" imput considered. Upgrades are also primarily determined on company choice. That goes for all upgrades (SO-JFO-FO-SFO and so on), not just command courses.

Cheers,

 

[nitrogen]

Don't leave RA

Don't leave.

You're junior to me and it won't do any good.

Persuade someone more senior to me to leave.

Thanks.

Hey guys and gals,

Have been talking to a few of my friends and family, thought I would ask other pilots out there. Would you leave a US major (AA) and fly over seas (Cathay, actually probably based here in the US).

I am not scheduled to be furloughed, was hired young and have over 6 years with this company. However I am young enough to start over and have a long career.

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

AA

 

[AMRCostUnit]

AAFlyer,

I have 12 years at AA (with 19 more to go unless age 60 changes) and am strongly considering departing the AMR fix for LUV. I look at my time to upgrade here at AA (currently 8 MORE years to BOTTOM reserve) and the comparative payrates to LUV with our cuts last year (went from 777 to 737 FO -- 43% cut) and it is a gamble I am probably willing to take. B Fund, 401K and a little A Fund would leave with me.

Now as far as getting out of aviation, I looked at that too. The only way to really make equivalent money is be in business for yourself and/or in sales. Last year I got involved in the mortgage business and man, if you can put together a network can you make the bones! I am working for a broker and get 50% of what I generate. (which isn't much) He grossed over $600k last year -- at 29 years old and 4 years in the business! I have a connection in a highline auto sales (BMW/MB) where the floor people do $100k. But it is sales. You have to be there and perform to make the money.

I have been looking to buy and turn some foreclosures; good money there but takes a lot of time and effort to prevent buying a lemon. I have been trading option futures and making some good returns but it is risky. And, get this, I talked to a guy who bought 8 (and don't laugh) moonwalkers! You know, those inflatable bounce houses for kids? Well, in my area they rent out for $200/day and he is booked solid for the summer. I laughed until I did the math. If I was not waiting for a LUV interview I probably be in the moonwalk business right now!

All of my engineer neighbors work like dogs day in and day out and don't get ahead. Promotion? 5% more pay and 100% more responsibility is what they get. I say if you are going to work that hard you might as well make the money for yourself instead of for CEO's.

I have been studying many angles since our debacle last year. Very interesting thread. The over-supply of pilots willing to fly for $20/hour (or for FREE out in Oregon as posted previously! Mama Mia!) has hurt our profession badly. Unfortunately the days of the AA DFW Braniff Lease event are long gone.

Reporting from ORD...

 

[Pilotbob3]

What does SNB stand for?

Sky Nazi Bastard

they are also called nAAtive AAmericans or nAAtives for short.

i heard AAsshole is used too.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Re: ".....would you leave a US Major?"


In a heartbeat!!!

PHXFLYR

 

[Neubyfly]

If I were you, I would go to Cathay!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Pilotbob3

Revisionist as ever...SNB started out (as you well know) as Scab Nazi Bastard...unfair, yes, but no different than any emotionally charged slur. There was no struck work, there was no genocide or a call for national socialism, our parents claim us. But don't let the facts cloud the issue...the End is nigh! Repent! Repent!

Rob.

 

[Pilotbob3]

Pilotbob3

Revisionist as ever...SNB started out (as you well know) as Scab Nazi Bastard...unfair, yes, but no different than any emotionally charged slur. There was no struck work, there was no genocide or a call for national socialism, our parents claim us. But don't let the facts cloud the issue...the End is nigh! Repent! Repent!

Rob.

actually, no, i didn't know that Scab was the first word.....thanks for the correction! Hile!

 

[SUPREME NTM]

Even though you are senior to me , I would say, stay at AA.
You would be missing on a lot of fun...Eagle, TWA, APA, a big and happy faamily..
But seriously, if you don't have to live as an expat, stay put at home.
It is fun, at times but it ain't like at home. It is a very important decision to be made.
If you are young, it is one thing. But if you have family or considering starting one, do them a favour...
A friend of mine, currently flying for World, got a summer class date for CX. Right now, he has a good deal (flying MD11s, based at home, decent pay and lots of time off) and he is starting to reflect on the consequences of leaving. Starting as an S/O and being treated like a B----, your only mates would be your collegues, etc...
If it ain't broken, don't F--- with it.
I am telling you this because, I am now doing the expat thing. Not by choice but because I am furloughed. But if and when given the chance to get back to AA, I will be running back.
If you want to leave AA, I would go to SWA, like AMRCostUnit said. Unless it is that bad and you really want out.
But don't think it will paradise there too. It is all the same BS, no matter what airline you go to.
(If you are only looking at money, become a dentist.)
The difference is, you would be at home dealing with it, rather than thousands of miles away and with no protection (Union/laws) to help you if you need it.
Like they said at AA int'l grnd school, it is their country, their rules, their prisons.
But if you want to go, it would help me too...
Just my 2 cents...

Later

 

[AAflyer]

Thanks All,



There were a couple very helpful posts, and a few things I had not thought about.

Thnks again,

AA