Would you go ?

[Webslinger]

I would have to agree with CL60, do your research. Dont be a hero and try to make it nonstop-no matter how many Lear drvrs say you can fly for 5hrs. I flew 35's and 31's for 6 yrs. and have done many trips to the islands. How much fuel does your bird hold? 6238lbs? or do you have a 36? What are your average burns for your engines? Also, how much do you want to land with? Min reserves over the ocean? Not smart. Where is your alternate? Are you legal 135 with your Ops specs. with just one GPS? Do you have life vests and enough rafts with the 50% overflow requirement?

Also, I wouldnt trust Universal or Base ops to tell you it will work. As the others have posted, take the info from these services and compare them to the numbers that you came up with for YOUR airplane. No one knows YOUR bird better than you. I cant tell you how many times one of these services has tried to file me at the wrong alt. or an alt. that would be physically impossible to reach considering current aircraft weight, outside temp ie, ISA and winds. Also, make sure you have the obvious paper work when you go. 91 Private customs sticker-even though your 135, agriculture cards, Gen decs, and maby some tourist cards, and most important- passports. Dont let anyone tell you that you dont need them and that you can get away with using a birth certificate. You will have a bitch of a time trying to get back in the states without one if you dont have a decent customs person.
Also, are all or your Pax. us citizens, if not they will also need to show a visa from their perspective country.

Anyway, just my .02 worth. Hope you have a good and safe trip.
Just make sure to CYA.

 

[LearjetGA]

Thank You

Thank You for all your responses.

First of all, the Bermuda Triangle was a figure of speech, i used it because it summarized pretty good the route that was initially chosen. Shall i remind : Triangle stretches from the Bermudas to Puerto Rico to Miami. No Miss Cleo here, G200.

So here is what happened. The flight was done last week. Our ops manual and ops specs approuve the use of one Gps for long range navigation as long it has been checked against a class 1 navigation facility before leaving mainland.

The weather was clear all along the way. Since i am not the most experienced guy around, i asked for a co-captain, friend of mine who was off that day but still joined me.

One of the concerns i had about flying above the atlantic was first get up to FL410 with a full load of fuel (6238 lbs),and 5 pax with bags. (no need to discuss the FL450, just not possible in these conditions). Second was the fact that if you have a problem, you land in the Bermudas, and then, and that's when it starts to get funny, what do you do if you have a technical there, is there somebody to help. I am not sure about that.

So I explained our passengers the pros and cons and why i chose to take the long route and they agreed that the extra hour was worth it. The Mainland route became an extra asset when one of the pax developed a medical condition (allergy) and we had to land in Miami. During the time that our pax got treated we invited the others to go to diner. When everybody was there and fit to go, we continued our journey and arrived without any further incident to our destination.

 

[CL60]

Relief

LearjetGA,

I'm very happy to hear you took the conservative route and played it safe. Whew! There are already too many "yes" people out here. Good risk management.

Just curious; how would you have addressed the issue of having to descend into RVSM/MNPS airspace if it became necessary? Without the proper RNP you could have been in trouble with the Feds, not to mention the fact that something forced you down there to begin with. I'm assuming that your ops specs approved your over-water route somehow???

Thanks in advance,

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Learjet GA...
Ok understand the triangle thing...my fault
Sounds like you made the safe decision, nothing wrong with that!
just curious...why not just fuel stop in Bermuda and go from there....??
there IS service in Bermuda 24hrs if needed AND airlines and charters close to get your folks outta there if you broke bad, etc....
OH well, glad to hear it went well!

 

[LearjetGA]

We should do this again.

Thanks for all the responses.

I think we could do this more often. Post some real life situations to see what the different opinions are. I, personally, found it very interesting to see a debate between people with tons of experience compared to people with less experience (like myself).

Fly safe
LearjetGA

 

[bigsky]

Excuse my ignorancewith the 135 rules- how far is the alternate from destination? Under our 121 op specs we require 2 hrs fuel for a destination(island) with no alternate specified. It sounds like either way it could get interesting.

 

[FLY.80]

Just a quick question for ya.....

Which pilot was on oxygen for the time above FL350?

I would venture to guess that no one was. This is the most violated regualtion in the book. Something else to consider.

Fly safe

 

[GVFlyer]

Archaic Regulations

Sooner or later we all need to decide that we are in the space shuttle. I don't see them wearing masks in Columbia and the relative value of rho is somewhat less in a vacuum than at 51,000 ft. Even when the Air Force Regs were updated and AFR 60-1 became AFI 11-202 they retained table 6-1 calling for pressure suits above 50,000 feet!

I don't think that current regs reflect the quality and reliability of new technology aircraft. When Bombardier was planning to build their first Challenger that would go above 41,000 ft. (the Global Express) they petitioned the FAA to change this rule. The FAA denied the request. Oddly, when the FAA flies N1 above 41,000 feet or participates in a cert. program for aircraft flying above 41,000 feet, they don't wear a mask themselves.

 

[FL510GV]

Technology

EDM... "tech-cedure" above 40,000 only with AP/AT engaged (GV).

The AF and the FAA need to catch up....

 

[FLY.80]

While I agree that the regualtion requiring oxygen is outdated, the fact of the matter is that it is still there. The person who started this thread was talking alot about the regulations and being able to make the trip. I was merely pointing out that this MUST be taken into account when planning a flight.

No 135 operator should pressure a pilot to fly this trip if it cannot be made safely while adhearing to all FAR's. You cannot pick and choose which rules to follow and which to break.

Fly safe