Would Simcom the Difference?

[jstyle13]

Would Simcom make a Difference?

Question for the masses.

If I were to go to Simcom and plop down the cash for the initial course in something like a King Air 200, do you think a company with a 200 would be more likely to hire me? I know it is expensive for Charter/Corporate to send a new guy/gal to training. Do you think that companies would be more likely to give me a job if I had the Simcom checkout already when I came to seek a job or be willing to hire me after I completed Simcom? With the market the way it is, having any advantage over the next guy seems to be the only way to get a job in avaition.

Thanks

 

[prpjt]

Tough to answer. I really can't think of a situation where it would be worthwhile to spend your own money on training. Here's my reasoning (as misguided as it may be)

1. Charter. If you're hired by a 135 outfit, you will have to complete that company's specific, approved training program per their op specs. Doesn't matter if you completed the 200 initial at Flight Safety the day before, you have to go through their program. Anyway, they should pay for that.

2. Corporate. I don't currently know of any true "Corporate" Operators that would hire a captain at 975 hours. For example,I flew for a Fortune 500 company that operated 7 King Airs and their mins were 3000 total time to be considered.

Some corporate outfits will hire low time into the right seat. They will gladly send you to training and pay for it.

3. Small company. Again, if they are running 2 pilots in a 200, they are probably have it in their training budget to train both pilots. Having just been to initial may make them take a closer look at you, but the chances of that are pretty remote. They will either like you in the interview or not, and if they do, they will gladly pay for your training.

If they are a single pilot operator, my guess is that you would be out of the running due to your total time. I think you would be uninsurable as PIC. Just to give you an example, for me to use a pilot on our King Air as PIC, the mins are 3500 total, 2000 multi, 500 turbine and approved school in the last 12 months. We are only carrying 5 million liability.

4. Individual. Could slip into the right seat, but if they want both pilots to be Simcom trained, they will pay for it. This is a good play at this point in your career if you can find such an operator. Some individuals just want an extra pilot in the front whether they've been to school or not, gives 'em a warm fuzzy. In that situation you would have gotten the job without spending your own money anyway.

Let me end by saying this. If a person came to me applying for a position that had just been to training, I would ask who sent them. If they said they paid for it themselves I would have a tough time continuing the interview. Pilots ply their trade and should be paid for it. Training costs are a part of an aircraft's yearly operating budget. Owners don't buy airplanes to save money, and the ones that are unwilling to pay a crew's training costs are more than likely trying to save in other areas too, such as maintenance. There are people out there that are just not worth flying for.

I guess that's just a long winded way of saying "no"

 

[WrightAvia]

good response prpjt...I just have a?

Let me end by saying this. If a person came to me applying for a position that had just been to training, I would ask who sent them. If they said they paid for it themselves I would have a tough time continuing the interview. Pilots ply their trade and should be paid for it. Training costs are a part of an aircraft's yearly operating budget. Owners don't buy airplanes to save money, and the ones that are unwilling to pay a crew's training costs are more than likely trying to save in other areas too, such as maintenance. There are people out there that are just not worth flying for. I guess that's just a long winded way of saying "no"

What if in the hypothetical situation...a pilot had just sent himself to school. He also had SIGNIFICANT other flight time including pic turbine and pic 135 multi. Then say that during the interview you bring up the question of how they got the Simcom or "type rating" and the guy says he was looking at POSSIBLY professionally contracting part time FO positions and was set up in a corporate entity (LLC) as a contractor. (let's just for hypothetical sake, say that you had several FO positions open and one or two were PART TIME) Would that be still in no catagory?

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

PFT = BAD

 

[cezzna]

Even if you do the training you won't have any experience in the airplane which won't make much more marketable. It's like getting a seaplane rating, you can get it but it won't convince anybody to hire you with no experience. I agree with the above posts that you don't want to come off as a rich brat trying to buy your way in. There are plenty of quality employers out there who will hire and train you when you are ready.

 

[350DRIVER]

j-

I probably would be very skeptical of doing this if I were you. Many good points have been made by the above posters... I think that you are going out on a limb by doing this and without "alot" of experience in the aircraft you may not be very marketable to many 135 flight departments. You possibly will also create a "negative" that you will have to justify during some interview down the line although I don't think this would be a major hurdle to overcome. I would be more concerned that at your total time you may have a problem with the insurance company requirements even if you were to complete some initial ground school...We have all inhouse training and the insurance is very strict about upgrade times... I recently got approved as captain and it took quite some time to get the insurance company to budge from the 3000TT requirement for King Air captain. If I were you I would attempt to get on with a company and let them PAY for the training.

That is alot of money to dish out for a "gamble"..

good luck

3 5 0

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

i agree with insurance...
when i started fly the Be90 it was FO 135 and PIC 91....always had another kingair captain with me. They all had like 5000tt so that met insurance requirments and i had my kingair training plus its multi engine land. all you technically need is a me certificate and HA endorsment.

 

[prpjt]

Busted

WrightAvia, funny you should mention that, since I actually had written the start of a #5.Contract Pilot, but decided not to get into it.I just didn't want to put anything in the post that may encourage someone to jump out and spend 7 grand they didn't have to. (and that very well could be wasted)

In the case you presented, I think I'd ask when that pilot would be available to start. I was speaking more of a guy that hadn't yet passed the 1000 hour mark.

So I don't sound completely discouraging I'll go ahead and post the thought I had on contract piloting. It can be lucrative, I did it for about 3 years. It's not the easiest life, but can be rewarding.

5. Contract Pilot - If you are in a market where you could get several King Air operators to agree UP FRONT to use you as part of their crew on a contract basis (day pilot) it MAY be advantageous to get the training, and market yourself to companies within a 250 or 300 mile radius. In no way would I advocate doing this without prior agreement with several operators. One or two operators just won't give you enough flying to justify it. Also, I really couldn't recomend this route to a low time guy.

If anyone is wondering why I'm posting at 1:45am, I have an 18 day old daughter.

 

[jstyle13]

Elaboration

Thanks for all the replies. The only way I would consider paying myself through Simcom would be if I had some prior agreement with a local company that would hire me upon completion. I understand why everyone is saying no you shouldn't pay for training and just get them to hire you and have them pay for your training. Problem is, no one is really hiring guys like me right now. I've got about 1000/110 with 35 turbine and about 20 pic BE200, which isn't much, but coupled with some formal training might be able to get me in a 2 pilot crew or something like a contract right-seat pilot. I know I don't have a shot at being Capt on a 200, but I would have a shot at mabye getting in a 200 2 man crew or mabye even a 300/350? Thanks for the ideas. I graduate this spring and not having anything as far as job possbilities is kinda depressing. Thanks

Josh

 

[RFtech]

great info guys.