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Would an airline owned and run by a pilot or pilots work?

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mudkow60

mudkow60

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Posts
544
Are there any airlines owned by ex-pilots? If not, with all the apparently "odd" business decisions being made by higher-ups, doesn't this seem like it would be a smart idea?

Reason I ask is that I used to rent airplanes from a place in AZ that was owned by a pilot or pilots (SWA I think). Things seemed to work and be run efficiently and all very pilot friendly.
 
Pilots did try it, once


Called it Kiwi International Airlines; out of EWR; B727s up and down the east coast

Failed miserably.

Pilots should stick to just flying airplanes; I'll stick to just dispatching
 
Would an airline owned and run by a pilot or pilots work?

I'd just love to see one run by non-pilots that worked.

Sled
 
dispatchguy said:
Pilots did try it, once


Called it Kiwi International Airlines; out of EWR; B727s up and down the east coast

Failed miserably.

Pilots should stick to just flying airplanes; I'll stick to just dispatching
Click to expand...

Before Kiwi there was Pride Air, started by ex Continental strikers, 727s, hub KMSY, lasted less than 6 months if I recall.

Never invest with a Pilot or fly with a Doctor.:)
 
Sun Country Airlines in its younger days was started and run by ex Braniff pilots and Flight attendants. Seemed to work great back then (great profit sharing checks), but then they sold to a banker who then sold to Mark travel out of Wis. who ran it into the ground. Now the new Sun Country is out of bankruptcy and is run by a mix of investors which include a few ex Braniff people again. Things seem to be going well again or as well as can be expected in this industry. So it seems that in this case pilots and flight attendants have had a positive hand in the business, but time will tell.
 
How about Frank Borman, Pilot/Astronaut.....

When pilots talk about the airline industry, it's economics and management it's like reading a tabloid.

Pilots fly airplanes incredibly well. And that is about it.
 
A pilot who owns or runs an airline is a businessman first and a pilot second. All of his or her decisions will reflect this fact.
 
How about Juan Trippe, Howard Hughes, Gordon Bethune, and the last guy to run TWA ?


A lot of airlines were started or run at some point by pilots. Some have morphed into other carriers, some have failed, some have succeeeded. A pilot would have a bit more operational knowledge of an airline and may treat the employees better, but he would still need to have a good head for business.



TP
 
I was on my way back from Idaho on a flight from Salt Lake city to DFW on an AA MD-80 and talked with a lady whos husband retired from TWA with 28 years of serivce. He was apart " USA Africa Airways." I was shocked because when i was growning up i lived right next to AFW. My dad worked out there and i remember watching the MD-11's (leased or bought i dont know, but they had 3 of AA's Ex MD-11's) with the new paint making touch and goes. The airline didnt last long, 6 months i think.
 
I believe Joel Hall, the gentleman who started up Chautauqua Airlines in Jamestown, NY in 1973 was a pilot for Allegheny Airlines at the time.

The airline started with service to Pittsburgh and Buffalo (feeding Allegheny) with 2 Beech 99s.
 
:rolleyes: Hahahaha

This thread is funny. We all agree that pilots should stick to flying airplanes. It seems to me that half of most airlines are run by pilots (lets count 'em: my SVP of flight ops, the VP of flight ops, the CP, and all the ACP's runnin around...half the station managers who WANTED to be pilots at some point, not to mention all the tech people that keep my airline current in 20th century technology, and many many more people in charge of something who are ATP's that fly once a bid).

I suppose you could say the CEO, who is technically in charge, is usually not a pilot. And then again neither are the accountants and lawyers who make the decisions for him/her.
 
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Of course the idea would work !! All we have to do is put together a crack management team from the bottomless pit of unrecognized management talent right here on flightinfo.com. Everyone seems to know what airlines should be doing...instead of what they are doing.


The rest would just be details. Oh...almost forgot...let's give 'em HUGE FREAKIN' bonuses and BK-proof pension plans to encourage them to stay with this company rather than jump to another internet forum airline.

The company mission statement would be the John Godfrey Saxe poem, "The Blind Men and the Elephant".

I get to be CEO !!! I get to be CEO !!! 'cuz it was my idea ( and 'cuz I'd be really, really, REALLY good at it ). Let's see, lowcur for CFO, General Lee for COO, Huge Jorgan for VP Inflight Service. And, I'm holding open the position of VP Flt Ops as I may want to do that too. Any other ideas ???
 
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Yes the key to this has been stated. Even if the person running the company is a pilot, he thinks like a manager first and a pilot second. If the CEO flew the line more than a couple times a month he could not do his job.
 
Um....

The reason I posed the question in the first place is that there seems to be a lot of folks in the "industry" keep bitching about their management, their policies, etc etc etc. I was just suggesting that a line run by pilots (and no, not run by pilots that still FLY), but run by folks that know the grass roots, and have business sense to, might sound like a logical solution. That is what I was asking. Same logic why the Marines, the Army, and the police require their pilots to do ground jobs first before moving into the cockpit.


Not a one person commented on the fact that the FBO where I rented in Chandler, AZ that was run by pilots worked with and was very friendly to folks (pilots) that rented from them. Just thought that could translate into something bigger.
 
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mud,


Didn't mean to make light of your legitimate question. I'm sure everyone has had that thought one time or another.

Fact is, the issue is far too complicated for a simple answer. I would "guess" that if it could've been done successfully on any large scale, it would've been done by now.

We can dream, though.
 
Thanks...

Just seems like it MIGHT, POSSIBLY, be something to help the industry.

Speaking as an outsider, I don't actually have any real-world experience in the business (trying to break-in, though). But, if someone asked me to run a helo cargo / tour business, I have my own ideas about how I would do it (and I am pretty cool- heh heh).

'Kow
 
airlines

There have been a bunch, many of which never even got started. Destination Sun is one of those. They failed before certificate.

There was Skybus that also failed as it got its certificate after operating as a 142 public charter.

There was Air South out of Columbia, South Carolina.

There was Sun Jet and the list goes on.

The big problem they have is that they try and address every pilot concern anyone has ever had but the rest of the business escapes them altogether. The lack of appreciation of the difficulties of managing an airline escapes them and that is what is reflected on these boards. Critics we have, solutions, we do not.
 
mudkow60 said:
Are there any airlines owned by ex-pilots? If not, with all the apparently "odd" business decisions being made by higher-ups, doesn't this seem like it would be a smart idea?

Reason I ask is that I used to rent airplanes from a place in AZ that was owned by a pilot or pilots (SWA I think). Things seemed to work and be run efficiently and all very pilot friendly.
Click to expand...


Tom Cooper....Gulfstream International Airlines down in Florida.
 
Just to clarify, Gordon Burthe was a mechnaic then got his license at Piedmount then went to boeing there he became progect manager for the 757 and got typed then went to CAL. Or read "From worst to First"
 
Ceo?

njets how do you know that is bs, have you worked as a CEO? How much did Gordon B. fly when he was performing miracles at CAL? Not much I bet, maybe rode once in a while to meet the crews, see ops, etc. A good CEO has to spend that time with all employees, not just the pilots. That plus his oversight duties would limit his ability to fly on a regular basis. Now if he had the mind set of the Kiwi management and flew the line as a regular pilot you might have different results. Now there was a pilot run airline with one of biggest PFT in the business. $50K stock purchase to get a job as a pilot
 
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When Tom was at EAL his side job was starting then selling airlines. With Gulfstream for some reason he elected to stick it out and run it. Oh well.
 

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