Worst turbulence experienced

[JohnE]

we're all gonna die? obviously she didnt pay attention during her training , about how to keep control during turbulence. if i had yelled out that phrase, i would have been written up by our purser !!! turbulence, that is routine turbulence doesnt bother me, they go along with flying, and being an FA.

BUT!!!!! and this is a big but, CAT definitely can be intimidating! lol!

hit severe turbulence going from LAX to HNL, over the pacific. we were serving refreshments and lunch when they hit. fortunately none of us were seriously hurt, but i had a huge bruise on my knee cap from hitting the trolley
with it. talk about PAIN!!! but it healed nicely and i was back at work in no time. also flying over the grand canyon about a year ago, hit some nasties, and one of the pax had a mild heart attack. he survived, thank God.

all in all turbulence are just something we who fly have to live with when we are working.

Here are some links to the news story: Virigin Atlantic flight from London to Las Vegas...

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,102819,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/28/ustewardess.xml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4759300.stm

Maybe she should carry a parachute with her in her suitcase. Just in case.

 

[avbug]

I rode into SJC as a passenger on XXX a few days ago, and then into BUR. I slept through most of it, but apparently it was rough enough that passengers deplaned and didn't complete the trip. When we got to BUR, passengers seated nearby were talking about it, one was sick, and a few were missing (got off). I tried to stay awake, but there's something about sitting in back that knocks me out like a light every time.

We cracked both wings on one airplane, and our sister aircraft in trail had a flight engineer ejected into the cargo bay on a different drop. I cracked a canopy with my helmet in turbulence once. And got hit hard enough recently that I really thought the wing was coming off. Very, very violent. When you can't read the instruments any more and your vision outside the cockpit is blurred, it's violent. That happens every year, throughout the summer.

Get a few feet from a canyon wall or mountainside in 40+ knot winds and it gets rough. Do it in an aircraft that's already a little on the unstable side, and it gets to be an adventure.

The worst turbulence I've ever encountered was SE of ABQ in a C-130. We made a low downwind run on the lee side of a mountain with a fairly strong wind, and it was violent, and unpleasant. It was on that run that the airpalne behind us lost the flight engineer. The captain in that airplane called for power (which was brought up by the FE, on that run), and nothing happened. He glanced down at the power levers and noted that the FE's hands were gone, and applied the power himself. He then noted that the FE was also gone.

In that operation, the pilots are often busy enough that the FE sets the power, and to do so, he needs to set far forward on his seat and lean across the console to the power levers. In the turbulence, he came out of his seat, hit the overhead planel, and landed behind his seat on the flight deck floor. He then went up, just missed the open overhead hatch, hit the cockpit ceiling by the hatch,and on the way down, missed the flight deck. He hit the stairs down into the cargo bay, and when he hit the cargo bay floor, he wrapped up against the first sling seat post he found, and held on.

I shared a room with him that night, and he looked like he'd been in a bad bar fight. He was pretty sore.

I got my butt kicked on the Dynamite fire two years ago and ended up with retardant all over the top of the airplane. Any time that happens, you either really screwed up, or it was extremely violent. I didn't screw up.

 

[Lostdog65]

Avbug...

Is that when the retardant drops up instead of down??? That's the time to head back to base, eat your cold burger and wait for the air attack to call you back up 30 minutes later saying "it ain't that bad now"!

Eric

 

[avbug]

I came back off a day off and found the airplane dirty (relief crew) with retardant on top, and nobody could explain it to me. I went out on the same fire that day and found out why it got there. Holy cow.

It's one of the few times when they've said "Load and Return," that I've said "NO!"

I got it recently when retardant exited the tank forward out of a SEAT and came back up over the wing from the prop...didn't know that could happen, either. The airplane started shaking really violently and then this cloud of red blew up from in front of the wing and coated the canopy and top of the wings. A series of loud bangs, and I could swear I saw the wing moving. I thought it was separating.

Without the details, someone really familiar with the type seemed to know exactly what I was talking about when I got back to the base. His comment was "at least you'll know next time," and my comment was "there won't be a next time. I'm never going there again."

You might know who it was, but I came off a drop on a fire a few years ago, and a lead was inbound. He asked my assessment of the drop and fire, and I said don't go in there, I think we need to hold off on the airshow for now. He dismissed my comment and said he'd see for himself. He made a pass on my drop, and then came right back to say cancel the airshow. He said he'd just broken his headset when he hit the top of the cockpit. I didn't know that was possible, either, but I gathered it was a DC headset that he broke, and that's not easy.

A few years ago on a different drop, I got complacent because I got in a place where despite having been kicked around all the way to the fire and flying around the fire, I was descending on a fairly smooth groove. The airplane had a beautiful approach to the drop, which was to occur on top of a ridge in a saddle notch, and was to serve as the anchor point for a P-3 that was a few minutes out. A much higher ridge was behind the one I was approaching at a nearly perpendicular angle, with a narrow deep canyon between the two. My intent was to drop in the notch and make a steep right turn to exit.

I planned the descent with the idea that w(h)eather the load went or not, and w(h)eather I got down air or not (lee side of the ride, into the ride, toward the wind, descending rotor air), I would have a good exit. It was going really well until I was close to the target. The bottom fell out. I get slammed hard. I started descending very rapidly, and I saw the ridgeline start rising in the sight picture. With the sudden change I knew I wasn't going to clear the ridge and I began taking stabs at the trigger. I wasn't able to unload it all at once or get a steady pull on the trigger, and I went just over the ridge and got forced down inside the canyon between it and the following mountainside. I rolled a very steep right and exited about 1,200 or 1,400 down inside that canyon. My helmet got slapped off everything in sight, and the retardant ended up down inside the canyon.

The ATGS missed the drop and asked where I went, and then couldn't see the retardant. When I first got forced down I had a taste of what was coming, but it was too late. I had been complacent and planned the drop on the performance I had approaching it, and didn't count on the rotor or the turbulence. The P-3 came on scene, and they assigned him a perpendicular run to tie into where my drop *should* have gone. He asked my assessment, and when I told him, he said he wasn't sure he wanted to do the drop. I was given a return and hold (duh) and he caught up with me a few minutes later. He said I was right, he had jettisoned, and was heading back as quick as he could, too.

When I got back to base, after a long round out of the way route to avoid rapidly building tstorms, I took seven attempts at landing due to crosswinds, and very nearly couldn't move on the runway because I couldn't carry enough power to turn against the wind, and keep the tail down. It was really rough, I couldn't get out of the cockpit both because of the wind and because I couldn't bend my legs. They tied the airplane down with inside...and the worst part was that when the rain hit, the cockpit leaked.

 

[Lostdog65]

On the Picture fire a few years ago outside of Mesa, air attack was all gung ho on getting the retardant down on the east flank. We had a bunch of SEATS and they were being tossed around like a leaf on the wind. Had The French Connection and Phil making drops. Got a little bumpy and the retardant wasn't going where it needed to. (Read...anywhere but down!) I called the airshow when the SEAT that showed up nearly tumbled on the base turn. I told him to punch it and go home...he agreed and beat feet to Payson.

Got back to Mesa and was on the ground for no more than 5 minutes...still in my Nomex...when air attack calls and asks if we can come back. I'd told him earlier when the wind dies down we'll come back. Phil and Jerome heard the call and both shook their heads and said, "Not today boys, not today." Danny gave a gold star on my training record for calling the show, listening to the LAT captains and telling the ATGS where he could stick it!

Wasn't any fun in the Baron either. Got to see Danny's breakfast...twice!

Eric

 

[avbug]

I'm all for calling the show...remember a few years ago after GN was killed in an S-2? At RNO, pilot after pilot stood in a large meeting to say that they knew it was bad, and kept waiting for someone else to call an end to it. Nobody did...including a lead that got rolled over the fire, and then Gary got killed.

There has to be a point when someone says enough. Kudos for making the choice.

It's like the man says...it's only grass and trees.

 

[mcjohn]

Just kind of blew my mind with all that. I can't think of any flying that would be as dangerous.

 

[Lostdog65]

mcjohn...

Yeah...it seems dangerous but of all the flying I've ever done, that was the most fun. Every time we flew, we had to basically do hazard analysis on every run. Everything was mitigated. Most of the stories about people crashing came from the "old days" when a lot of tanker drivers and leads were cowboys. The group of LAT pilots and Leads flying now are a very professional bunch of guys and gals. Yes...accidents do happen and you have to have your sh!t together at 200 agl and 140kt. But I'll tell ya...and avbug would probably agree...it's great flying.

Unfortunately, like in many high risk endeavours, it takes someone dying to change the culture. But the short time I was in the aerial firefighting world, I was flying with some very gifted pilots who had found their niche and did/do a d@mn good job!

Like any job...it can be as rewarding as you make it.

Eric

 

[mcjohn]

Who drops the Smoke Jumpers?

I guess you all knew the folks in the plane that had a wing seperation a few years back. Saw it replayed on the news a good bit. Never did hear anything about the details. What happened? Sorry for the loss.

 

[avbug]

The wing broke.

It's really a long story that you probably don't want to know.

Jumpers are dropped both by contract, and agency aircraft. Who drops whom depends on what local and aircraft it that you're referencing.

 

[learflyer]

I'm reading John Nance's "Fire Flight". You guys might enjoy it. It's about the operations they used trying to extinguish the yellowstone fires back in the early 90's.

 

[Lostdog65]

mcjohn...

I used to drop smokejumpers out of Shorts 330 (actually a C-23A Air Force reject!) Most of the USFS smokejumpers are dropped by in-house aircraft and pilots with Redding being the exception using a Turbine DC3 on contract. Most regions use the Shorts Sherpa, the DC3-TP or the Twin Otter. The BLM uses Otters and Casa's.

Turbulence can be interesting when you have to keep a 20,000 lb plane steady while guys are jumping out of the back, two at a time, while two spotters are trying to look out the door and manage the jumpers. It can be arses and elbows up front while the guys in the back only experience minor bumps and giggles. That's not to say that turb can rock the whole boat. We had a spotter in Redding bust his leg. He was walking forward in the Turbo Doug, with his harness attached to the overhead line when the Doug dropped out. He went up and came down with his leg hitting one of the seats.

(If you're familiar with Northern California, the area east of Mt. Lassen, towards Susanville and the Warner Mountains, you can be in smooth, clear air and, out of nowhere, the big TX knocks you around for a moment!)

Flying jumpers is ovals at 1500 (for round chute's) or 3000 (for square chute's) agl. Dropping cargo is like a tanker or lead run...drop down to 200 to 150 feet agl and call the drop. The spotters chuck the cargo out the door and hopefully you timed your call right so it all went in the jump spot. Like flying on fire in lead or tanker...a very fun way to excercise the privileges of your ratings!

Eric

 

[tonycondon]

I've heard that some of the worst turbulence around is caused by the Appalachians. Kinda surprising considering how much larger the Rockies and Sierras are.

If the wave off the appalachians was that powerful, glider pilots would be using it to do long distance flights, not the sierras or the andes. most guys probably think of the appalachians as those "little mountains" and dont associate that they still contain wave and rotor and the associated turbulence.

 

[wrxpilot]

If the wave off the appalachians was that powerful, glider pilots would be using it to do long distance flights, not the sierras or the andes. most guys probably think of the appalachians as those "little mountains" and dont associate that they still contain wave and rotor and the associated turbulence.

Thanks for the clarification guys, I was a little surprised to hear it when I did.

Avbug/LostDog, amazing stories.

 

[Lostdog65]

Here's a pic of me in the Baron on the Nuttal Complex a couple of years ago. We were protecting the "Pope Scope" east of Mesa. What you don't see is the C-130 MAAFS behind me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/Leadfiveone/MiscPics/nuttall1.jpg

Needless to say, the day before I had shut down the show because I was getting tossed around and rolled on the lee side of this fire which was to the left side of this picture, off the screen.

Eric

 

[RockbrigadePC1]

"Apple became a projectile," that was funny.


My head hit the side window and corner of the ceiling in an Archer between Sioux Falls and Rapid City. It is amazing how fast you can be 200 feet off your altitude and in a 45 degree bank.

 

[av8rbama]

we've had photographers and 40lb film magazines floating around the back before. I had bruises on my hips from the seatbelt on that day, as bad as I had from a t-bone wreck a few years back. the photographer often comes back with a black eye on rough days. 2000 agl in the summer while trying to hold altitude and heading tighter than an ILS at the MM is tough.

speaking of, anyone know where to get custom cargo nets?

 

[Flyerjosh]

If the wave off the appalachians was that powerful, glider pilots would be using it to do long distance flights, not the sierras or the andes. most guys probably think of the appalachians as those "little mountains" and dont associate that they still contain wave and rotor and the associated turbulence.

I think part of the issue is that pilots tend to underestimate the power of the wave that the appalachians create. Your statement proves that point in a way... just because the mountains aren't as big doesn''t mean that the same turbulence doesn't exist, particularly at lower levels (Which you also pointed out). I've seen beautiful standing lenticular formations right around the area that I live/fly from (Roanoke, VA). The difference is that most people in light aircraft that can't fly into the flight levels, tend to be more conservative around the 10000'+ peaks of the Rockies, as opposed to the average 4300-4500 ridges on the east coast.

 

[mcjohn]

I was flying from Roanoke to Asheville at night and I was scared. There is a mountain range from a little north of Grandfather mountain to a little south of Mount Mitchell that is not fun to fly a c152 on the leeward side of. Flight following asked for a pilot report after noticing too many erradic changes in my altitude. This was at night after refueling at Shanadoah Valley airport. As soon as I lifted off it was hell all the way to Asheville. This was my 300nm X-C for commercial so I was scared. It wasn't supposed to go into the night. Penn, MD, VA, to NC. Can't wait to start flying those checks in a Lance around here.

 

[baggage]

another good reason not to go in the mtns.
http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2006/trex.shtml