This place is shrinking. There is ZERO GROWTH get it thru your heads already. Simple FING math. maybe to complicated for some of these Flexjet FKERS. look at the numbers 2 years ago ( pilots, planes ) look at them now. wheres the growth????? Every time they take delivery of a new plane they sell 5 or shut down a fleet. Nextant, X, Legacy. Fire Cabin servers out of seniority and tell them if they talk to the pilots they won't get their severance. made them sign a " will not sue discloser"...
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Word on the street about flex decertification effort...
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From AIN
U.S. Pilot Groups Urge Flexjet Pilots To Keep Union
Pilot groups across the U.S. sent letters urging the pilots at Flexjet and Flight Options—collectively known as OneSky—to vote against a “management supported” decertification effort of their union, IBT Local 1108. These groups included the NetJets Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots (NJASAP), Air Line Pilots Association, Southwest Airlines Pilots Association, Allied Pilots Association, and Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations. The decertification vote begins for OneSky pilots on May 2 and ends May 30.
“Our Flight Options and Flexjet peers owe it to themselves to fully examine the information they receive regarding decertification to parse fact from fiction,” said NJASAP president Pedro Leroux. “Management has everything to gain, and our Flexjet and Flight Options peers have everything to lose, including job security, access to just-cause language in disciplinary matters, and the right to bargain for improvements.”
According to Leroux, pilot groups should preserve their unions because “predatory owners and managers exist, and pilots require an advocate to defend their interests.” He also warned that, if the decertification effort succeeds, “the consequences to our profession will be very damaging and far-reaching.”
Leroux pointed out that more than 90 percent of the commercial aviation workforce is unionized, as “a labor organization can negotiate and demand compliance with a collective bargaining agreement on wages, benefits, and working conditions…Approximately 95,600 professional flight deck crewmembers cannot be wrong.”
U.S. Pilot Groups Urge Flexjet Pilots To Keep Union
Pilot groups across the U.S. sent letters urging the pilots at Flexjet and Flight Options—collectively known as OneSky—to vote against a “management supported” decertification effort of their union, IBT Local 1108. These groups included the NetJets Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots (NJASAP), Air Line Pilots Association, Southwest Airlines Pilots Association, Allied Pilots Association, and Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations. The decertification vote begins for OneSky pilots on May 2 and ends May 30.
“Our Flight Options and Flexjet peers owe it to themselves to fully examine the information they receive regarding decertification to parse fact from fiction,” said NJASAP president Pedro Leroux. “Management has everything to gain, and our Flexjet and Flight Options peers have everything to lose, including job security, access to just-cause language in disciplinary matters, and the right to bargain for improvements.”
According to Leroux, pilot groups should preserve their unions because “predatory owners and managers exist, and pilots require an advocate to defend their interests.” He also warned that, if the decertification effort succeeds, “the consequences to our profession will be very damaging and far-reaching.”
Leroux pointed out that more than 90 percent of the commercial aviation workforce is unionized, as “a labor organization can negotiate and demand compliance with a collective bargaining agreement on wages, benefits, and working conditions…Approximately 95,600 professional flight deck crewmembers cannot be wrong.”
This is disgusting. You are attempting to out members by their real names in order to threaten and intimidate them. This is a blatant violation of the terms of service of this board. Remove this and your other posts immediately.
squawk
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There will be no blackballing. It is illegal, and furthermore, unions do not hire. HR hires. Even if there is a union pilot on the interview board, they cannot ask questions about these matters. FJ pilots will not be unilaterally blackballed because there is no way to differentiate between union and non-union. This should by no means be a part of this decision.
DirtyBeech
The Last Starfighter
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You are misinformed. I was specifically asked why I left FJ on a recent interview. Once by the HR person. And then a moment later by the former NJ’s pilot sitting on the interview board. The implication was clear. They are well aware of what’s going on even if the average 121 line pilot is generally ignorant of the 91k world.
DirtyBeech
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Yup. The first question was “Why did you leave FJ?”. The second question from the former frac pilot was “So why else did you leave FJ?”.
The implication was clear.
Nah. I talked to him this morning. His words were if they want to think it's him, he's already got a target on his back so let him have his fun. Considering he's currently on a rotation flying his ass off, it would be fun to try to have the company prove he was posting from their own cockpits and wifi.
So with his permission, leave it. It just exposes how desperate and thugly their side is. It also prove there is no such thing as a neutral party (as FLFLYR1 claims) anymore. Those who claim it are just snakes in the grass at this point.
A former Flexjet pilot, now at Southwest, said the word is out for pilots to bring in recruits so I don't doubt it.
Speaking of recruitment efforts, for those paying attention to the details in RH's email this morning, by his own words this place is no longer a career destination but an admitted stepping stone. Did you catch it?
I just about fell out of my chair laughing. At least with the slew of grammatical errors in that one we know it was really Rick!
Both Eric and Jon are former Flexjet pilots. There are some here who are still in touch with them. Rumor has it RH's letter is full of lies and half truths. But for anyone who knows him that's not a surprise.
It's also not a surprise he will resort to putting former friends into very uncomfortable positions just to save some face.
"I have had reassurances from all the carriers..." So he has been talking to United, Delta, American, UPS, Alaska, JetBlue and Spirit. And yes, if that is the case, then he is telling you this place is not a career. Rick, maybe you should worry about cancelling this last class because no one showed instead of interfering in this vote.
Kermit_D_Frog
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He is saying "the Union" is behind these threats and intimidations and don't believe a word of it.
Where is this IBT 1108 union communication I missed full of threats and intimidation? Rick loves to embellish. One is many, all day is a few minutes, everyone is two. You know I'm right!
What I do recall seeing is the half dozen or so letters of support from unions representing 100,000 plus pilots. That is what says it all right there.
The fact is no one can say exactly what will happen if this place decertifies but what everyone is saying is they know aviation is a very small community sometimes and if 100,000 pilots are being told by their unions to stand in solidarity with us or it threatens the solidity of their contracts, then yes you better pay attention and guage how that may or may not impinge your future marketability.
GlorifiedCabbie
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So RH is claiming he has friends at all of these carriers and that they are willing to turn their backs on their own rank and file pilots in favor of him and his position to decertify a Union? I have to admit I never met RH, but he really seams like a desperate person that is trying to just hold onto his job. I feel sorry for him.
cougar12
Unite Brothers & Sisters
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Handschuch survived the last company loss to the union. If the union wins again, , I suspect he will be “leaving for a new job opportunity.” Maybe he can get a job from one of his “buddies” at the airlines. Or maybe he will be flying duck $h17 to China since he was so good at shoving it here.
I've been gone from Flex for a year now at an ALPA carrier. I receive the ALPA daily news e-mail every day and yesterday's e-mail contained a headline about the decert effort at Flex. Not only has ALPA, and all the other major unions sent letters of support, ALPA has seen fit to include the news in their daily e-mailer. On top of that, you'd have have to be delusional to think that a union member on the new-hire committee or interview board won't know the history of the decert effort, regardless of how it turns out. The HR folk may not be aware, but the union person will be. I've been told that it's possible that a Felxjetter may not even get an interview when their resume or application is reviewed by the interview board. All it takes is for one member, presumably the union member, of the board to say "no" to either an interview invite or a job offer. The point of this post is to convey the message that actions have consequences. It's just the way it is. Agree with it or not. Here's the article linked to in the ALPA e-mailer. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...s-pilot-groups-urge-flexjet-pilots-keep-union
This needs to be read by every voter. El raton, now that you realize what is at stake, you should be sharing this with everyone on the Legacy fleet.
Why would I lift a finger to help this pos union. It hasn’t done a damn thing for us. The only thing it’s done is make our lives miserable.
This is an example of how bad the 1108 has been for Flex- A moron named Phil is leading a successful decertification drive at Flexjet. If the 1108 has something to offer they wouldn’t be in the position they’re in now. Why do we have to be stuck with the worst union in the industry?
After chatting with friends who work for the airlines, it’s not the threat I thought it would be. The market drives the airlines decision to hire pilots from Flexjet.
I’m not in the Legacy, why would I share anything with them?
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Not sure which airline you are talking to, but Southwest and AA are definitely watching this and it will matter to them.
The market will tell. Maybe alpa or swapa should spend a day in our shoes to understand why the decert, instead of strapping us down with this nightmare.
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Because if maybe you and the other 49% lifted a finger in support you'd have Ricci on the ropes and negotiating from a position of strength instead of hoping that Handschuch and company will ride in on a white horse and save your career. Get over the Teamsters name and stand up for your career. After all, it's just about the name, right?
Their name isn’t the reason the Teamsters are losing support. They failed to produce anything positive. Don’t blame the pilots, blame the 1108 for failing to rally the troops. It’s their job to lead and they failed, so far.
I’ll just ask a simple question, have working conditions improved for the flex pilots since the mcba? Are we better off since the vote? Most of us would say no, we’re not.
DirtyBeech
The Last Starfighter
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And maybe you should view it from their’s. You’re about to take an unprecedented step, a mistake at that with Ken Ricci at the helm, and the airline unions who have fought tooth and nail for years to get the QOL, rules and compensation they now enjoy are watching. Airline management sure as heck didn’t give it to them. Why would they look kindly on someone letting the camel’s nose under the tent?
And who are your other union options? In house? Ok. Figure up the total dues collected by 571 pilots and then tell me how many grievances it would require to bankrupt the union. Now you’re toothless. Who else will represent you? It was investigated and the answer was no one in case you never bothered to check.
Remember the bonus ol’ Ken couldn’t bring himself to pay? Loss of sick time? 401k percentage? Do you like the current operation tempos? See and avoid BS? Two guys doing the same job and getting paid wildly different rates? Have you bothered to read Ken’s book where he plainly states that he intends to keep 80% of his employees underpaid? Is that how you want to live? Sucking up to Ricci and company so that they’ll toss you crumbs? Have you done anything at all other than b**ch from the sidelines in the whole process?
And you’re wrong. The airline unions are watching this closely. I received the ALPA fast read as well. Your acquaintances may think the market will drive the hiring of Flex pilots. There’s only 571 of you. Maybe 2-300 that can or would leave. It’s no skin off their backs to let you rot in Ricci’s world because 200 pilots is a rounding error in their hiring needs.
I too have been gone for nearly a year, and just two days ago received a text from an AK pilot that I haven’t talked to in a few years, and who didn’t know I was gone from Flex. It was not a love note extolling the virtues of Ken Ricc and decert. The unions are already watching, and the rank and file are catching on.
So do what you want, but be ready to own what you do.
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Dirty Squirrel
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Sure it is. I can't begin to tell you how many times guys told me they couldn't get on board because of the name "Teamsters." "If only ALPA would come on board..." So yes, it's the name. I got over it and you should, too. When 49% of the pilots are working against the Union, how do you expect anything positive to be produced? Even still, did you even bother to read all their proposals for a new contract? They were pretty good and you'd probably be working under them if the majority of Flexjet pilots didn't carry water for the company and run out the nine month clock. Between the two of us, I'm the only one that's seen what solidarity and no solidarity can get you during a JCBA procress. Trust me, 90%+ support wins every time versus 51%. You might want to consider it.
DirtyBeech
The Last Starfighter
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I’d also ask who fought the mcba until arbitration was required? You understand that the company, the one you’re counting on for their gracious generosity, didn’t want to give you what you got right?
Why didn’t the airline unions get involved with Flex unionization? Aviation companies unionize. They don’t decert. What’s happening now is unprecedented.
Why didn’t the airline unions get involved with Flex unionization? Aviation companies unionize. They don’t decert. What’s happening now is unprecedented.
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GlorifiedCabbie
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El, you crack me up. Did you ever spend a day under Ricci without the threat of the Union coming to your rescue? BOHICA.
If nothing else will you convince you of what not having a contract does for you, look no further than the FA's that were just let go. And I don't want to hear about their one year severance. Given the choice, I'm sure they'd rather have a job than a year's worth of pay in the bank and on the job hunt again after one or two decades. Meanwhile, junior "cabin servers" are globetrotting around in the G's thinking they've hit the jackpot. Remember Ricci's response to out of seniority furloughs? You just witnessed it with the FA's. And when the Lear fleet goes bye bye and there are no openings in other fleets, they'll probably receive the same fate, regardless of what Handschuch tells you guys. He's not the one making the calls, Ricci is. Remember, in Ricci's world Red Label pilots are protected from furlough, thus, Lear pilots will not be able to displace any of them and if there are no openings in the Phenoms or Challenger 300's, then good luck on your job search, especially with the information that I provided in my earlier post. Not only was Ricci successful in persuading Arbitrator Fishgold to put that furlough protection into the MCBA, that's his stance and MCBA or not, that'll be how he conducts himself. Would you have stood by and allowed Fred Reid and Dave Gross to act this way? Or even Deanna White? Of course not. Grow a backbone and start standing up for yourselves.
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