Woman gets kicked off DL flight after accusing CA of boozing

[pipejockey]

Ok, I think I must disagree. It sounds like the passenger did a good job about discreetly voicing her concerns. What is accomplished by kicking her off the flight? It looks more like an adolescent reaction by the captain - she is no threat.

As pilots we are trained to solve problems while maintaing composure so why the retaliation against a passenger who was doing the same thing?

Just saying it doesn't look good.

If crap like this isn't nipped in the bud, word will spread rapidly, that all a passenger needs to do is to make a false accusation about a pilot, and he gets unceremoniously yanked from his flight. Then more and more of this crap will go on by every other disgruntled traveler who will now take it out on the labor force. She wasn't trained in determining if someone is drunk, and should have kept her mouth shut!! What ever happened to trusting a pilot's judgement. Now we can't even make a move without being allowed to by some perceived higher power.

 

[IBNAV8R]

If crap like this isn't nipped in the bud, word will spread rapidly, that all a passenger needs to do is to make a false accusation about a pilot, and he gets unceremoniously yanked from his flight. Then more and more of this crap will go on by every other disgruntled traveler who will now take it out on the labor force. She wasn't trained in determining if someone is drunk, and should have kept her mouth shut!! What ever happened to trusting a pilot's judgement. Now we can't even make a move without being allowed to by some perceived higher power.

Could you show me the completion certificate for your course in recognizing intoxicated behavior? How about some endorsement or class in administering field sobriety tests? From a single unintended whiff, you can tell the difference between a sani-wipe, mouthwash, bad cologne or vodka?

If I only SUSPECT someone, I am obligated to do something. Yet, my airline gave me no training on this. In fact, it's my a$$ if I don't act. Did the smell go away? Is their a torn towelette wrapper in the trash? Yes, no? Do I discreetly get a second opinion before confronting the crewmember? I have these luxuries. A passenger does not. All he/she can do is mention it to a crewmember, PD, TSA, etc. - which she did.

 

[rumrunner300]

. . . What ever happened to trusting a pilot's judgement. . .

I'm pretty sure there are adequate examples to illustrate the folly of that statement. Moving on.....

I don't have a problem with someone speaking up when they truly have a concern. Once that concern has been addressed, ok press on. However, if she continued to blab about it after the resolution, then boot her. Booting her solely just for saying ANYTHING is simply being petty and childish. Oops, I forgot about the nature of this forum, nevermind.

rr

 

[pipejockey]

Is this a freaking pilot message board where pilots post? Or is it a message board full of pilot haters? I am appalled at the number of people defending the perceived right of a passenger to make a fuss about the competence of the pilots. As if we are not forced to swallow our pride enough on this job (having to go through security, not being given access to our aircraft without gate agent approval, etc etc) now we have to put our tail between our legs and go take a breathalyzer because some ignorant or disgruntled passenger who wants to cause problems, starts accusing us of being drunk.

 

[pipejockey]

Could you show me the completion certificate for your course in recognizing intoxicated behavior? How about some endorsement or class in administering field sobriety tests? From a single unintended whiff, you can tell the difference between a sani-wipe, mouthwash, bad cologne or vodka?

No! Who said I could? I didn't? Thats why I have never accused someone whether a co-worker or passenger of being drunk. If someone can't even walk straight, is falling down, is loud and obnoxious, or not doing as told, then I'll have them removed from the flight for being disorderly or belligerent and unable to follow direction. I WILL NOT accuse them of being drunk. As I said, I am not trained nor do I want to be trained in determining that. Just another responsibility that will be laid at my feet for no greater pay. If someone is a quiet, and cooperative drunk who does what is asked, I have no problem with them back there. They can't be anymore of a safety issue during a potential emergency evacuation or any other issue, than the elderly woman who needs an aisle chair, and the other 3 folks that need wheelchairs after deplaning.

A passenger does not. All he/she can do is mention it to a crewmember, PD, TSA, etc. - which she did.

So you really want to now have to worry about every word you say in ear shot of any passenger and how you say it? Another can of worms is being opened, and once its opened we can't close it back up. Lets talk about BAC levels and what is considered over the limit for us. Well I believe it is .04 in the USA and actually a mere .02 in Britain. Now does anyone know of any studies done on fatigue, and how certain levels of fatigue compare to certain levels of BAC on pilot performance? I can assure everyone that we have all flown so fatigued to the point of having an equivalent BAC level of .08 which is the legal driving limit in most states I believe, but well above the limit for flying. So should passengers now be reporting pilots for looking too tired to fly? After all, flying fatigued to the point of not being able to keep your eyes open I am sure has a far greater effect on a pilots cognition and alertness, than a pilot who has just gotten a solid 8 hours of sleep but has a BAC of .05.
Just wait until they come out with a fatigue level test, then we'll pulled off of our flights every other day.

 

[waveflyer]

Pipe- deep breath brother- you sound like you've been drinking-
if you feel disrespected, maybe you haven't been acting respectable and assume it's automatic w/ a pilot title. I got respect working construction as a teen bc I earned it and have yet to be disrespected on the job- security is reality, not disrespect- same w/ drug- alc tests and stupid pax's - good far outweighs the bad

they can express concern. And the flight can be delayed.
As for me- if my capts been drinking I'll talk to him

This isn't all that controversial- just another socal chic w/ a lawyer who will get paid to shut up

 

[pipejockey]

Pipe- deep breath brother- you sound like you've been drinking-

WATCHA GONNA DOOO BROTHER, WHEN HULKAMANIA RUNS WILD OVER YOOOOU!!

Ahhh, memories of one of my childhood heros! But I tell ya, Hulk Hogan has been wrestling so long, the first time he pinned a guy, they counted it down in Roman Numerals.....I....II....III. Look at him now, he looks like Dog the Pastrami Hunter!:laugh:

if you feel disrespected, maybe you haven't been acting respectable and assume it's automatic w/ a pilot title. I got respect working construction as a teen bc I earned it and have yet to be disrespected on the job- security is reality, not disrespect- same w/ drug- alc tests and stupid pax's - good far outweighs the bad

The only thing automatic with a pilot title these days is total disrespect from the vast majority of gate agent and operations personnel. I really don't know what we ever did to those people, but the contempt is palpable. And boy do they just love to confront us and demand to see our ID's in front of the passengers before they give us approval to proceed to our airplanes so we can do our jobs. The passengers must be saying to themselves..."we're going to be putting our lives in the hands of these guys that aren't even given the authority to go down to their planes on their own without "permission" and "approval" from a gate agent?? What kind of as* backwards command structure is this?"

Amen brother, on you getting respect on your construction job. I also worked construction in my late teens and in my 20's, also drove trucks, and received more respect and was demeaned far less as a 20 something punk as* who thought I knew it all. Not only by my co-workers and customers but by the bosses as well. Now we are made to feel subordinate in front of the passengers to the gate/ops agents and local station management. Very sad, and humiliating and yet another sorry commentary on this miserable profession..errr...I mean J O B!

You say security is a reality? Then why is it only a reality for Pilots and FA's? While every other station personnel is trusted to bypass security. And don't give me that "subject to random screening" BS, that occurs once every other year. I have seen station personnel's kids roaming around beneath the terminals, while I get challenged to show my ID while in full uniform attempting to walk through the gate/ops agents break room. If that is not disrespect, I don't know what is. I couldn't care less if they walk through our crew room. But this is the culture that airline management wants, pitting labor against labor, and while we bicker among ourselves, management continues to steam roll over our careers, turning into mere J O B's.

As for me- if my capts been drinking I'll talk to him

And that is fine I suppose. If any of my crew members have been drinking, I will assume they have arrived to work able to do their jobs adequately. After all, we are all relatively intelligent adults and I am not going to be a babysitter or psychologist for anybody, or keep track of anybody's layover activities. I was raised a rugged individualist, and I take responsibility for my own actions, and expect my coworkers to take responsibility for theirs, and do the right thing. In other words, don't involve me in someone else's problems! Everybody wants to pass the buck these days and play the blame game, but I will have none of it!

 

[bgaviator]

we've actually had this happen like 3 times over the last couple months at our airline. Couple of pilots being drunk accusations, and 1 drug accusation. We took a huge delay the first time it happened....this last time someone made a statement about the pilot being drunk, the woman who made the accusation was actually drunk herself!

 

[Ty Webb]

"Ma'am, if you are accusing me of drinking, you must be intoxicated, and I cannot allow you to be on the aircraft if you are intoxicated. Gather your belongings and proceed up the jetway, where the nice man will rebook you on a later flight".