WOFT...will i make it??

[SkyMutt]

First i would like to say that I'm new to this board and have read some of the post. I must say, there are some knowledgeable people in here and i look forward to the responses that i will be receiving.


I'm 18 years old and currently in college getting my A&P. Once i get out i will persue my helicopter Private Pilot Licence. I wish to join the WOFT program and fly the OH-58D's. Now for the question, with this set up would i have a good chance in getting accepted in the program?? and is the competition tuff for the 58D's??

couple other questions,

How many hours a year will i truly fly in the OH-58D's??

Is being a Warrant Officer helicopter pilot a fun and exciting career to get into or is it going to be a HUGE BITCH SLAP IN THE FACE once i get comfortable with my new surrounding and come to relize that my ass belongs to the the Army for the next 7 years??

 

[Anaconda]

for starters, read this:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18125

next, allow me to introduce you to the search function at the top of the board. do a search for woft, warrant, army, whatever, you will find a number of posts

lastly, as for this:

Is being a Warrant Officer helicopter pilot a fun and exciting career to get into

YES

or is it going to be a HUGE BITCH SLAP IN THE FACE once i get comfortable with my new surrounding and come to relize that my ass belongs to the the Army for the next 7 years??

YES

as for your other questions, personally i think you would be throwing your money away by getting your private helo. unless of course you have the money to burn, i think you would be better off by just getting a private pilot's license (airplane). imho it would look just as good on your resume and still teach you a lot of skills that would fare you well in flight school, e.g., talking on the radio, flight planning, etc.

as long as you do well in flight school, you should have no problem getting OH-58's. in fact, i would bet that most of your classmates would thank you for wanting to fly them so they don't have to.

i can't honestly say how much flight time you would get, but conventional wisdom seems to indicate that a majority of the pilots just get by with a little over their minimums, unless they are in a truly high-speed unit.

on that note, if you are planning on going WOFT for "the flight time", i suggest you look elsewhere. you would probably end up not enjoying it that much as flying takes a serious backseat to just about everything in the army.

good luck...

 

[SkyMutt]

thx for the quick response, i actually tried using the search button, but only managed to come up with some of the information i needed.

What alot of people dont know about the OH-58D's is that this is were the Army is going to pull most of there pilots from to fly the new RAH-66 comanche

at least this is what I've read from a reliable source.

 

[Anaconda]

try searching for the user name "juris". he would occasionally post on here about WOFT. i assume he is deployed now. he also posted quite frequently on www.ufly.com about WOFT as well. you could try there but that site caters to AF/Navy types for the most part.

i would agree with you about your statement regarding the comanche. when, or should i say "IF", the army ever does get the RAH-66, it stands to reason they will fill the ranks from 58 drivers.

this discussion reminds me of a famous aviation quote, i don't know who said it..."never fly the "A" model of anything"...

good advice!

 

[SkyMutt]

I've got one more question,

I know there will be other duties when I'm not flying such as cleaning the crapers or pelling potatoes, but since I got an A&P licence do you think i would be able to assist the maintenance crew instead??

 

[Anaconda]

the only way to officially work in a maint. capacity is to become a maint. pilot, usually after one tour and a few hundred hours of flight time.

of course your platoon leader will have no problem finding plenty of aircraft washes, APU runs (for hours), brake riding, hanger sweeping, tie down and chock patrolling, and maint test flights (.5 flight time for 6 hours of sitting around), etc. for you to do if you can classify such things as maint.

occasionally you run across a platoon leader that finds it necessary to have warrants participate in as many facets of maint. as possible in an effort to assist the crew chiefs (read: cleaning aircraft, assisting in routine inspections) but for the most part the majority of platoon leaders want officers to do officer "stuff" and mechs to turn wrenches. one particular OH-58D LT comes to mind...he just couldn't believe the warrants would actually sit in the office and study aviation topics such as their operators manuals or tactics, when they could be out helping the mechs. count seats. after all, studying is what you do when you get home at night...

i can't say i ran across that many crew chiefs that really wanted us to have a hand in turning wrenches, but that's not say that there aren't a few that wouldn't appreciate it.

your best bet is to parlay your a & p exp. into becoming a maint officer after you get your feet wet. you would have enough to do as a junior warrant.

 

[klhoard]

Bad Memories

Anaconda,

Reading your posts brings back all of the bad memories of flying for the Army and all of the reasons I got out.

I flew for the 82d back in 1987-91 and it sounds like all of the same stuff is still going on now as it was back then.


Some advice for the guy wanting to fly the RAH-66. Do not go on active duty thinking that if you fly the OH-58D you will automatically get to fly an aircraft that is currently a pipe dream. The odd are very good that you will spend an entire career waiting for that. Once this thing comes on line the new battalions will have to be filled just like any other new unit. That means they will pull guys that are available i.e. PCS'ing, in aircraft with excess bodies, ect. for training. Sure the initial cadre will be Scout/Attack guys, but if you are on your first(or second or third) tour and don't know anyone, I can pretty much guarantee that you won't be it. Meanwhile, you will be stuck flying an underpowered, overburdened, POS, attack helicopter wannabe.

Your best bet if your heart is on fire to fly the Comanche is to wait until a Guard or Reserve unit gets them, then apply to that unit. You will know before WOFT that you're going to fly the RAH-66, and you will be able to pursue a civilian flying career without the hassle of active duty (or the many, many months of tent living)

Good luck!!

 

[Andy Neill]

Anaconda said:

this discussion reminds me of a famous aviation quote, i don't know who said it..."never fly the "A" model of anything"...

I believe that was our good friend Yeager.

In the late 80's, it was my career goal to be the first Commanche Squadron Commander. I had a slew of flight time, was on my way to Naval Test Pilot School, and had a good background in flying armament systems on the UH-1, AH-1, H500MD, and OH-58. I guess I'd still be waiting.

 

[SkyMutt]

After all this reading about being an active CWO aviator has gotten me thinking. If i were to join the reserves would i get the same amount of hours then if i were full time???


Iam seriously thinking about just flying for the reserves building up flying time, then apply for a low paying helicopter job to build even more hours so i can fly the high paying jobs 10years down the road. I would be working on helicopters as and A&P to make ends meat and flying every now and then with my private pilot license for more hours.

what do you guys think???

 

[FADECtoBLACK]

Iam seriously thinking about just flying for the reserves building up flying time, then apply for a low paying helicopter job to build even more hours so i can fly the high paying jobs 10years down the road.

I don't think the military is the place to "build up flying time."

I'm applying for Air Force Officer Training School at this time so I am definately not an authority on this. But in my many hours of research on becoming an officer, I have learned that the Armed Services are by no means a stepping stone to a better career in aviation. Seven or ten years (whatever your commitment may be) is more of a suspension bridge than a stepping stone.

Rethink what you're doing or else you will get that B!TCH SLAP TO THE FACE you were speaking of in your original post.

 

[klhoard]

High Paying Helo Career?

<snip>. . .then apply for a low paying helicopter job to build even more hours so i can fly the high paying jobs 10years down the road. . . . <snip>

Are you referring to a "high paying" helicopter job? I'm not sure such an animal exists. There are too many ex-Warrant Officers out there with a couple thousand hours night vision goggle and instrument time that will step into those very few jobs.

Your best bet is to go with a Reserve or Guard unit. You will know what helicopter you will fly before WOFT. You will not have the active duty committment. You will get the same (low) number of hours each year as the active duty guys. Then. . . listen to me now. . . .

GO TO COLLEGE AND GET YOUR BACHELORS DEGREE!!

Use the Guard / Reserve educational benefits to pay for it. Then once you get your BS degree, apply to an Air Force Guard / Reserve unit to build fixed wing jet time. Not only will you build time, you will get those valuable contacts that lead to the "high paying" job you are seeking.

I've been on both sides of the fence. You can PM me if you want and I can give you my $0.02.

Good Luck!!

 

[SkyMutt]

How hard is it to get a slot to fly choppers in the Guard?? is it more competitive than a slot for active duty??

 

[avbug]

As an aside, from personal sad experience, I second the A-model comment...

 

[klhoard]

Guard / Reserve Helos

There is a thread titled "Army Aviator or Crew Chief" on this board. It appears that it was started by an officer in the NG / Reserve who is trying to fill slots in his units. Give him a PM and I'm sure he can set you up.

 

[weekendwarrior]

I am currently in flight school at Fort Rucker. I am in the Arizona Army National Guard, and will be flying AH-64D's when I am done. The previous poster mentioned that the guard is the way to go. I tend to agree. It is competative, but if you have your head on straight, do well in school, and get some good recommendations from your commander, you will make it.

In the guard, you have to go to basic training, AIT, and serve a year enlisted before you are eligable for flight school. What I would do if I was in your shoes, is go in the guard, get an MOS that you like (aviation can't hurt, but I was in Artillery) do a couple of years in the unit and make some rank. Have the guard pay for college (you don't need a degree for the WOFT program, but some college shows that you have the desire to learn and succeed) and put in your packet with some letters of recommendation, and you got it. Trust me, if me being the oldest flight student in my class at 31 years old, you being young and motivated should not have any problem. Flight experience helps, too.

Alot of guys who I am currently flying with that are regular army, are starting to become envious, that I will go home in 6 months, and then fly on the weekends and still get some good flight time. 120 hours/year for part time weekend flying isn't bad. And since our unit is now fielding the Longbow Apaches, I'll be flying the state of the art hardware without the daily commitment of the Army.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Anaconda]

In the guard, you have to go to basic training, AIT, and serve a year enlisted before you are eligable for flight school.

i've never heard that quoted as official policy before. if that is what your unit told you, it must be their rules. of course, that doesn't mean it won't make the process easier as it's no secret that a lot of guard units like to hire from within.

regarding those "high paying" helo jobs...if anyone knows where they are, please feel free to let me know...

 

[weekendwarrior]

Maybe it is not official policy. I sure hope it is, though because I waited a year before I started the packet process!

I have not heard of anyone in Arizona anyway going "High School to Flight School" Everyone had to have an MOS first. I do recall seeing it on paper somewhere, so maybe it was a state run policy. Not sure.

 

[klhoard]

"High School to Flight School"

The "HS to FS program" is only a cute name. I went to WOFT when I was 19 and no college. I had a couple classmates that were 17. At the time there were three prerequisites to the program:

1: US Citizen (we had a naturalized WOC from USSR in 1987)
2: High School Diploma
3: 17 years old

Now, those were (and may still be) the minimums to go to the WOFT program. However, there is a phenomenom called "Supply and Demand" that is at work here in this country that is artificially inflating the minimum requirements to get in.

During Viet Nam, there were many, many 17 year old W.O.'s flying Huey's and Huey gunships in Southeast Asia getting shot at and killing "Gooks" on a daily basis before they had a driver's licence here in the U.S. In fact, if you ever get a look at the syllabus for the WOFT program, you will see that it is specifically written and certified for the 17 year old recruit fresh out of high school.

So.. . . let's fast forward to today's environment. The economy is bad, military retention across the board is at an all time high, flying jobs are very scarce - ergo, now the US Army can "up" the mins to go to WOFT. However, don't think for a second that if the classes at Mother Rucker were in danger of going unfilled that the college credit "requirement" would quickly go away. Also, when you get to Rucker, you will see a couple 17 year old WOC's with no college. Just ask them what rank their father is. . . .

The Guard. . . several posters have already talked about the advantages of joining a Guard unit. The true requirements for a Guard unit are the same as for Active duty. However, the same forces act there but are more acute - basically the commander's drawer is overflowing with applications. Therefore, he can be very selective with who he asks to join his unit, and what hoops he can make them jump through before going to WOFT. The one year enlistment is not an Army requirement, it is a local unit requirement and serves a couple purposes.

First, it is there because they can get away with it. If they were hurting for pilots, that would go away fast. Another purpose (and this may not be all bad), is that they get a year to look at you and make sure you're not a POS before investing the big bucks in you and wasting a pilot slot. Remember that a Guard unit is stuck (more or less) with you for life. Active duty can make you "go away" or at least tolerate you until you PCS (transfer).

Good luck, and keep applying!!