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Win for Jetblue pilots

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Smarta$$ said:
But, assuming the pilots win, and the airbus gets a huge raise, how do we obtain reasonable parity between the E90 and the bus. So the bus gets a huge raise, and then if they try and raise E90 pay to 90% parity, they will just get sued again....

So really, 3A pilots are DEMANDING that E90 pay remain low. Or be sued.
Click to expand...

No, there are a number of ways around this problem.

1) The arbitrator finds against the pilots. No harm, no foul, the pay scales don't change. (The pilots have already won the right to bring collective cases before an arbitrator though, so it has already been worth the trouble in my opinion.)

2) The arbitrator says back pay is due, but the pay scales going forward don't change. Dunno how he could arrive at this, but it's a possibility. Same result as 1.

3) The arbitrator orders a new pay scale for 3A people, but JetBlue doesn't change the scale for anyone else. E190 pay and non-participant 320 pay then remains tied to Airbus peer set industry average (PSIA) as it is now and it floats up with the industry. Within a few years PSIA catches up to the 3A pay scale (it's within 10% now) and everyone is back on the same pay scale. I consider this the most likely scenario if the pilots win the arbitration.

4) JetBlue embraces the spirit of the arbitrator's decision and raises all A320 pay to the 2007 3A pay scale. That would decouple the 190 from the 320 and pay only 80-85% of 320 pay. In a few years, PSIA catches up as in scenario 3 and the 190 is recoupled to the 320 at 90%.

5) JetBlue rewrites 3A to match their stated intent, and includes the rewrite with other contract language that makes it too good to refuse, so everyone signs it. This enables future 190 pay scales to catch up without triggering another 3A payout.

6) JetBlue doesn't change year 1 pay for any seat until PSIA catches up, while still keeping year 2+ up to date. This fixes everyone's pay without triggering 3A again.

I'm sure others are out there, but I came up with this right off the top of my head. If you look at the actual language, there's nothing there that locks in a permanent B-scale or underclass and plenty of ways around it. JetBlue's problem was ignoring a number of pilots who asked questions about 3A for years and were systematically and officially ignored. I'm pretty sure they're listening now.
 
Smarta$$ keep in mind some of the biggest BoB's/ANTI-ALPA pilots at Jetblue are on the 3A list. Blue Bayou, who lurks and criticizes everything CBA related, is on the list. Plain and simple Jetblue violated our PEA for the nth time but this time around we finally have the means to fight back.

As someone else mentioned you can use the 3A money to pay your legal fees when we are let go 1 year after the acquisition.
http://www.smallcapnetwork.com/JetB...L-LCC/s/via/3420/article/view/p/mid/1/id/798/
 
Blue Dude said:
No, there are a number of ways around this problem.

1) The arbitrator finds against the pilots. No harm, no foul, the pay scales don't change. (The pilots have already won the right to bring collective cases before an arbitrator though, so it has already been worth the trouble in my opinion.)

2) The arbitrator says back pay is due, but the pay scales going forward don't change. Dunno how he could arrive at this, but it's a possibility. Same result as 1.

3) The arbitrator orders a new pay scale for 3A people, but JetBlue doesn't change the scale for anyone else. E190 pay and non-participant 320 pay then remains tied to Airbus peer set industry average (PSIA) as it is now and it floats up with the industry. Within a few years PSIA catches up to the 3A pay scale (it's within 10% now) and everyone is back on the same pay scale. I consider this the most likely scenario if the pilots win the arbitration.

4) JetBlue embraces the spirit of the arbitrator's decision and raises all A320 pay to the 2007 3A pay scale. That would decouple the 190 from the 320 and pay only 80-85% of 320 pay. In a few years, PSIA catches up as in scenario 3 and the 190 is recoupled to the 320 at 90%.

5) JetBlue rewrites 3A to match their stated intent, and includes the rewrite with other contract language that makes it too good to refuse, so everyone signs it. This enables future 190 pay scales to catch up without triggering another 3A payout.

6) JetBlue doesn't change year 1 pay for any seat until PSIA catches up, while still keeping year 2+ up to date. This fixes everyone's pay without triggering 3A again.

I'm sure others are out there, but I came up with this right off the top of my head. If you look at the actual language, there's nothing there that locks in a permanent B-scale or underclass and plenty of ways around it. JetBlue's problem was ignoring a number of pilots who asked questions about 3A for years and were systematically and officially ignored. I'm pretty sure they're listening now.
Click to expand...


I envision number 4 to be most likely. I'm on the 190, so back pay only..........but I just want to see us WIN something.

CD
 
Bluejob said:
The lawsuit. Over 4 years, but the pilots won.
Click to expand...

I tried to skim through this thread to figure out a dollar amount you were suing for. What percentage or dollar amount are the airbus pilots expecting? Is there some sort of lump sum retro and then raise going forward? All I've seen so far is that bus pilots want the same percentage raise as the 190 pilots.
 
What's the consensus? I don't log into there as I get too cranked up about things.
 
Smarta$$ said:
Ok, I get it. You want money by any means necessary. And you have had many broken promises and lost some pay and benefits to pay for other pay issues within your pilot group.

I am NOT a blue tampon. Period. However, how can the company ever bring E90 pay to parity with the airbus? You will sue them again if they try, and you probably won't sign a PEA amendment that allows them to bring pay on the E90 up to parity, just to stick it to them...

So, in typical pilot fashion, as long as you get yours, you don't care.

Yeah, you can tell the story of how the company introduced the pay rates artificially low, and that it is their fault the rates were so low. Fine, but you are basically mandating that the rates remain artificailly low which only hurts hundreds of your own pilots. Not that you care. And many of those pilots are NOT the nod-your-head and worship at the JB alter types, like myself. But again you don't care.

You can tell the stories about simply wanting them to honor the contract, but the truth is you want MONEY. No matter what.

So what is the go-forward compromise that you (and your buddies) will accept to make sure there is not a permenant second class B scale at JetBlue?
Click to expand...
It was airbus pilots that proved to leadership the PSIA formula of 90/65 and your are benefiting from those rates now because of airbus pilots on the PCRB.

It is the company now that points to current Jetblue E190 rates and compares them to the industry E190 rates and says jetblue E190 pilots are are over compensated. AirBus pilots on the PVC (not a single E190 pilot) keeps pointing to the PSIA formula of category 1, 2 and 3 Aircrafts (established by the all airbus PCRB) not A320 to A320 comparisons or E190 to E190 comparisons.

It is my under standing that ALL 3A pilots under contract going forward get the bump.. That means A320 and E190 get the 26.7%. You were not under contract before 2007. Your bitching about Airbus pilots vs E190 when your beef is really you were hired to late. The dividing line is NOT Airbus pilot v E190 pilots it is pre 2007 hire and post 2007 hire. There are 1100 pilots hired AFTER 2007 and they are all NOT E190 pilots.

They are jetblue pilots.
 
Last edited:
CesnaCaptn said:
I tried to skim through this thread to figure out a dollar amount you were suing for. What percentage or dollar amount are the airbus pilots expecting? Is there some sort of lump sum retro and then raise going forward? All I've seen so far is that bus pilots want the same percentage raise as the 190 pilots.
Click to expand...

Should be big $$$ but in the end it will be pennies on the dollar
 
Splert said:
It is my under standing that ALL 3A pilots under contract going forward get the bump.. That means A320 and E190 get the 26.7%. You were not under contract before 2007. Your bitching about Airbus pilots vs E190 when your beef is really you were hired to late. The dividing line is NOT Airbus pilot v E190 pilots it is pre 2007 hire and post 2007 hire. There are 1100 pilots hired AFTER 2007 and they are all NOT E190 pilots.
Click to expand...

My head hurts just reading this. What a frigging mess.
 
Although not part of 3A what I like about the decision is that it calls into question JB Legal's judgement on what is and/or is not valid in the PEA.

So, when they tell us that "Yes, you have seniority list integration protections provided for under McCaskill-Bond" we can now point out how very wrong they were about 3A and that no one should take their word for it.

Just an example. I think this can severly cripple the credibility of their propaganda press releases, if it is played correctly.
 
kommutrdog said:
Although not part of 3A what I like about the decision is that it calls into question JB Legal's judgement on what is and/or is not valid in the PEA.

So, when they tell us that "Yes, you have seniority list integration protections provided for under McCaskill-Bond" we can now point out how very wrong they were about 3A and that no one should take their word for it.

Just an example. I think this can severly cripple the credibility of their propaganda press releases, if it is played correctly.
Click to expand...

This post should be read by all the no voters/BoB types.

Best post of the year in my view.
 
From the SEC 8-K filing on May 28, 2013.
>>>

Item 7.01. Regulation FD.


As previously disclosed in our periodic filings, a group of current and former pilots commenced arbitration in a base pay dispute related to compensation under their Pilot Employment Agreements (PEA). The arbitrator issued his decision yesterday, on May 28, 2013, denying the claims from 2009, but determining that the 2007 pay adjustments for certain pilots triggered a provision of the PEA under his interpretation of the agreement. The Company is evaluating the decision and next steps. ​
 

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