Will United Survive?

[hopeful]

The problem with UAL is not 100% related to labor costs like you would like to think. Poor management is our problem. Cut labor to nothing and we still have a f'ed up airline. Our management is pathetic and labor costs are not the cause, just the result. We are not going to make pennies on the dollar while management is making millions on our backs. I agree it is a give or take world, but our management is the worst. They have driven us into an oblivion. We took a 29% pay cut and you think that helps? No. We could take a 95% pay cut and UAL is still not going to be healthy. Poor management. Simple as that.

 

[A4Forever]

Bally.. Boy are you right. If it hadn't been for those lousy Unions, all pilots would be working 90 hrs a week for peanuts and loving every minute of it! I don't know where you have been for the past 50 years, but managment hasn't given out pay raises and benefits like medical, retirement, ect because they love the employees. Have unions been unrealistic at times? Probably so. But you don't make what you make today because you deserve it. Some where along the way a union pilot set a precedent for you. Better thank them for what you have today. How many pilots at UAL make 300K/yr? Out of 9000 pilots there, they have (or had) about 300 747-400 capts who are the highest paid, and they don't make that much. As for the flight attendents making a career out of their jobs, you can blame the unions who said you couldn't discriminate against married or older F/As. If it hadn't for equal rights, those women would have had to quit at 35 or when they got married. Can you believe the nerve of the unions to push for equal rights? And to pay a flight attendant who is a single mother of 2 with 30 years of senority 50K for working 18 days a month is outrageous! As I said, you are right. Unions have ruined everything!

 

[Bally]

Points well taken. I overgeneralized by saying that the labor unions at UAL are 100% to blame. They are surely not. Only about 80%. The person who thinks I am an idiot. Come out of your union cave and read something other than the montra from your union. I grew up in Detroit with both parents in the UAW. I am for unions. Yours however is joke.

With all due repsect, you need a larger pay cut than 29%. Having two kids does not "entitle" someone to pay greater than the job is worth. Difficult concept for many union members to understand.

The comments from Networ-King were outstanding. The responability of the pilot is without huge. The reality is that business must make a profit, and the sumation of the cost elements on the P & L statement need to be less than the revenues.

Nighty Night

 

[Midnight Mike]

Will United survive? I hope they do, if anything happened to United
plenty of people would be out of a job. TWA was in & out of bankruptcy
for years, so United should be around for a while.

There is plenty of blame to go around for the crisis at United, the blame is to
be shared equally.
It was the employees that scared the passengers away with the summer of 2000
work slow down and insisted on a very large pay raise.
It was the Union that forced the company give the employees a 29% pay raise.
It was managment that agreed to give the employees the 29% pay raise.
It was the employees who did not listen to management when warnings were given
as to the financial health of the company.
It was managment that did not speak loud enough and force the employees to listen.
It was the employees that fought against pay cuts, and perhaps was one of the
reasons that United did not receive the loan.
It was the employees that did not like United owning hotels and rental car companies
and broke up a very powerfull company.
It was management that did not try hard enough to stop the break up.

There is no one reason for this failure, and it took many years, perhaps
we can start a new topic, "What does United Airlines need to do to survive?"

Mike

 

[P3-Adub]

Chicken Buzzards !

Never seen so many pilots standing around jerking off at someone elses suffering ! Time will tell. I was not around when TWA and Continental were in the dumper, was there this much bloodsucking going on then ?

Did I miss the jackass 101 class somewhere along the line ? I suppose that some of you would be happy to see 80,000 folks lose their jobs ? Just remember, it might be you some day !


Good luck !

 

[100LL... Again!]

The only thing that can save a company that far down financially is the following:


#1
Completely new management. Even if the old team could do it, they are not trusted much by the employees. That alone is FATAL.

#2
An attitude of emergency recovery among the employees.
Give 100% every day - even if you think management won't recognize or reward it. You wait for that.. you're doomed.

Basically, you have to love your job more than you hate management.

 

[120% Torque]

I think one must be careful to distinguish between the so called "evils" of having a Union and the evils of greed. Is money evil? Money can be used for good or evil the same as a Union can be used for justifiable advancement in ones workplace, work rules, safety, etc or it can be used to strong arm the company to give up too much. I think it is imprortant to point out that without unions a pilots quality of life would be much lower and chances are we wouldn't have the level of safety we enjoy today.

 

[WhiteCloud]

There is plenty of blame to go around for the crisis at United, the blame is to
be shared equally.

Wasn't there a big deal a few years ago about the Employee/Owners of UAL? I thought the major Stockholders were/are the pilots and other employees. Ziggy1

 

[KDA or DEATH]

Fuggedaboudit....

...Low-cost/low-schmost , This-that-and-the Otherthing, economic recovery, fuel prices, or perhaps the Mother Mary being sighted in a UAL tail logo...All speculation and guess work for Industry Klowns.

Read:

Aviation Week and Space Technology / Jan. 16th issue.

3-4 articles, spanning approx. 6 pages, all address UAL's "Marching Orders" as requires financial performance set forth by their Debtors-in-Possession.

Failure to meet these (impossible) caveats financially will lead to immediate liquidation for UAL.

The following seems obvious:

Realizing a HOPELESS situation... Management (after being turned down for cash by the ATSB) has BOUGHT TIME to CLEAN UP THEIR OWN HOUSE.... via Debtor-in-Possession Financing.

The 4 banks who put forth the 1.5 Bil to operate in Bankruptcy, and who hold the caveats to instantaneously drive UAL into Chapter 7 (liquidation) know two things:

1) Survive: WE win.

2) Fail: WE WIN BIG!!!

Sounds like a good bet to me....

Before you folks begin to flame me...Read the article so we can have an intelligent discussion, please.

I hope UAL makes it, but the second coming of "JC" Himself will probably happen sooner.

YKW

 

[Publishers]

Switch

Imagine if we let some of these bankers fly aircraft,

Well that is how scary it is when pilots talk about business.