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Will they strike?

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Tooslow

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Posts
324
Judge Approves End of United Pension Plans
Tuesday May 10, 6:47 pm ET
By Dave Carpenter, AP Business Writer Judge OKs Termination of United Pension Plans, Clearing Way for Largest U.S. Pension Default



CHICAGO (AP) -- A federal bankruptcy judge approved United Airlines' plan to terminate its employees' pension plans Tuesday, clearing the way for the largest corporate-pension default in American history.

http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12513i6....com/?engine=yahoo&keyword=300*250+02014+newsThe ruling, which carries broad implications for U.S. airlines and their workers, shifts responsibility for United's four defined-benefit plans to the government's pension agency.

That will save cash-strapped United an estimated $645 million a year, part of the $2 billion in annual savings it says it needs to line up enough financing to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy as soon as this fall.

But the cost will be painful to its employees, who stand to lose thousands of dollars annually off their pensions when they are assumed by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.

The PBGC, the government's pension insurer, initially opposed United's plan. But it agreed to drop that resistance last month in exchange for up to $1.5 billion in notes and convertible stock in a reorganized UAL Corp., United's holding company.

United's pensions are underfunded by an estimated $9.8 billion, of which the PBGC would guarantee only about $5 billion. The previous largest U.S. pension default was Bethlehem Steel's $3.6 billion in underfunding in 2002.
 
God I hope so.
 
What else have they got to lose? The good ol' boys club at UAL is probably having an invite only party at the moment, sippin' wine and giving each other raises and bonuses.
 
I wouldnt be surprised to see a ton a sick calls to start coming in with a letter from a doctor saying they are to unstable to fly which will allow them to keep calling in sick with UAL notbeing able to do anything, then while this sick time is being used they look for a new job that will pay the same now after all the pay cuts they have taken, soon there after you will see 100's of FA quiting!!!!!!!!! enough to disrupt UAL service
 
ThisistheDream said:
I wouldnt be surprised to see a ton a sick calls to start coming in with a letter from a doctor saying they are to unstable to fly which will allow them to keep calling in sick with UAL notbeing able to do anything, then while this sick time is being used they look for a new job that will pay the same now after all the pay cuts they have taken, soon there after you will see 100's of FA quiting!!!!!!!!! enough to disrupt UAL service


I saw a UAL FA losing it at the employee bus stop at ORD. She had missed the bus and had to wait 10 more minutes for the next bus. She was swearing up and down about how she was "done with this". Having to wait ten more minutes isn't that big of a deal so obviously the stress of all this is taking a big toll on morale (yah, like it hadn't already ;))
 
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good luck to our brothers and sisters at UAL...everyone else who wants to continue flying for a living - start saving your pennies so you don't have to depend on your company or Walmart the morning after your 60th b-day.


Sadly...the UAL FA wasn't stressed - that's UAL SOP for FA behavior (and mandated towards pax). No cheap shot - just observations over the many miles.
 
this is the worst thing that i have heard from an airline yet. I think everyone flying commercially should start looking for other employment. I know i have started a "part time" job myself. this isnt localized fellas, its paving the road for the future of the industry. I pray for all with little one's to support. The majority of employees flying these things are too good of employees and people to be treated this way. F--- the company at this point.
 
Airways did this....

SlapShot said:
Wonder if Airways is next.[/QUOTE

two years ago.

These words of advice: You better get into flying or stay in flying for the love of flying; not because of the big money.
 
Erfly,

Why so anxious to see guys who spent an entire carreer building a retirement get it stolen from them? This isn't funny. It's a shame at best.
 
FlyComAirJets said:
Sad to say, EVERY airline with a defined benefit plan is next.

I know it is a sad state of affairs, but.......

Now every major airline pilot can expect to have the same retirement program that everyone else in the U.S. has, except for all the government employees.

It's called a 401K.

I know this is a hard concept to follow for those who have never worked in the private sector before where results are expected. (i reference Ghostbusters, Akroyd)
 
Wow I may have to change my bet of next airline to fold from USAir to United if they do walk. Seriously I do wish everyone the best, I don't want to see anyone loose thier livelyhood. Though I could make an exception for some of these chuckleheads running the show.
 
svcta said:
Erfly,

Why so anxious to see guys who spent an entire carreer building a retirement get it stolen from them? This isn't funny. It's a shame at best.

I'm not. This sucks for United and all it's employees. I'm not real sure how my post got misinterpreted. I don't even work for the company and I'm pissed that Tilton gets a guaranteed 4.5 million dollar pension. I sincerely hope for the best for each and every one of United's employees. They've been put through hell and it doesn't seem to be stopping. Management is just cruel over there. According to Tilton, the only way to save money is to cut the employees pension, not lower his 1.2 million dollar salary.

My sincerest apologies to anyone I've offended.
 
WMUSIGPI said:
Wow I may have to change my bet of next airline to fold from USAir to United if they do walk. Seriously I do wish everyone the best, I don't want to see anyone loose thier livelyhood. Though I could make an exception for some of these chuckleheads running the show.

You may even want to consider DAL leapfrogging these two toward liquid.
 
miles otoole said:
You may even want to consider DAL leapfrogging these two toward liquid.

Thanks Miles. Ok, what? Doubtful, we still have options available currently.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Dodge--very few federal employees outside the post office and military have pensions anymore. Most everyone who began federal service since reagan is on an overglorified 401k called FERS.

They also have no dental insurance--except for the letter carriers who have their own insurance plans.
 
ERfly said:
I'm not. This sucks for United and all it's employees. I'm not real sure how my post got misinterpreted. I don't even work for the company and I'm pissed that Tilton gets a guaranteed 4.5 million dollar pension. I sincerely hope for the best for each and every one of United's employees. They've been put through hell and it doesn't seem to be stopping. Management is just cruel over there. According to Tilton, the only way to save money is to cut the employees pension, not lower his 1.2 million dollar salary.

My sincerest apologies to anyone I've offended.

not to defend tilton the terrible, but his pension is not guaranteed (IRS 415 limits his max pension to roughly 140k pre pbgc reduction). the remainder is in a non-qualified plan that makes up the difference between his calculated benefit and his guaranteed benefit.

its all a joke though as the unguaranteed portion will most likely be paid as the directors typically have a pension themselves.
 
I'm just going by what I saw on ABC tonight. I wasn't really sure how true or accurate it was myself.
 
Player:
Alex, I will take business 101 for $200

Jeoperdy host:
Ok, we have a warning of a chapter 11 filing.
A liquidation rumor, or two, or three
A potential strike
An incident


Player:
Ah, Alex, what is just another tuesday in the airline industry.

Jeopordy host:
You are correct.
 
Inconceivable said:
Dodge--very few federal employees outside the post office and military have pensions anymore. Most everyone who began federal service since reagan is on an overglorified 401k called FERS.

They also have no dental insurance--except for the letter carriers who have their own insurance plans.

This is true. I know that it is a tough day for all those at United to have their retirements scrapped. Actually it is devastating.
 
They won't strike.

I can imagine how upset the employees at UAL must be but I don't see strikes coming. I predict that the judge will allow the management to do whatever they want to do and the destruction of the contracts will be next unless the unions agree to go along peacfully and sign concessionary deals. The unions will make a lot of noise and threats but in the end I don't think there will be strikes. As ridiculous as it sounds I think that the courts will rule any strikes illegal because of the Railway labor act even though the RLA was violated by the company by not maintaining status quo until exhausting the process. I believe the courts will rule that the bankruptcy laws supercede the RLA when necessary to protect a corporation and that the RLA still applies to prevent work stoppages to protect the same corporations. The courts are an extension of the government and the government is all about protecting corporations and the people who run them and reducing and/or eliminating the influence of organized labor. Once this ruling is made the unions won't be able to take the risk of supporting a strike for liability reasons. Couple this ruling with an NMB that will no longer release unions from mediation and you have what airline management has always wanted, the effective end of union bargaining power in the airline industry.

I also think that, in the end, most of the employees would rather have jobs than no jobs; or at least have jobs while they look for other jobs. Everybody likes to talk tough until they come face to face with the prospect of havng no job, no income, no benefits and having to find another job and start all over. I also think that for many employees, even after all of the pay and benefit cuts, they may find it difficult to find a comparable or better job. This is different than a strike against a profitable corporation where everybody knows a deal will be reached and things will eventually return to normal. UAL is on the brink and a work stoppage could interrupt the cash flow and result in the final ending for the company.
 
Now the only guranteed pensions are public school teachers....
 
Not going to strike.

Most of these people are are 40+ in age now and are career employees with kids, houses and no where else to go.

This would not be a normal strike. IF it were a normal strike, I would say it was a done deal. In a normal strike, when it is over, you have a job to come back to.

What is different about this one, is that all of these senior people know that if they strike, the airline, and their jobs will probably cease to exist. You will have 20 year + mechanics applying to be a TSA screener. The flight attendants will have to go back to Denny's.

Don't get me wrong. I really do wish them the best of luck. In the end though, I don't think they will have the testicular fortitude to pull the trigger. Want to wager on it?
 
Saw a news report here in Chicago yesterday outside the courtroom where the proceedings are going on. 94% strike approval by IAM, every single one of them interviews says they'll walk.....they've just plain and simple had enough.

However, FA's are a different story. Senior ones want to walk, junior ones don't. I guess the junior ones figure they've got more to lose. Talked to an FA staying at my hotel last night, and in her words, she 'doesn't know', so that probably means no. I'd look for MX to walk, FA's to not. But if either of them walks, United is F--KED.
 
AviatorTx said:
Not going to strike.

Most of these people are are 40+ in age now and are career employees with kids, houses and no where else to go.
They may be a little older but I would not characterize them as a group that has no where else to go. Smart, creative people have a variety of options if they will look beyond flying around from A to B and back again for an airline. Sometime you have to tell people to go to hell regardless of the consequences. Having been in those shoes before I think this is one of those times.
 
WhiteCloud,

I hope you are right. Good luck to them.

My bet is that it won't happen though.
 
AviatorTx said:
WhiteCloud,

I hope you are right. Good luck to them.

My bet is that it won't happen though.

I imagine that they have their price in mind as to what would make staying worthwhile. I don't have a strong betting position on what they will do. I'm quite sure if they don't walk that the discouraged workforce will ultimately eat UAL alive. Human nature will have them getting back at UAL in all sorts of passive aggressive ways. I don't think UAL can survive that either.
 

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