Will of ALPA Pilots?

[PCL_128]

Rez... I don't know about others, but I thought Prater was the man of integrity.

I was wrong.

You know, there was a guy on this message board who kept telling all of you that Captain Woerth was the right guy and Prater was just a joke, but no one would listen. Who was that guy? I think he had an anti-RJDC avatar or something. Who was that....

 

[TWA69]

If Alpa doesn't care about the vote then I say we just stop paying the dues. I have had enough of ALPA'S bull@hit!!!!!!

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I have had enough of ALPA'S bull@hit!!!!!!

That deserved an encore

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You know, there was a guy on this message board who kept telling all of you that Captain Woerth was the right guy and Prater was just a joke, but no one would listen. Who was that guy? I think he had an anti-RJDC avatar or something. Who was that....

I think ALPA does a poor job at times letting the members know what all is being done... but it really comes down to the membership and thier choice to remain aloof....

Prater, whether the right guy or not, was elected by last minute deals so the UAL guys could get thier "guy" elected... Thier plan failed miserable but it worked for the CAL guys...

Instead of being custodians for the profession, the UAL and CAL guys went for "getting one of our own elected."

Many ALPA pilots measure the success of the President and Association by very local means...thier own. With independent contractor mentalities ALPA members expect personal service. Of course ALPA sucks when personal relativity is down. However, the collective is rarley placed in context, yet the collective is where the strength and foundation is....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If Alpa doesn't care about the vote then I say we just stop paying the dues. I have had enough of ALPA'S bull@hit!!!!!!

and you are just fine with market forces, poor mangement, gov't policy and industry evolution....

 

[TWA69]

and you are just fine with market forces, poor mangement, gov't policy and industry evolution....

NO, But I am paying ALPA and if ALPA has a vote and the majority of the people who vote do so in a certain way, than ALPA should fight for that cause! I would step back and support ALPA if my views were not in line with the majority of voters. But when an organization that is funded by it's members decides that it will go against the majority and blatently disregard the democratic process. The only way I can see to protest is by withholding my dues. I suppose I could call someone and state my opinion but I thought that was what the poll was for, evidently that was just another waste of my dues paying dollar. We get screwed by the goverment, management and the industry, and I can accept that because I enjoy the abuse. But now the one group of people who are suppose to be on my side are again giving it to me up the rear. THANK YOU ALPA, BUT I WILL NOT TAKE ANOTHER!!!!

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Ya, I'm kind of with him. Prater should be on the news every day explaining the process, and his direction for the ALPA, which gave him a chance. The way I see it, he's doing nothing.

Hey Rez, I thought about your statement "we could only get 101 pilots to show up at the DC rally". I got the code-a-phone call a couple of days before the event. I was starting a trip. If this guy had any agenda, we knew about, or a website that wasn't just an advertisement for ALPA, I'd have a chance to show up. It's pathetic that the membership won't show up, but, If we have no idea what's happening, how can we be ready? I give Prater a little time for being new, but it's out of control now. One of the biggest changes in our Century is trying to be jammed down our throats with no communication from him.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

NO, But I am paying ALPA and if ALPA has a vote and the majority of the people who vote do so in a certain way, than ALPA should fight for that cause! I would step back and support ALPA if my views were not in line with the majority of voters. But when an organization that is funded by it's members decides that it will go against the majority and blatently disregard the democratic process. The only way I can see to protest is by withholding my dues. I suppose I could call someone and state my opinion but I thought that was what the poll was for, evidently that was just another waste of my dues paying dollar. We get screwed by the goverment, management and the industry, and I can accept that because I enjoy the abuse. But now the one group of people who are suppose to be on my side are again giving it to me up the rear. THANK YOU ALPA, BUT I WILL NOT TAKE ANOTHER!!!!

Here is a big problem.... we are content with other organizations screwing us... is that ok? Acceptable? I say no. you say yes.

You are looking at the issue from a black and white airmanship lens. What about the political lens.

Finally, if you reject representation... then what do you suggest?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ya, I'm kind of with him. Prater should be on the news every day explaining the process, and his direction for the ALPA, which gave him a chance. The way I see it, he's doing nothing.

Hey Rez, I thought about your statement "we could only get 101 pilots to show up at the DC rally". I got the code-a-phone call a couple of days before the event. I was starting a trip. If this guy had any agenda, we knew about, or a website that wasn't just an advertisement for ALPA, I'd have a chance to show up. It's pathetic that the membership won't show up, but, If we have no idea what's happening, how can we be ready? I give Prater a little time for being new, but it's out of control now. One of the biggest changes in our Century is trying to be jammed down our throats with no communication from him.

Your reply has contridictions.

Why do you have no idea? You got a code a phone & website brief. You knew about it...

Is it possible you didn't understand what was going on? There for you were a bit gun shy? Being disengaged from the political process only to try and connect during the 7th inning will yield..what is going on...

You admit the membership should've shown up, but you hint you don't know why....

Could that mean it is time to start getting more involved and asking questions...??

 

[TheBaron]

A scab is a replacement worker. When some pilot chooses to work past age 60 they are no less a replacement worker than if there were a strike. Doubt it? Just ask the one being replaced!.

What else could this be more like? Is it like a merger? Let's see: One group has aircraft, seats, longevity, and career expectations. That's the under 60 group. The other group, the over 60 crowd, only has longevity. They have no planes or seats and they definitly have no career expectations. Zero! Now, how usually does this get awarded by a judge in this situation? Answer: The over 60 group gets nothing! Bottom of the list, and rightfully so. They have ZERO career expectations. BUT, is that what is happening? Is that the reality? NO! they want full seniority to the detriment of every pilot junior AND senior to them. They want to screw everybody. There's no better example of a replacement worker.

Now think about this a bit, don't just blurt something stupid out again. If you need some help understanding this just ask nicely.

So by your own admission, a 58 year old pushing for a change to age 60 has a justifiable expectation in determining his own career path and retirement.

Do you really think this is being pushed by pilots that are already over 60?
What airline do you work for that will furlough (replace) pilots to keep a crewmember that works past age 60? First there aren't that many airlines that still have FE's, the only group of over 60's still flying. Who says they will get to automatically displace a junior crewmember in the absence of a bid? Yes it will slow down hiring (initially) and yes it will slow down career progression (initially) but it certainly won't cause people to lose their jobs, unless your airline has totally mismanaged its hiring.

WTF Dudette, step away from the bottle. That doesn't even make sense.

I'll continue to let you be the one that "blurts something stupid." You seem to have mastered it.

 

[Andy]

Ok, I'm asking you. I happen to agree with you that ALPA screwed up on this issue, but how does that affect your feelings about crossing a picket line? ALPA's leadership screwed up, so now you think it's ok to SCAB and screw over your fellow pilots? Please explain.

ALPA's no longer an effective union; hasn't been for quite a while.
It's now all about the individual and their self-interest, not the collective.

As for my post.
Did I post it in anger? Yes.
Do I care anymore if someone crossed a picket line? Not anymore; there's no difference in that self-serving behavior and what has occurred at ALPA national.
Will I cross a picket line? No; I'd rather walk away from this self-centered business than act in such a dishonorable manner.
Is a labor strike effective anymore? I don't know; let me ask a Northwest mechanic.
Anyone think that the same can't happen to pilots? I don't know; let me ask a GoJets pilot.
Do I care anymore what GoJets pilots have done? Not anymore; there's no difference in that self-serving behavior and what has occurred at ALPA national.

There, does that explain my change in feeling toward crossing a picket line?

 

[Andy]

He made the threat. I think he can take up for himself. And when an over 60 F/O or Captain tells me he is going to be a scab, I will jack him up too.

Obviously, a lot of misinterpretation of my statemtent on this thread. I did not mean to imply that I would personally cross a picket line; poorly written on my part. However, I no longer care about others who crossed picket lines. It's ops normal among pilots to screw each other over.

Bottom line: I'll no longer carry a scab list or bother shunning them. I don't find their behavior much different than what many of my fellow non-picket line crossing pilots are doing to this occupation; it's no longer a profession.

 

[Cadillac]

I want to see the survey results too.

I don't think there was anything "clever" about ALPA's methods in going about changing their stance. Every question on that survey amounted to "because the age 60 rule is changing, don't you want ALPA involved?" Of course we want ALPA involved, but we don't want them to FACILITATE CHANGING THE RULE. This whole mess is the result of the senior leadership ignoring the votes of the majority and doing what THEY want to do. I'm taking off my ALPA pin.

 

[pylut]

I think ALPA does a poor job.

Now there is a statemet I can agree 100% with you on. Pardon me if I didn't read past your first line here, I figured it was probably just more of the same.....blah blah blah, alpa alpa rah rah rah.

I think if you could manage to keep this post to just 7 words it would have been one of your best.