Will EJA and EJI Merge Operations?

[GVFlyer]

Here are some interesting facts:

Published Company inventory of G-IV and G-V aircraft.

Nov 2002 45 G-IVs / 9 G-Vs
Nov 2003 35 G-IVs/ 8 G-Vs

Shrinking fleet?

11 fewer Gulfstreams in 12 months or a 20% reduction in the Gulfstream fleet.

What do you make of that?

I'd say that going to 3 Boeings from 8 ordered and 6 delivered is either a 62.5% or 50% reduction in fleet depending in how you want to do the math.

This is really no surprize- 2003 was not a record setting year for large aircraft sales. This industry, just like airlines, tends to lag the economy during recoveries. Gulfstream will deliver 75 airplanes in 2004, up 11 from 2003.

It's not like Gulfstream is going to be crying into our collective pillows over NetJets breaking up with Boeing. Contracting with them to begin with was a violation of Gulfstream's original contract with NetJets which set forth that NetJets would not enter into any purchase agreements with any other large cabin competitors of Gulfstream's. But what are you going to do? Not sell aircraft to your largest customer?

Semper Fi, Marine.

GV

 

[Schrode]

Sometimes I wonder why people get so uptight about this. Seems to me, if there is a "merger" it will be a decision of the Company. Assuming a merger takes place, all the pilots will then vote as to how the senority list will read. Simple enough.

How many pilots with NJI? How many with NJA? My guess THAT will be the final decision maker. Fortunately/Unfortunately there IS strength in NUMBERS.

 

[Diesel]

the only way you could go past 14hrs is if you were doing operations not including flight. Like airlining home. They would have to pay you too. It is also only up to the pilot if he wants to extend. Nobody does it though because you can get the extra "after midnight" pay because they were unable to get you home in 14hrs.

I've had to go past 14 but I really needed to get home so it was no big deal. I missed the 2 exteneded days (after midnight) but it was a tradeoff.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Wow...lots of issues.....

It has been said the best merger is when both sides are completely unhappy.

Look at the long term and high road... Don't get wrapped up in the small issues....

All easier said than done....

I've discussed on a couple of occaisons that Gulstream in SAV doesn't want organized labor flying their airplanes... One reason is rest/work rules requirements controlling design of the aircraft and operational specifications.... Yes, no is that just plain craaaazy!!?

Anyone?

 

[transpac]

There's nothing in the Netjets contract that prohibits working beyond 14 hours. The prohibition is against FLYING beyond the 14th duty hour and being INVOLUNTARILY assigned any other duty beyond 14 hours. The company routinely pays overtime beyond 14 hours for post flight duties. I can't imagine anyone walking off and leaving passengers to fend for themselves, regardless of the overtime issues involved.

 

[Live4flyng]

Aren't you allowed to extend your duty day over 14 up to 16 with compensatory rest?

No, there is no compensatory rest, only a reward of show at legal (10 hours later).

Getting back to the original question that started all this: How would I [the pilots] like a merger? Well, let me see. I get to join a union, pay union dues, and in exchange, I lose my Gulfstream seat, take a pay cut, work with folks who are so concerned about their union work rules that they care nothing about owner staisfaction (e.g. walking off a jet full of owners because your duty day was going to extend 15 MINUTES, and leaving them there as we walked up to ask them where their crew had gone..."They went to the hotel!"), and generally dislike management.

Someone has fooled you about the union at NJA. Owner satisfaction is at the top of everyone's list. Given the volume of PART 135 trips on a daily basis, it is ILLEGAL to accept a trip beyond 14 hours of duty under PART 135. The crew has to go to the hotel at that point. No argument to be had, NJA would be better off without a merger of NJI.

I've discussed on a couple of occaisons that Gulstream in SAV doesn't want organized labor flying their airplanes... One reason is rest/work rules requirements controlling design of the aircraft and operational specifications.... Yes, no is that just plain craaaazy!!?

Gulfstream doesn't have a say on who gets to fly the GWIZ after the sale. Unless they just don't care about selling airplanes.

 

[Live4flyng]

CE750driver

Uhh, lets see, this year you may be right, I had a baby and wanted to stay home.... last year 68 extended days. Think $526 a day not including per diem or overtime, plus my base pay. This year in the non BBJ guys, one was over 200 grand, and alot (I think about 20 or so) were over 120. All our BBJ guys were around 200. MMMMM. Teamsters do suck, and you must have a dream corporate gig Yak. But like you said, green apples to red apples. When will we IBT guys learn.

Don't short yourself, one extended day is $555.59.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Executive Jet Management, they're non-union too, aren't they?

EJM is a wholly owned subsidiary of Netjets, just like NJI. The difference is, EJM handles the sell-offs for Netjets. They screen 135 operators around the country and use them to do sell-off trips on many of the peak demand days for Netjets. EJM also manages airplanes for individual owners much like a charter company and lists them on EJM's 135 certificate. Their call sign is "Jet Speed". EJM does maintenance for Netjets all over the country. They have mechanics that travel around with their tool boxes on a 7/7 schedule to fix broken airplanes in the middle of nowhere.

 

[CatYaaak]

There's nothing in the Netjets contract that prohibits working beyond 14 hours. The prohibition is against FLYING beyond the 14th duty hour and being INVOLUNTARILY assigned any other duty beyond 14 hours. The company routinely pays overtime beyond 14 hours for post flight duties. I can't imagine anyone walking off and leaving passengers to fend for themselves, regardless of the overtime issues involved.

You answered my next question. I can see that if scheduling screwed up and tried to cut it too tight and they dutied out and therefore had to hand them off to some other crew, fine, but from the original story it sounded like the crew just up and left the the pax sitting there. If they were going to go fly when they found out they were going to exceed 14, they must have had duty time left where they could have babysat, and if they were at the end of the day, from what you're saying they could have gone into overtime to do it and get paid. Either way they sound like wankers for pulling a disappearing act.

 

[transpac]

Precisely, Mr. Yaaack!
Actually the crew would've already been on overtime. It starts after 12 hours, except on day-one of a tour when it starts after 9 hours.

 

[Diesel]

Here's an example from a duty day

Show at 7 for an airline. (1st day 4/4 of OT prior to 8am)

Airlined and flew for 12hrs total of duty (12/4's of OT for duty after 9hrs on first day)

On late for ops, mx issues and a bunch of other things total duty by the time we got to hotel 15hrs. (another 12/4's of OT)

All this for a grand total of over 300 bucks of OT on our first day. We only flew for 12hrs but we were on late for op's past 14 which we get paid for (not flying a plane).

I've brokendown before and waited with the pax till the new crew shows up. Went past 14 waiting around. Keeps the owners from feeling left alone, having a direct line of comunication to the company. I can't offer much but I can make sure to keep the fire's lit under the people upstairs. New crew came, helped them load the bags and make the transition for the owners much smoother.

I would never leave an owner in limbo. It's not right and it's not the way to keep them happy. Remember this is a customer oriented buisness.