why you put up with all the b.s.

[trip]

Hardly. It's young punks like you who whored themselves out by accepting jobs with peanuts for pay just to build "jet time". Management took great advantage too. How many RJs replaced mainline routes?

Let me guess WSO right? That's why your stuck schlepping the boss's bags while your buds are piloting 777's across the pond.

 

[LJDRVR]

the 60's and 70's gone...but not forgotten. This career is OVER!

Speak for yourself. Flying is still magic.

 

[JohnQ]

Nothing on that list will pay your bills.

Good luck paying bills with emotions.

Like a stupid T-shirt I once saw said: "If you are bound and determined not to succeed, no one is going to stop you."

Let a guy reminisce. You can be ecstatically miserable on your own time.

 

[CA1900]

I know first officers making $23/hour that are afraid to get furloughed. I cannot figure out why. There is not a job out there that pays less.

There are a lot of jobs that pay less than that.

 

[Donsa320]

where on my profile does it show I PFT'd or flew for free/peanuts.

I started as an instructor in the Navy Flying Club. Then on to a 135 airline as an FO then CA. Then to the commuters as an FO and CA then to a Major. I never flew for free or PFT'd.

yes the smaller aircraft paid "low" wages but I suppose your generation demanded 747 wages to start in a Beech 18 or DC-3 right?

I have to agree with you. I hear this whining all the time. Everyone should be flying big airplanes seems to be the theme.

In the "old " days the vast, vast majority of the airline pilots in this country flew 40 seat airplanes. Martin 202 and 404's, Convair 240/340/440's and even some of the 4 engine stuff were not that big. The DC-4's and Viscounts were 40 to 50 seat airplanes. I started in 1959 in DC-3's and Convair 340's at $450 a month and all the gum I could chew. $550 second year and increment pay in the 3rd year which came out to about $650 a month. I had come out of the USAF as a 1st Lt. at $1500 a month so you get the idea. Finally after 8 years I made DC-3 Captain and got about $1250 a month for 85 hours a month flight time. That was NOT a lot of money even in those days. Pay was based on pegged speed, gross weight and mileage. In other words, "productivity". The bigger and faster the airplane, the higher the hourly rate would go. Night time paid more as it was deemed more of a hazard.
I despise the fee for departure scheme and was against it from the start. Scope should have been iron clad. But the AA "B" scale made that impossible. To avoid a "B" scale on the main line the commuters took its place. Big mistake.
Anyway that is the way I see it and remember it.

Merry Christmas

 

[febtober]

it amazes me that a thread like this can fall apart into 'we deserve more' so quickly.
This morning i got the best gift in years. Great tailwinds to bring me home on Christmas morning.

 

[SoCentralRain]

You tell me what jobs we should take? the only starter jobs are regionals.

Sorry. Gotta call BS on that one. I flight instructed for 5 YEARS in the late 80's/early 90's before moving on to my first pt.135 gig flying cancelled checks. THEN on to the regionals, et. al.

To say that flying for Gulfstream or Expressjet or Pinnacle is "all that's out there" is hogwash. You wanna instruct? Go do it.
Don't wanna? Huh. I kinda figured that.

Anyway, the first post in this thread is very nostalgic and I agree with so many of the examples. Sadly, I won't see so many others either unless things turn around.

SCR

ps Merry Christmas all

 

[30West]

Most of you have completely missed the point of the thread. FI at it's best.

Happy Holidays, miserable bitter souls.

 

[pipe]

Speak for yourself. Flying is still magic.

Here's some perspective for you.

http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/200...-flight-wi-fi-griping-travelers/?mod=yahoo_hs

 

[Widow's Son]

I haven't made less than 200k for over 10 years.
A week's vacation is at least 2.5 weeks of time off and I get 5 weeks of vacation a year, or almost every other month.
I say the above not to brag, but to encourage future generations to not listen to the boo-birds.
Take heart from success stories like I did when times were bleak.
Whiners have been around since the coin toss between Wilbur and Orville.
When I started flying over 30 years ago, one instructor was a furloughed airline pilot who tried his best to discourage me. I almost bought it and lost precious years due to getting discouraged and sidetracked and not believing that my dream was attainable. A friend of mine did buy it and has been miserable ever since.
When I started flying professionally over 20 years ago, some of the Captains I flew with said the industry was a dead end.
Every job I have ever taken in this industry was a pay cut, but was taken for a better future. At every step I left guys behind who thought I was nuts but I now pay more in taxes than they make.
My wife out earned me my first five years in the industry, and now she'll never have to work.

Most guys fly because of passion. We were cursed with it at birth. True aviators will never be happy doing anything else.

Don't give in to the naysayers. When the front door closes, go around to the back. There will always be prime jobs in our industry. The more the boo-birds talk each other into surrender, the more room there will be for those who follow their dreams and believe in themselves.

Happy Holidays.

 

[Murphy]

Nice post chjack. I enjoyed reading the list. Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[bravodude]

Hardly. It's young punks like you who whored themselves out by accepting jobs with peanuts for pay just to build "jet time". Management took great advantage too. How many RJs replaced mainline routes?

I dont think so old man, if the "major" airline pilots had put a stop to it in the begining and did not allow the rj's to be farmed out to the regionals we would not be having this conversation.

 

[LearLove]

I haven't made less than 200k for over 10 years.
A week's vacation is at least 2.5 weeks of time off and I get 5 weeks of vacation a year, or almost every other month.
I say the above not to brag, but to encourage future generations to not listen to the boo-birds.
Take heart from success stories like I did when times were bleak.
Whiners have been around since the coin toss between Wilbur and Orville.
When I started flying over 30 years ago, one instructor was a furloughed airline pilot who tried his best to discourage me. I almost bought it and lost precious years due to getting discouraged and sidetracked and not believing that my dream was attainable. A friend of mine did buy it and has been miserable ever since.
When I started flying professionally over 20 years ago, some of the Captains I flew with said the industry was a dead end.
Every job I have ever taken in this industry was a pay cut, but was taken for a better future. At every step I left guys behind who thought I was nuts but I now pay more in taxes than they make.
My wife out earned me my first five years in the industry, and now she'll never have to work.

Most guys fly because of passion. We were cursed with it at birth. True aviators will never be happy doing anything else.

Don't give in to the naysayers. When the front door closes, go around to the back. There will always be prime jobs in our industry. The more the boo-birds talk each other into surrender, the more room there will be for those who follow their dreams and believe in themselves.

Happy Holidays.

I agree but 20 years ago this bizz was way diff. There wasn't the massive outsourcing there is today. There were many small commuters where you got your time and moved on. Now there are regionals with 2000+ pilots and pay over 100K. The mainlines are 1/2 the size of what the once were. Nobody at the top cares about the junior guys. The senior guys (read baby boomers) at my airline would selll us junior guys down the street in a heartbeat for an extra dime.

You mentioned when one door closes....

in your day that ment going to the next airline and trying there (pounding the pavement), in this day when the front door closes instead of going to the back door the 2000 pilot regional votes in paycuts to undercut the next guy and get growth and kill mainline jobs.

 

[vtwo]

There are a lot of jobs that pay less than that.

WHAT REALLY?
23$ per hour in airplanes. come on Man, your being fooled by the number.
$23 per hr x 75hr month equals $1731.00 per month.
before taxes are deducted.
In a Full time work week at 40 hrs that works to $10.81 per hour.
Now go Bag my produce in your spare time to pay your rent.

LOOK AT THE REAL PAY. don't be fooled by magic numbers.

 

[Ratherbsurfing]

Most of you have completely missed the point of the thread. FI at it's best.

Happy Holidays, miserable bitter souls.

Exactly. There are still plenty of pilots seeing those things daily and appreciating them. I just hope when i'm experiencing them I don't have one of the FI miserable bitter souls next to me diminishing my enjoyment.

 

[skywdriver]

I haven't made less than 200k for over 10 years.
A week's vacation is at least 2.5 weeks of time off and I get 5 weeks of vacation a year, or almost every other month.
I say the above not to brag, but to encourage future generations to not listen to the boo-birds.
Take heart from success stories like I did when times were bleak.
Whiners have been around since the coin toss between Wilbur and Orville.
When I started flying over 30 years ago, one instructor was a furloughed airline pilot who tried his best to discourage me. I almost bought it and lost precious years due to getting discouraged and sidetracked and not believing that my dream was attainable. A friend of mine did buy it and has been miserable ever since.
When I started flying professionally over 20 years ago, some of the Captains I flew with said the industry was a dead end.
Every job I have ever taken in this industry was a pay cut, but was taken for a better future. At every step I left guys behind who thought I was nuts but I now pay more in taxes than they make.
My wife out earned me my first five years in the industry, and now she'll never have to work.

Most guys fly because of passion. We were cursed with it at birth. True aviators will never be happy doing anything else.

Don't give in to the naysayers. When the front door closes, go around to the back. There will always be prime jobs in our industry. The more the boo-birds talk each other into surrender, the more room there will be for those who follow their dreams and believe in themselves.

Happy Holidays.

I thought that was a great post. Each generation has their own set of problems to deal with, and each generation before will say its not the same as it used to be. But this profession is not alone in that sense. Glad things worked out in your favor! Cheers

 

[vtwo]

Your right about the views.
I enjoyed the view of the Nile this morning and the Pyramids from about 5 thousand feet.
How ever that cost me my Christmas time with my kids and wife.
every thing has a cost and reward, just finding the balance is the tricky part.
in the past it was do your time, take the low pay for a while, then make it up on the other end.
well after 15 years at one airline then it goes TU.
How do I start over and support a family on 20 grand a year.
yes the view is nice but Christmas with the kids would have been better.

Take a walk in My shoes.
The view is different.
Good luck to you, Hope it does not happen to anyone else but it will.

 

[hockeypilot44]

I think most of us take our chances hoping nothing bad will ever happen to us. I know I am hoping to go through my career furlough-free. I'm currently at Northwest and just over 200 from the bottom of the new Delta seniority list. I spent about four years at a regional. Two years in the right seat and almost two in the left. That being said, if I get furloughed, it is not the end of the world. Until you actually get furloughed, it does not seem like a real threat.

 

[J.Otto]

the seniorty system should be fixed up bigtime. the way airlines fold, its disgusting to have to start at the bottom on rsv for a fraction of pay. why is this not fixed? most ly casue the airlines wont allow the govt th change the law as it only serves the airline, not the pilot. to top it off, you cant even strike ... this all smells prett ybad.

 

[JumpersAway]

your right they can't take it away from "us" because your "lack of sight", "me, me, me" baby boomer generation did a good job of f'ing it up for all of us that come after you.

That post is bulls**t. You could take it back, but arent' willing to pay the price to do so. Because of your "mememememe" mentality, you are going to sit around and bitch while you wait on someone else to "take it back" for you. You have the ability to change it, so why don't you, along with the brothers you share the cockpit with at your own airline?